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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#61
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Believes His Son have eternal live

Believe His Son mean believe His Son is God and believe His Son teaching.
This is His Son teaching

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Love God and love neighbors

Thats mean If we not love God or neighbors, we not believes Hos Son and not save.

So hate God or hate neighbors not save

Mean murder your neighbors not save.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,178
5,727
113
#62
none of us are perfect, that is true. But that should never
preclude us from striving for perfection and allowing god
tobe the judge.
“ I agree fully and amen to what you said there . It’s exactly what Paul teaches the church to have that mindset and that goal always . But I personally believe that perfection is found in Christ but only not perfection according to moses law given from Sinai.
perfection in Christ is about mercy , humility , truth , repentance , forgiveness , caring for the needs of the poor and needful , not serving money and possessions like the world does , those things are Gods will all Christ taught those ideas and ways of believing

the law says “Thou shalt not do this , Thou shalt not do that “ that’s only a commandment we “ keep” if we want and desire and are prone to do those things, Christ is about taking away those desires and wants which cause us to rebel against those anti commandments

“The sure mercies of David “

David was chosen of God to be king of Israel , and later he committed adultery , then plotted to cover his sins up, then when all the plotting to cover it up failed , David commanded Uriah a man of God , to be left all alone on the front line of a great battle so he would be killed.

Yet David dealt with this two ways afterwards he kept silent about his sins and then he acknowledged them before God

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found:

surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭32:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God already knows no One is perfect , Moses killed a Man, Abraham lied, Jacob deceived his brother , David commuted his sins of death as well , Solomon also , peter confessed he was a sinful man ,

Paul calls himself the chief of all sinners admits to setting out to destroy the church and committing violence against the innocent people in Christ Before he was converted to the church himself . But somehow David understood Gods mercy , his love and adoration of mankind anyways , his will to save us and not let us destroy ourselves any longer .

Jesus teaches us to be like him be merciful , forgive sinners , bless those who persecute , love those who are against us because that’s how God has treated mankind mercy beggars the perfection your seeking
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#63
Salvation comes by the Blood of Jesus and It alone. There is no other way and no other name.

Acts
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Of course . And we have to recieve it .
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#64
“ I agree fully and amen to what you said there . It’s exactly what Paul teaches the church to have that mindset and that goal always . But I personally believe that perfection is found in Christ but only not perfection according to moses law given from Sinai.
perfection in Christ is about mercy , humility , truth , repentance , forgiveness , caring for the needs of the poor and needful , not serving money and possessions like the world does , those things are Gods will all Christ taught those ideas and ways of believing

the law says “Thou shalt not do this , Thou shalt not do that “ that’s only a commandment we “ keep” if we want and desire and are prone to do those things, Christ is about taking away those desires and wants which cause us to rebel against those anti commandments

“The sure mercies of David “

David was chosen of God to be king of Israel , and later he committed adultery , then plotted to cover his sins up, then when all the plotting to cover it up failed , David commanded Uriah a man of God , to be left all alone on the front line of a great battle so he would be killed.

Yet David dealt with this two ways afterwards he kept silent about his sins and then he acknowledged them before God

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found:

surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭32:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God already knows no One is perfect , Moses killed a Man, Abraham lied, Jacob deceived his brother , David commuted his sins of death as well , Solomon also , peter confessed he was a sinful man ,

Paul calls himself the chief of all sinners admits to setting out to destroy the church and committing violence against the innocent people in Christ Before he was converted to the church himself . But somehow David understood Gods mercy , his love and adoration of mankind anyways , his will to save us and not let us destroy ourselves any longer .

Jesus teaches us to be like him be merciful , forgive sinners , bless those who persecute , love those who are against us because that’s how God has treated mankind mercy beggars the perfection your seeking
Herod commited adultery, and John the baptized reprimand him.
John the baptized end up in prison and murder.

King David commit adultery and murder, Nathan reprimand him, He regret, not kill Nathan

To me, repent is needed to get God forgiveness.
Repent mean try not do It again. And David not do It again.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
#65
Salvation is conditioned upon belief in the shed righteous blood of Christ.

Christ's atoning sacrifice is sufficient for all, but effective only for those who believe by grace through faith.
Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#66
Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)
I think Forest's point is that all of us subscribed to some form of limited atonement.

