By Works

[Lion222]

I believe the Bible tells us that works have everything to do and are intrinsic parts of our Salvation.
James 2:14-20
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.


There are obviously a number of Christians who believe works matter nothing to their Salvation. Often you'll note if you watch them or mingle with them, as I have, that it is clear why they believe that. They appear to think all they have to do is hold faith in Christ and that's it. But it isn't.
Revelation even refers to our works being assessed by God at the judgment.

Remember that verse that says, you shall know them by their fruits?

God saw these people who appear not to believe works, which can be compassion, charity, are not at all interrelated to their Salvation. How are they changed from having a worldly demeanor if they don't show fruits of the indwelling holy spirit that the Bible says shall guide us unto every good work?

Amen!
Our works are what we do with His work.
Do we consider the blood of Christ and the work of Christ as such a great value that we
work in faith to ensure it was not wasted on us.
in this way we make our calling and election sure.

 

[throughfaith]

For me it refers to being in relationship, one, with the indwelling holy spirit that is God. When I hold faith in Christ I am taking hold of my life giver and life saver who now guides me through his will for the best in this life and in service to others serve him. Without Christ, letting loose of that faith, I am nothing. Holding to Christ, holding faith, I am able to meet the challenges this life brings because I know Christ is real and alive within me. And there are times when I hear and feel him guide me too. Some may call that intuition. But I believe it is God.

It was when you said some believe all they have to do is hold faith . For example ,when I read 1 cor 15 I don't see that we need to 'Hold faith to be saved '. Now of course some could believe the gosepl in vain . But if you read :
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. then Romans 10
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Then eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
I see nothing about 'holding faith ' 'working faith ' deeds ect ,to be saved ?

 

[Lion222]

Conditional in the sense that God will take it away.

OH, No God will not take it away.
Nobody can steal it from you unless you let them take you crown.
But you can throw it away.
but you would have to neglect it and consider it of no value in light of coming costs

In the end time many will fall away.
its not like fall, like oops.
Its fall like Satan fell, He decided in his heart.

 

[Guojing]

I believe the Bible tells us that works have everything to do and are intrinsic parts of our Salvation.
James 2:14-20
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.


There are obviously a number of Christians who believe works matter nothing to their Salvation. Often you'll note if you watch them or mingle with them, as I have, that it is clear why they believe that. They appear to think all they have to do is hold faith in Christ and that's it. But it isn't.
Revelation even refers to our works being assessed by God at the judgment.

Remember that verse that says, you shall know them by their fruits?

God saw these people who appear not to believe works, which can be compassion, charity, are not at all interrelated to their Salvation. How are they changed from having a worldly demeanor if they don't show fruits of the indwelling holy spirit that the Bible says shall guide us unto every good work?

Those who believe that works matter for salvation, are taking their doctrine mainly from the 4 gospels, or Hebrews to Revelations.

I agree with you that, in those books, salvation is something to be expected in the future. Israel's perspective towards salvation is precisely that. (Acts 3:19-21).

 

[Guojing]

False alert.....I hope no one reading this drivel believes it because it is false!

The entire 1 John is full of scripture about how eternal life is dependent on our love for God and our neighbours.

You can either dance around those passages and try to insert Paul into them, or you can choose to read and understand them as they literally say.

 

[EleventhHour]

OH, No God will not take it away.
Nobody can steal it from you unless you let them take you crown.
But you can throw it away.
but you would have to neglect it and consider it of no value in light of coming costs

In the end time many will fall away.
its not like fall, like oops.
Its fall like Satan fell, He decided in his heart.

Nope

You can read the Good News right here......

#5
Eternal Security posted by @dcontroversal

 

[Guojing]

Next time you want to scream at calvinists. Take not that you believe in a works based gospel yourself

abraham believed god and it was imputes to him righteousness? whos righteousness whas imputed? Satans?

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

What if Abraham only believed in God, but did not obey God to leave the land he was originally at, in Genesis 12?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

You will not by some meritorious work make God a debtor.

 

[Guojing]

Did Paul trust the corinithians to be empowered not to behave the way they did . Carnally , sleeping with his mother in law . You think some believers won't take the Mark of the beast ?

In case you have not realized, your detractors are covenant theologists.

For CTs, their doctrine regarding salvation is that it is always by faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from works, ever since Adam fell.

Thus, they have to conclude that no "true believers" will take the mark, and if they do, they will tautologically conclude that "He was never a true believer in the first place".

I have discussed this particular issue regarding the mark, at length here with them, which you might be keen on. https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-is-it-still-faith-only-for-salvation.185801/

 

[Jackson123]

I'm not sure if they are Calvinsts you speak of , because they don't usually say things like that because of perseverance of the saints . As for 1cor 6 notice what it says . it says they were such things before they became believers . Surely you would agree sinners are able to come to Jesus ?

