Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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Niki7

Guest
Having faith in Christ is a gift given to His elect through the fruit of the Spirit upon becoming born again. Whenever you read
"faith in Christ", understand that it (faith) came from God, and was not of themselves. We are righteous before God only because of the
faith we were given is from Christ and from which we were given His righteousness too with it.
You shouldn't just assume that a spiritual doctrine is self-explanatory in one verse.

Please, read this verse closely, especially the highlighted portion. Do you see the "by the faith of Christ even we have
believed in Jesus Christ"? That means if we truly believe it is only because we were given that belief by/from Christ's faith.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is revealed in our lives as we mature in Christ.

It seems to me that what you are saying here, is that I should read scripture with the same understanding you do. If I did that, we would both be wrong.
 
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Niki7

Guest
More scoffing, is that all you about ?
The offer of salvation is universal but the application is only through faith.

A spiritually dead person is not given the Holy Spirit so that they might believe. That is an egregious example of the wrong teaching of TULIP
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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The fruit of the Holy Spirit is revealed in our lives as we mature in Christ.
The fruit of the Spirit will only be revealed to those who are born-again, not to everyone.

[Jhn 3:3 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
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Niki7

Guest
The fruit of the Spirit will only be revealed to those who are born-again, not to everyone.

[Jhn 3:3 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
I didn't say otherwise. I guess comprehension is not a part of TULIP although it would sure help.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The offer of salvation is universal but the application is only through faith.

A spiritually dead person is not given the Holy Spirit so that they might believe. That is an egregious example of the wrong teaching of TULIP
You speaking nonsense.
 
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Niki7

Guest
You speaking nonsense.
Well I certainly do not speak Calvinism. There is salvation under no other name than the Lord Jesus Christ.

Calvinism alleges that God predestinated all of us to either heaven or hell before we were even born. In other words, our free will choices in this life allegedly have nothing to do with our eternal destinies.

Here is just a little taste of the renderings of one John Calvin:

All things being at God’s disposal, and the decision of salvation or death belonging to Him, He orders all things by His counsel and decree in such a manner, that some men are born devoted from the womb to certain death, that His name may be glorified in their destruction” (John Allen, ed., Institutes of the Christian Religion. Presbyterian Board of Publication, Philadelphia, 1841, p. 169

Some men are born to certain death that God's name might be glorified is what he states.

Perversion of the gospel and sadly the actual beliefs of some people whose understanding of scripture has been badly damaged by a man that was certainly not led by the Holy Spirit.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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Well I certainly do not speak Calvinism. There is salvation under no other name than the Lord Jesus Christ.

Calvinism alleges that God predestinated all of us to either heaven or hell before we were even born. In other words, our free will choices in this life allegedly have nothing to do with our eternal destinies.

Here is just a little taste of the renderings of one John Calvin:

All things being at God’s disposal, and the decision of salvation or death belonging to Him, He orders all things by His counsel and decree in such a manner, that some men are born devoted from the womb to certain death, that His name may be glorified in their destruction” (John Allen, ed., Institutes of the Christian Religion. Presbyterian Board of Publication, Philadelphia, 1841, p. 169

Some men are born to certain death that God's name might be glorified is what he states.

Perversion of the gospel and sadly the actual beliefs of some people whose understanding of scripture has been badly damaged by a man that was certainly not led by the Holy Spirit.
John Calvin was not the originator of the predestination doctrine. Or its tenets. He just gets the blame.
 
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Niki7

Guest
John Calvin was not the originator of the predestination doctrine. Or its tenets. He just gets the blame.
He was a very enthusiastic participant to the extent of murder. The devil has been trying to destroy the truth since the garden
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Faith is not a work but only if it is given to someone by God as a gift, which, as a gift, is the only way that true faith can be obtained so as to not be a work, otherwise, it is a work. For Christ, however, His works were central to His righteousness and His faith, thereby making Him, faithful. It is His faith which is given to those whom He has chosen, from and by which, and only from and by which, do they have true faith and righteousness.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

As per context, what Jesus said was everlasting life that is given not faith. as you are saying. When Jesus said, "...This is the work of God..." he was answering the Jews who wanted to work for 'everlasting life' but Jesus says this was not about their works but rather to believe on him. What is clear is Christ gives everlasting life to those who believe which is in harmony with the many Bible verses found in the book of John e.g. John 3:16
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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fredoheaven

What is clear is Christ gives everlasting life to those who believe which is in harmony with the many Bible verses found in the book of John e.g. John 3:16
What is clear is that you are making mans faith, act of believing a condition man performs in order to be recompensed with everlasting life, that's a work/law based Salvation.

Believing in Christ is the Work of God, God the Holy Spirit even !
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

This poster is really good at throwing a bomb, letting people argue and never comes back to the thread. A lot of bloviating to get a fire started and then disappears. Anyone else notice that?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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As per context, what Jesus said was everlasting life that is given not faith. as you are saying. When Jesus said, "...This is the work of God..." he was answering the Jews who wanted to work for 'everlasting life' but Jesus says this was not about their works but rather to believe on him. What is clear is Christ gives everlasting life to those who believe which is in harmony with the many Bible verses found in the book of John e.g. John 3:16
Sorry, I'm not sure that I entirely understand your post, but the gist of the verse is that it is God alone who gives true belief in Jesus to those whom He has chosen: "this is the work of God that...". Everlasting life is not given because someone believes on Him. In fact, just the opposite - only to those to whom everlasting life has been given come to believe on Him - it is not possible for someone to truly believe until then. Salvation/born-again comes first, and from/by that, faith.


[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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fredoheaven



What is clear is that you are making mans faith, act of believing a condition man performs in order to be recompensed with everlasting life, that's a work/law based Salvation.

Believing in Christ is the Work of God, God the Holy Spirit even !
Of course, you try to deny what Christ says in its context.

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Sorry, I'm not sure that I entirely understand your post, but the gist of the verse is that it is God alone who gives true belief in Jesus to those whom He has chosen: "this is the work of God that...". Everlasting life is not given because someone believes on Him. In fact, just the opposite - only to those to whom everlasting life has been given come to believe on Him - it is not possible for someone to truly believe until then. Salvation/born-again comes first, and from/by that, faith.


[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Simply you are out of context. What Christ gives is everlasting life as in v.27. Verse 29 is Christ's response to verse 28 as the people wanted to work and gain everlasting life. Your other verses like Galatian prove it is the fruit and not the gift. etc
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Of course, you try to deny what Christ says in its context.

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
I havent denied anything, but I exposed you making faith, the act of believing a condition man performs so he is rewarded with eternal life, which is totally false.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Simply you are out of context. What Christ gives is everlasting life as in v.27. Verse 29 is Christ's response to verse 28 as the people wanted to work and gain everlasting life. Your other verses like Galatian prove it is the fruit and not the gift. etc
That Christ gives eternal life as a gift is true, but from that gift comes faith. The fruit of the Spirit IS faith; that is, faith itself is one of the Spirit's fruits which is given to those who inherit eternal life. Being given and not self-produced, makes it a gift.
Eternal life brings faith, faith does not bring eternal life. If eternal life is the gift, then everything brought from it, must also be of the gift: It is all a gift of/from God; nothing for it is from man.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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That Christ gives eternal life is true, but from that comes faith. The fruit of the Spirit IS faith; that is, faith itself is one of the Spirit's fruit.
Eternal life brings faith, faith does not bring eternal life. If eternal life is the gift, then everything brought from it, must also be of the gift: It is all a gift of/from God; nothing from man.
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit. Can any lost person have joy? Long-suffering? Gentleness? Love? Goodness?