For the rest of us, the atonement of Christ's finished work is limited to those who choose to accept that gift.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
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#67
Believes His Son have eternal live

Believe His Son mean believe His Son is God and believe His Son teaching.
To believe in the Son/believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation, not only includes believing that Jesus is the Son of God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened." We must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation to receive eternal life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) Genuine believers believe the teachings of Jesus.

This is His Son teaching

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
This was Jesus' answer to a lawyer/expert in the law who asked Jesus the question, "what is the greatest commandment in the law?" (Matthew 25:35-36)

Love God and love neighbors
Thats mean If we not love God or neighbors, we not believes His Son and not save.
Genuine believers have love for God and their neighbor (1 John 3:10; 4:7, 19) yet that does not mean we exercise this love flawlessly, 100% of the time in sinless perfection.

So hate God or hate neighbors not save
Mean murder your neighbors not save.
1 John 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:15 - Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#68
Genuine believers believe the teachings of Jesus.
Yes believe Jesus die for our sin, but also believe His teaching
He is not forgive us If we not forgive other.

Also believe this


[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus die for our sin but he not forgive us If we not forgive other, can we go to heaven without His forgiveness?
Jesus not say what ever you do I forgive you but He say

Matt 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

To me If the Father in heaven not forgive me I am not go to heaven.
Genuine believers have love for God and their neighbor (1 John 3:10; 4:7, 19) yet that does not mean we exercise this love flawlessly, 100% of the time in sinless perfection.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#69
1 John 3:15 - Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Yes I believe what ever bible say, but murder may go to heaven, mean there is a possibility as long as he repent before he die. Not only murder, envy also go to hell, 1 cor 6:9-11
But If we repent, He Will forgive us.
Jesus die to forgive us, but Repent is require.
That is why I don't believe the teaching keep murder as long as you are Christian still go to heaven, because Jesus die for our sin. This teaching look good and I like It, but not biblical, I like because It make easier for a siner go to heaven, but I don't believe It because unbiblical.
Again Yes Jesus die for our sin If we repent.

Not even murder, just because we not forgive other God not forgive us. Can we save without His forgiveness?
No we need His forgiveness.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
#70
Yes believe Jesus die for our sin, but also believe His teaching
He is not forgive us If we not forgive other.

Also believe this

[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus die for our sin but he not forgive us If we not forgive other, can we go to heaven without His forgiveness?
Jesus not say what ever you do I forgive you but He say

Matt 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

To me If the Father in heaven not forgive me I am not go to heaven.
In regards to forgiveness, hearts that are humble and and have received God’s grace forgive others from a heart that is saved, but revengeful hearts with no repentance and do not forgive reveal a heart that is unsaved and don't receive God's forgiveness.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
#71
Yes I believe what ever bible say, but murder may go to heaven, mean there is a possibility as long as he repent before he die. Not only murder, envy also go to hell, 1 cor 6:9-11
But If we repent, He Will forgive us. Jesus die to forgive us, but Repent is require.
Try not to make this too complicated. It's not about being forgiven, then going out and murdering, then losing salvation, then repenting, then regaining salvation and the cycle continues.. Those who repent change their mind and place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. The fruit of repentance is a changed heart and life which seeks to follow the Lord. In regards to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, notice in verse 9 that Paul said the unrighteous (descriptive of unbelievers) will not inherit the kingdom of God. In verse 11, Paul states - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#72
In regards to forgiveness, hearts that are humble and and have received God’s grace forgive others from a heart that is saved, but revengeful hearts with no repentance and do not forgive reveal a heart that is unsaved and don't receive God's forgiveness.
I agree.
That is why I don't believe the teaching that say just believe DBD you save.
ITS look nice for siner like me, but unbiblical

You may believe Jesus die and rise from the dead but If you not forgive other than He not forgive you and don't expect we save without His forgiveness

What look good not always biblical. We better believe zHis teaching though It hard(for me as a siner) than believe easy teaching but go to hell
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#73
Try not to make this too complicated. It's not about being forgiven, then going out and murdering, then losing salvation, then repenting, then regaining salvation and the cycle continues.. Those who repent change their mind and place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. The fruit of repentance is a changed heart and life which seeks to follow the Lord. In regards to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, notice in verse 9 that Paul said the unrighteous (descriptive of unbelievers) will not inherit the kingdom of God. In verse 11, Paul states - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
So what you believe?
After accepting Jesus never sin?
I am still doing sin

Or you believe after accepting Jesus we Will justified in the name of Jesus, so murder Will justified as loving work. Than for Christian murder is ok and still go to heaven?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
#74
So what you believe?
After accepting Jesus never sin?
I am still doing sin
I don't believe in sinless perfection. (1 John 1:8-10)

Or you believe after accepting Jesus we Will justified in the name of Jesus, so murder Will justified as loving work. Than for Christian murder is ok and still go to heaven?
Who would ever refer to murder as loving work? Murder is never ok as a Christian and how many genuine Christians do you know that go on a murdering spree? o_O
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#75
Who would ever refer to murder as loving work? Murder is never ok as a Christian and how many genuine Christians do you know that go on a murdering spree? o_O
That is why I don't believe Christian us forgiven even If He do sin without repent still go to heaven.
I believe Christian may doing sin, but he must repent or go to hell.

