Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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rogerg, just read the verses and quit rejecting what God tells you:

Romans 1:

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From faith to faith – not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. the life of the born again one begins in faith and the born again one is to continue to live by faith alone.


Your error is your belief that faith is "man's work" when Scripture clearly tells us faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What Romans 4:5 tells us is that faith is not works and faith is counted for righteousness today just as it was in Abraham's day ... and even before Abraham for we know that Abel obtained witness that he was righteous through his offering by faith - Heb11:4.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
That is not what "faith to faith" means.
The "him" to whom righteousness was accounted was Christ, not Abraham.
Anyway, just to keep it simple, I'm asking you what you think. Do you think salvation is of man or God?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I'm asking you what you think. Do you think salvation is of man or God?
Psalm 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Psalm 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
.
I'm not sure I completely understand your reply as David is prophesying about Christ in those verses.
I'll restate - do you think salvation comes to someone because of man or God.
Please, let's keep it simple - answer only with a 'man' or 'God'.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Again ... your inability to provide a single post submitted by me wherein I scoffed at the Lord Jesus Christ and/or the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is duly noted ... and again, that will not stop you and your ilk from continuing to make your false accusations.
.
Do you scoff Calvinism? That's proof
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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rogerg, just read the verses and quit rejecting what God tells you:

Romans 1:

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From faith to faith – not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. the life of the born again one begins in faith and the born again one is to continue to live by faith alone.


Your error is your belief that faith is "man's work" when Scripture clearly tells us faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What Romans 4:5 tells us is that faith is not works and faith is counted for righteousness today just as it was in Abraham's day ... and even before Abraham for we know that Abel obtained witness that he was righteous through his offering by faith - Heb11:4.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Yep, it's all here, no works but faith in Christ that counts. Faith is contrary to works, so when I believe the gospel of Christ, the scripture says I have salvation. Salvation won't work for someone who will not exercise faith in Him. Any addition will be works-based salvation.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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fredoheaven


Salvation won't work for someone who will not exercise faith in Him.
Thats works and dishonoring to the saving death of Christ, saying His death wont work unless man pitches in with his act of exercising faith.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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fredoheaven




Thats works and dishonoring to the saving death of Christ, saying His death wont work unless man pitches in with his act of exercising faith.
Why was Nineveh spared? Because they believed God and repented. This was not God believing for them. They heard the word preached and they believed.

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I'm not sure I completely understand your reply as David is prophesying about Christ in those verses.
nope ...

[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, the servant of the LORD, who spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul: And he said,]] I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler,and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


From The Enduring Word Bible Commentary by David Guzik:

In these nine titles, we see what God was for David:

  • His strength, the One who empowered him to survive against and defeat his enemies.
  • His rock, which indicates a place of shelter, safety, and a secure standing.
  • His fortress, a place of strength and safety.
  • His deliverer, the One who made a way of escape for him.
  • His God, “my strong God, not only the object of my adoration, but he who puts strength in my soul.” (Clarke)
  • His strength, but this uses a different Hebrew word than in Psalm 18:1. According to Clarke, the idea behind this word is fountain, source, origin.
  • His shield, who defends both his head and his heart.
  • His horn, meaning his strength and defense.
  • His stronghold, his high tower of refuge where he could see an enemy from a great distance and be protected from the adversary.
iii. “When he was conscious that the object of his worship was such as he has pointed out in the above nine particulars, it is no wonder that he resolves to call upon him; and no wonder that he expects, in consequence, to be saved from his enemies; for who can destroy him whom such a God undertakes to save?” (Clarke)
© 2020 The Enduring Word Bible Commentary by David Guzik
https://www.blueletterbible.org/comm/guzik_david/study-guide/psalm/psalm-18.cfm?a=496001




 
Mar 23, 2016
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Yep, it's all here, no works but faith in Christ that counts. Faith is contrary to works, so when I believe the gospel of Christ, the scripture says I have salvation. Salvation won't work for someone who will not exercise faith in Him. Any addition will be works-based salvation.
"Faith is contrary to works" ... exactly
.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Sorry for the delay. I went on vacation, and just got back.

2 Tim 2:13 - It is my understanding of this verse that when we are born again, Eph 2:5, we are quickened together with Christ, and because we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, even if we believe not, he cannot deny the fact that he is in us, and cannot deny himself.

