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Mar 14, 2011
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Next time your in a discussion with someone who believes in Loss of / conditional salvation take note of how many OT passages they quote at you . Especially Ezekiel.
Next time you want to scream at calvinists. Take not that you believe in a works based gospel yourself

abraham believed god and it was imputes to him righteousness? whos righteousness whas imputed? Satans?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Next time you want to scream at calvinists. Take not that you believe in a works based gospel yourself

abraham believed god and it was imputes to him righteousness? whos righteousness whas imputed? Satans?
I've said over and over again that we are sealed by the Holy Spirt until we mess up ...no until the day of redemption. Thats as secure as a verse I can find .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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It’s just your feeling that they can so looks like a stalemate

i will entrust god To empower them
clearly people are saved during the Tribulation and clearly we have free will ,which I assumed you believed in . But all of a sudden believers have no free will in the trib ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
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It’s just your feeling that they can so looks like a stalemate

i will entrust god To empower them
Did Paul trust the corinithians to be empowered not to behave the way they did . Carnally , sleeping with his mother in law . You think some believers won't take the Mark of the beast ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
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Next time you want to scream at calvinists. Take not that you believe in a works based gospel yourself

abraham believed god and it was imputes to him righteousness? whos righteousness whas imputed? Satans?
I believe Abraham is secure because its said he died in Faith not having seen the promises but seeing them a far off ect . Hebrews 11 .
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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After read a lot of Calvin believer, seem to me they believe after accepting Jesus, killing, robing etc only lose the reward but not lose the salvation.

They don't believe all jesus teaching

They don't believe the branch that not bear fruit will be cut and burn, so they accused Jesus lie

They don't believe killer, thieves and adulterer go to hell

So they don't believe 1 cor 6:9-11, to them Paul is lie.

I talk to Calvinist friend about 1 cor 6:9-11 she said that verse is for non believer.

So for non believer killing will bring them to hell, but not for believer

For believer God lower the standard,

Because Jesus cover believer sin.

For Believer killing is ok, only lose the reward.

I never read that 1 cor 6:9-11 only for non believer.
Non believer go to hell just because they are not accept Christ.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
1,462
113
After read a lot of Calvin believer, seem to me they believe after accepting Jesus, killing, robing etc only lose the reward but not lose the salvation.

They don't believe all jesus teaching

They don't believe the branch that not bear fruit will be cut and burn, so they accused Jesus lie

They don't believe killer, thieves and adulterer go to hell

So they don't believe 1 cor 6:9-11, to them Paul is lie.

I talk to Calvinist friend about 1 cor 6:9-11 she said that verse is for non believer.

So for non believer killing will bring them to hell, but not for believer

For believer God lower the standard,

Because Jesus cover believer sin.

For Believer killing is ok, only lose the reward.

I never read that 1 cor 6:9-11 only for non believer.
Non believer go to hell just because they are not accept Christ.
After read a lot of Calvin believer, seem to me they believe after accepting Jesus, killing, robing etc only lose the reward but not lose the salvation.

They don't believe all jesus teaching

They don't believe the branch that not bear fruit will be cut and burn, so they accused Jesus lie

They don't believe killer, thieves and adulterer go to hell

So they don't believe 1 cor 6:9-11, to them Paul is lie.

I talk to Calvinist friend about 1 cor 6:9-11 she said that verse is for non believer.

So for non believer killing will bring them to hell, but not for believer

For believer God lower the standard,

Because Jesus cover believer sin.

For Believer killing is ok, only lose the reward.

I never read that 1 cor 6:9-11 only for non believer.
Non believer go to hell just because they are not accept Christ.
I'm not sure if they are Calvinsts you speak of , because they don't usually say things like that because of perseverance of the saints . As for 1cor 6 notice what it says . it says they were such things before they became believers . Surely you would agree sinners are able to come to Jesus ?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Next time your in a discussion with someone who believes in Loss of / conditional salvation take note of how many OT passages they quote at you . Especially Ezekiel.
Sadly, it seems to me you are changing the nature of God in the OT and NT.

If people use OT verses it is because they do not understand them in context.
Salvation has never been conditional.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
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Sadly, it seems to me you are changing the nature of God in the OT and NT.

If people use OT verses it is because they do not understand them in context.
Salvation has never been conditional.
So you are saying OSAS In the OT ? And Conditional on what ? Changing the nature of God ? How? I have not said anything about the ' nature ' of God ? No one is being sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, no one is ' born again ' in OT . Does this change the nature of God ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
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Sadly, it seems to me you are changing the nature of God in the OT and NT.