Let me remind you one more time

You don't need to murder, just because you not forgive other, Father not going to forgive you and without His forgiveness how you go to heaven.
So I don't believe the teaching

No matter what you do you are His son and go to heaven.
I like It, but don't believe It because unbiblical
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
#76
That is why I don't believe Christian us forgiven even If He do sin without repent still go to heaven.
I believe Christian may doing sin, but he must repent or go to hell.

Let me remind you one more time

You don't need to murder, just because you not forgive other, Father not going to forgive you and without His forgiveness how you go to heaven.
So I don't believe the teaching

No matter what you do you are His son and go to heaven.
I like It, but don't believe It because unbiblical
So who is teaching never forgive, murder all you want, just basically go out and live like the devil as a Christian, but no big deal, you will still go to heaven? :unsure:
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#77
So who is teaching never forgive, murder all you want, just basically go out and live like the devil as a Christian, but no big deal, you will still go to heaven? :unsure:
I go to first baptis church, and most people believe murder envy etc not make you lost your salvation, only lost your reward. That is why I still go to that church, because oN bible study regular member allow to say his opinion. And I am regular member, and not agree that teaching. I keep say what I believe bible say.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#78
Dear Jesus.
First off I want to thank you for loving me even though I did not know you at the time.
After the many yrs you sent people my way to tell me of your love and sacrifice I finally understand.
You are the way, the truth, and life I so desperately need.
I've read and try to follow your commandments but find myself failing in so many ways. My mind and heart seem to be at odds and I am fearful that I will fail.
I find myself doing things I should not be doing and not doing the things I should. Could you please help me with this dilemma.
Jesus I know you can do anything. For you are the God of the impossible.
So if by chance I should pass from this life before I can get it all together to be holy as the father is would you do me a favor and let him know I tried my best. That I listened and heard you his son and tried to obey. That I sought after the father's righteousness and not my own. That I gave as much as I could.
If by chance Jesus that I should come up short to stand righteous before the father could I use yours? Would you please defend me.
Jesus to tell you the truth you are my only hope. I've looked around and down here we are all about the same and I'm afraid we're not all going to make it..
Please consider my request
Awaiting a hopeful reply
Sinner



Dear sinner,
Have heard your request and without hesitation I have already done what you have asked.
In fact I knew that all would fall short so all that was given to me is now yours.
For I did not come for myself but for you all.

Shalom
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,178
5,727
113
#79
Herod commited adultery, and John the baptized reprimand him.
John the baptized end up in prison and murder.

King David commit adultery and murder, Nathan reprimand him, He regret, not kill Nathan

To me, repent is needed to get God forgiveness.
Repent mean try not do It again. And David not do It again.

yes Repentance is required . Repentance is something that begins inside a heart because you have sorrow for your sins . The first step for every Christian is to acknowledge whatever things we know we are doing that are wrong, to confess to God and not hide our sins .

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Truthfully brother repentance comes when we hear what Jesus is saying and then look at how we live

Forgiveness is maintained like this

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are Christians we don’t follow
Moses , we have the word of Christ to live by we have to look at what he taught
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#80
Where do you come up with the idea that Jesus is denying Himself to keep His promise to non-believers?

I certainly did not say any such thing.

I do harmonize Scriptures.

That does not mean we will agree on all points.

Since as already been shown, you have some strange ideas :oops:
I believe that 2 Tim 2:13, reinforces the fact that believing is not the cause of getting eternal salvation, but is a product of already having been saved eternally. God's elect are chosen "in Christ' before the foundation of the world. God's elect were "in Christ" at his crucifiction for their sins. 2 Tim 2:13, Christ is saying, if they are "in him", whether they believe, or not, he cannot deny himself.

About the strange ideas, The same was stated by the larger part of humanity in Christ's days on earth, when he was preaching his doctrine.