This would seem to prove that belief is not a requirement to be saved eternally. Please give me your thoughts on this subject.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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renew
God makes clear that He imputes righteousness to those who believe:

reneweddaybyday, I have been following your conversation with grightfame52, and rogerg, om the subject of the born again losing their fellowship with God when they are drawn away by the lust of their flesh, and I agree with you on that subject.

Where I disagree with you is how the natural man, before he has been born again, (Eph 2:1-5), cannot, when he hears the gospel, respond positively because the gospel is about spiritual things that he cannot discern (1 Cor 2:14).

The only way that the natural man can respond positively to spiritual things is after God, by his grace, quickens him to the new spiritual life, by exchanging his heart of stone with a fleshy heart, (2 Cor 3:3) (Ezl 11:9), that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt (Eph 2:1-5) (Acts 2:37) (psalms 73:21) (acts 26:14).
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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nope ...

[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, the servant of the LORD, who spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul: And he said,]] I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler,and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


From The Enduring Word Bible Commentary by David Guzik:

In these nine titles, we see what God was for David:
  • His strength, the One who empowered him to survive against and defeat his enemies.
  • His rock, which indicates a place of shelter, safety, and a secure standing.
  • His fortress, a place of strength and safety.
  • His deliverer, the One who made a way of escape for him.
  • His God, “my strong God, not only the object of my adoration, but he who puts strength in my soul.” (Clarke)
  • His strength, but this uses a different Hebrew word than in Psalm 18:1. According to Clarke, the idea behind this word is fountain, source, origin.
  • His shield, who defends both his head and his heart.
  • His horn, meaning his strength and defense.
  • His stronghold, his high tower of refuge where he could see an enemy from a great distance and be protected from the adversary.
iii. “When he was conscious that the object of his worship was such as he has pointed out in the above nine particulars, it is no wonder that he resolves to call upon him; and no wonder that he expects, in consequence, to be saved from his enemies; for who can destroy him whom such a God undertakes to save?” (Clarke)
© 2020 The Enduring Word Bible Commentary by David Guzik
https://www.blueletterbible.org/comm/guzik_david/study-guide/psalm/psalm-18.cfm?a=496001



Ok fine, so you don't want to answer my question but instead go off on an unrelated topic.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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"Faith is contrary to works" ... exactly
.
Faith is not a work but only if it is given to someone by God as a gift, which, as a gift, is the only way that true faith can be obtained so as to not be a work, otherwise, it is a work. For Christ, however, His works were central to His righteousness and His faith, thereby making Him, faithful. It is His faith which is given to those whom He has chosen, from and by which, and only from and by which, do they have true faith and righteousness.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
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Niki7

Guest
That is not what "faith to faith" means.
The "him" to whom righteousness was accounted was Christ, not Abraham.
Anyway, just to keep it simple, I'm asking you what you think. Do you think salvation is of man or God?
eh?

Christ was not even made flesh on this earth when Abrahams faith was accounted to him as righteousness so how do you see Jesus being the recipient of righteousness?

When was He ever unrighteous?

Boggles the mind it does o_O
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Psalm 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock,
and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will
trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

.

Psalm 18:2
:)
 
N

Niki7

Guest
I dont care what he was, the doctrines of grace, tulip they are called is the Gospel of Gods Grace.
So where does Jesus fit in? Pretty sure Calvin didn't die for anyone, but he did see to it that those who disagreed with him were sometimes burnt at the stake.

Not too Christian of him :unsure:
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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eh?

Christ was not even made flesh on this earth when Abrahams faith was accounted to him as righteousness so how do you see Jesus being the recipient of righteousness?

When was He ever unrighteous?

Boggles the mind it does o_O
God was never unrighteous. It testified to God's righteousness, it didn't make Him righteous.

Christ was the ordained Saviour before the foundation of the world, even before He became flesh.

[1Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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eh?

Christ was not even made flesh on this earth when Abrahams faith was accounted to him as righteousness so how do you see Jesus being the recipient of righteousness?

When was He ever unrighteous?

Boggles the mind it does o_O
I should have included these verses in my prior reply for greater clarity. Can you see a linkage to Abraham's belief and Christ,
because Christ gave to him his belief ("who by him do believe").

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[1Pe 1:19-21 KJV]
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.