If people use OT verses it is because they do not understand them in context.
Salvation has never been conditional.
Are you saying that Moses was saved the exact same way as you ? by faith for sure ,but the same way ? the same message?Do you believe Noah the same way ? Noah was baptised into the body of Jesus , sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption ? born again ? when being born again is made possible because of the resurection ? If its all the same why did Jesus have to come ? Do you believe Abraham would be saved if Jesus never Died for sins , was buried and resurrected. No resurection no salvation for Abraham or anyone.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
1,462
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Sadly, it seems to me you are changing the nature of God in the OT and NT.

If people use OT verses it is because they do not understand them in context.
Salvation has never been conditional.
There is changes from the Old testament to the new which do not mean his ' nature ' is different . No one Died for the sins of the world in the Old testament. If salvation is exactly the same then what are you basing your eternal security on ?
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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Texas
If I abide in the vine and the vine produces fruit in me is that the work of my own abiding?
IF i fail to abide in the vine and there is no fruit, is that the work of my own actions?

Your work that connects you to His work.
Your work that lays hold of that which He laid hold of you for.
Ceasing from sin and abiding in Christ so you may begin to live the rest of your life for the Glory of God - the purpose of the Gospel according to Peter
Abide simply means to live in, so how do you live in the vine? There is no work in that, just living in Christ, you live in Christ if you believe, then you produce the fruit of believing. It's not work at all. I rest in Christ, because I believe, and believing causes me to abhor sin, because I hate sin I hate to commit sin. No work just living in his grace.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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As we have discussed recently 1 John 3:15, you can see that the apostle John was consistent in his teaching in both the gospel of John, as well as his letters to the Jews

Yes, John is definitely clear in teaching that works, especially works of love, are critical in one being saved when Jesus finally return for them.
False alert.....I hope no one reading this drivel believes it because it is false!
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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As we have discussed recently 1 John 3:15, you can see that the apostle John was consistent in his teaching in both the gospel of John, as well as his letters to the Jews

Yes, John is definitely clear in teaching that works, especially works of love, are critical in one being saved when Jesus finally return for them.
I believe the Bible tells us that works have everything to do and are intrinsic parts of our Salvation.
James 2:14-20
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.


There are obviously a number of Christians who believe works matter nothing to their Salvation. Often you'll note if you watch them or mingle with them, as I have, that it is clear why they believe that. They appear to think all they have to do is hold faith in Christ and that's it. But it isn't.
Revelation even refers to our works being assessed by God at the judgment.

Remember that verse that says, you shall know them by their fruits? ;)

God saw these people who appear not to believe works, which can be compassion, charity, are not at all interrelated to their Salvation. How are they changed from having a worldly demeanor if they don't show fruits of the indwelling holy spirit that the Bible says shall guide us unto every good work?

 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,545
1,462
113
Abide simply means to live in, so how do you live in the vine? There is no work in that, just living in Christ, you live in Christ if you believe, then you produce the fruit of believing. It's not work at all. I rest in Christ, because I believe, and believing causes me to abhor sin, because I hate sin I hate to commit sin. No work just living in his grace.
The argument usually is " well if you walk away " . Which I have no idea how that works . The sa
I believe the Bible tells us that works have everything to do and are intrinsic parts of our Salvation.
James 2:14-20
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.


There are obviously a number of Christians who believe works matter nothing to their Salvation. Often you'll note if you watch them or mingle with them, as I have, that it is clear why they believe that. They appear to think all they have to do is hold faith in Christ and that's it. But it isn't.
Revelation even refers to our works being assessed by God at the judgment.

Remember that verse that says, you shall know them by their fruits? ;)

God saw these people who appear not to believe works, which can be compassion, charity, are not at all interrelated to their Salvation. How are they changed from having a worldly demeanor if they don't show fruits of the indwelling holy spirit that the Bible says shall guide us unto every good work?

" Hold faith in Christ " could you explain what you mean please?
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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" Hold faith in Christ " could you explain what you mean please?
For me it refers to being in relationship, one, with the indwelling holy spirit that is God. When I hold faith in Christ I am taking hold of my life giver and life saver who now guides me through his will for the best in this life and in service to others serve him. Without Christ, letting loose of that faith, I am nothing. Holding to Christ, holding faith, I am able to meet the challenges this life brings because I know Christ is real and alive within me. And there are times when I hear and feel him guide me too. Some may call that intuition. But I believe it is God.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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Sadly, it seems to me you are changing the nature of God in the OT and NT.

If people use OT verses it is because they do not understand them in context.
Salvation has never been conditional.
its always been conditional. what are you saying?
Believing and acting on that belief has always been the condition.
Believing makes you right and action in faith is what saves you.
Starting with your confession of the lordship of Jesus over you life.
That you are no longer your own.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
its always been conditional. what are you saying?
Believing and acting on that belief has always been the condition.
Believing makes you right and action in faith is what saves you.
Starting with your confession of the lordship of Jesus over you life.
That you are no longer your own.
Conditional in the sense that God will take it away.