I need your help to:

1. Where in the verse say it only when they are non believer

2. Do you believe after they are accept Christ ok to kill and only lose the reward but still go to heaven, or believer never fall in sin like killing?

 

[Chester]

Nope

You can read the Good News right here......

#5
Eternal Security posted by @dcontroversal

I actually prefer to read the good news in the Bible: and that good news is that Jesus Christ came to Earth, and lived a perfect sinless life, and gave his life for me. Then he rose from the dead with power over death and the grave. Now when I put my faith in Him I have forgiveness of sins and His power in me to live above the control of sin.

It is not good news (to me) if I have to live a life of good works to keep proving to those around me that I was really genuinely saved at a point in time in the past.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Those that are warned of being cut off are the gentle as a whole , as israel is temporarily cut off due to judicial hardening brought on by their rejection, and the gentiles are grafted in . This will change soon .
Those that are saved are known of God

[Sigh]

Same old rebuttal that all devout OSAS’ers are taught.

Hear ye what the Lord says!

Romans 11:20-22 KJV
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you are standing by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear: [21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he does not spare you also. [22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

YOU CAN BE CUT OFF WITH THE UNBELIEVERS TOO!

 

[Chester]

In case you have not realized, your detractors are covenant theologists.

For CTs, their doctrine regarding salvation is that it is always by faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from works, ever since Adam fell.

Thus, they have to conclude that no "true believers" will take the mark, and if they do, they will tautologically conclude that "He was never a true believer in the first place".

I have discussed this particular issue regarding the mark, at length here with them, which you might be keen on. https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-is-it-still-faith-only-for-salvation.185801/

Well, I guess by your definition at least, then, I am not a covenant theologist.

Because I believe at least it would be very possible for Christians to take the mark of the beast. (I don't know of any Scripture that says none will). Very similar to the reality that I today have the moral capability to choose to turn my back on God.

 

[Guojing]

Well, I guess by your definition at least, then, I am not a covenant theologist.

Because I believe at least it would be very possible for Christians to take the mark of the beast. (I don't know of any Scripture that says none will). Very similar to the reality that I today have the moral capability to choose to turn my back on God.

Yes of course its possible. The Tribulation is 7 years long.

If I believe that Jesus is my Messiah in year 1, come year 5 where I risk being beheaded or starve to death because I don't have the mark, and hence could not buy and sell any stuff, I will have to make a critical decision whether or not to take that mark.

If we believe that Man has free will and the HS does not control anyone, there will always be some who will choose to take the mark, and hence forfeit their salvation (Revelations 14:9-10)

In this aspect, James made a very good point in his last chapter, James 5

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

During the Tribulation, anyone who is rich should be looking to share all the wealth they had, as the believers did in the early Church in Acts 4:32. The less wealth you regard as yours, the less temptation one will have to take the mark.

And finally James said, in the same chapter,

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The 2nd half of the Tribulation, the 3.5 years where the nasty things will really begin to happen will be tough, but true believers are to wait patiently and endure the fiery trial (which Peter also mentioned the same in 1 Peter 4:12).

The 2nd coming of the Lord will happen at the end of that 3.5 years for patient Israel.

 

[Blik]

We know that it is through our faith, not our works, that we receive salvation. That does not mean that our works does not matter to the Lord. What we do matters to the Lord.

In Ephesians 2:8 Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared i

With salvation God works in us, it tells us we are created then to do good works. We become a new creation in the Lord, that creation is a righteous one, cleaned by the Lord, and not a person who wills to sin so they immediately become unrighteous.

In Revelations it tells us that the Lord looks at our works. Rev. 22:12 Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

 

[dcontroversal]

The entire 1 John is full of scripture about how eternal life is dependent on our love for God and our neighbours.

You can either dance around those passages and try to insert Paul into them, or you can choose to read and understand them as they literally say.

No....it is not....that is your religionist twist on it and false to boot.

 

[Guojing]

No....it is not....that is your religionist twist on it and false to boot.

1 John 3:15

 

[Jackson123]

It is not good news (to me) if I have to live a life of good works to keep proving to those around me that I was really genuinely saved at a point in time in the past.

So after you genuinely save in the past,

1. There is no possibility to do sin, example killing, robing the bank raping etc or

2. You believe after you genuinely save in the past, killing, raping, robing the bank is only lose reward but go to heaven

 

[dcontroversal]

1 John 3:15

yawn......nice try.....no ceegarrrr and contextually that has ZERO bearing on one losing salvation and or keeping salvation.....Catholic dogma does not fly here pal!

 

[Guojing]

yawn......nice try.....no ceegarrrr and contextually that has ZERO bearing on one losing salvation and or keeping salvation.....Catholic dogma does not fly here pal!

You are free to dance around that verse, as I stated