By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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1 peter 1.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Yep he bought theirs also
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Sorry I get what you mean now .
1 cor 2 .
Heres why , notice verse 8
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
If the disciples had known then the devil would have known . .Jesus tells them so that when the time had come " Then they remembered He said those things " Luke 24 .8
And they remembered his words,
Satan would never have christ crucified if he knew why he would die,
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Who said anything about those things

they were not saved by the law or earning their salvation, niether will tribulation saints.
They could lose salvation was the point . As will those will also if they take the mark of the beast during the trib . Eternal security is only now . Thats why the folks who hold to loss of salvation mess this up using verses from the wrong period .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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They could lose salvation was the point . As will those will also if they take the mark of the beast during the trib .
Then they were saved by works and not faith

your form of dispensationalism is dangerous my friend. You will have people in the trib trying to earn salvation. Ot look to christ in faith like we do,
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Then they were saved by works and not faith

your form of dispensationalism is dangerous my friend. You will have people in the trib trying to earn salvation. Ot look to christ in faith like we do,
Since when did the sacrifices take away sins ? they were only forgiven but not yet redeemed .
Would they have been forgiven if they did not do the sacrifices? was everyone saved in the OT ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Then they were saved by works and not faith

your form of dispensationalism is dangerous my friend. You will have people in the trib trying to earn salvation. Ot look to christ in faith like we do,
Your not supporting your view that OT saints were baptised into the body of chirst / begotten again unto a lively hope by the resurrection / sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption/ placed into the body / sins redeemed / born from above ect ? Its true Calvinists think OT saints were born again , which is another glaring error of the system.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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If their salvation was not secure they had to work for it

its not rocket science

if it is of works, it is not of grace
Salvation is always by God's grace in every period. Grace is God's part.

Man's part is to respond in faith.

As Hebrews 11 showed, its not always by faith alone, apart from works, until Paul's revelation of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Psalm 51 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. ??
He Just committed adultery and Murder . which there was no sacrifices for this .
Yep, I recall a song that is still quite popular among churches, that attempted to use this Psalms and apply it to the church today, despite Paul telling us that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

A scary song to sing for this age of grace :)

 
Jan 12, 2019
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Then they were saved by works and not faith

your form of dispensationalism is dangerous my friend. You will have people in the trib trying to earn salvation. Ot look to christ in faith like we do,
1 Peter 4
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Notice Peter even told Israel that the "righteous scarcely be saved"?

Doesn't that sound like trying to earn salvation?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Since when did the sacrifices take away sins ? they were only forgiven but not yet redeemed .
Would they have been forgiven if they did not do the sacrifices? was everyone saved in the OT ?
You forget after Babylon, there could be no sacrifices, I guess you think they all were lost?

as hebrews said, the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin. Never means never
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Your not supporting your view that OT saints were baptised into the body of chirst / begotten again unto a lively hope by the resurrection / sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption/ placed into the body / sins redeemed / born from above ect ? Its true Calvinists think OT saints were born again , which is another glaring error of the system.
I never said they were baptized into the body of Christ, their you go falsly accusing again, is that all you do When you disagree with people?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Then believe I. The bible

all men at all times were saved by grace through faith in god making a way for their salvation
My point ( again) was that in OT salvation could be lost and during the Tribulation. But not now . So those that hold to loss of salvation will be quoting a verse Either from the OT or aimed at the tribulation . Calvinism is equally confused in this area .Hence ' Lordship salvation and Perseverance of the saints.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
They could lose salvation was the point . As will those will also if they take the mark of the beast during the trib . Eternal security is only now . Thats why the folks who hold to loss of salvation mess this up using verses from the wrong period .
I disagree.

No one looses salvation if that is what you are stating since it is a bit unclear.
The bible never speaks of anyone being spiritually unjustified. .. eternal security is eternal not a temporal status.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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My point ( again) was that in OT salvation could be lost and during the Tribulation. But not now . So those that hold to loss of salvation will be quoting a verse Either from the OT or aimed at the tribulation . Calvinism is equally confused in this area .Hence ' Lordship salvation and Perseverance of the saints.
Yes I know

if salvation can be lost it must be earned, hence you teach a salvation of works,

sorry man, if the shoe fits.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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So if I say salvation without works, it means salvation without works present

Am I still saved, according to your view?
My "view" doesn't really matter in eternity's perspective. But I do know that James says that a faith without works is a dead faith. And I do not suppose that a dead faith will save a person.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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My "view" doesn't really matter in eternity's perspective. But I do know that James says that a faith without works is a dead faith. And I do not suppose that a dead faith will save a person.
In that case, you also don't believe that faith, apart from works, can save you right?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Where did I say anything about ' grace ' . I said the Holy spirit was not sealing people until the day of redemption in the OT . No one was born again in the OT . Unless you have some verses ? The resurrection hadn't happened yet for those things to happen .
No one was redeemed in the OT because they were able to keep the law. Hebrews 11 connects their journey to faith - looking forward to Christ. The sacrifices did not "atone" for sin, but "covered" their sins until the perfect Lamb came and satisfied God.