Calvinism and Context?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#381
Nov 20, 2018
18,487
7,266
113
#381
EleventhHour said:
...................though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Hebrews 5:8
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I earlier stated. Jesus DID understand a novel and not yet experienced form of obedience (and therefore an expression of yet GREATER LOVE) to God the Father.

So then God returns this love to Jesus by magnifying His glory to an even greater level and providing his beloved Son with His Bride, the Church.

To imply that Jesus was here to learn obedience because he was formerly disobedient is utterly ridiculous and blasphemous.
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#382
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
#382
cv5 said:
Let's just say that the freewillers clearly stipulate (and refuse for any reason to abandon), that they, in and of themselves, by themselves, are self-endowed (not a gift of God not granted by God has nothing to do with God whatsoever) with sufficient faith and capacity to believe to accept the gospel when it is preached unto them.

This I do, not nor cannot agree to, as it it is not scripturally supported in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Who are some of CC’s freewillers? I’d like to stay clear of them.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#383
Nov 20, 2018
18,487
7,266
113
#383
EleventhHour said:
And this is clearly refuted...

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

No need to suppress truth if one cannot be affected by it and have the ability to believe it.
Click to expand...
I'm not impressed. You are going to have to do a lot better than that to convince me otherwise.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#385
#385
Duskey said:
Who are some of CC’s freewillers? I’d like to stay clear of them.
Click to expand...
I am one. A Sovereign God gave us the ability to chose..imho

We have a free will.. meaning we have the ability to make choices ... society and the justice system is built on this premise.
This is no way takes away from God being able to bring His plans to fruition.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#386
#386
cv5 said:
I'm not impressed. You are going to have to do a lot better than that to convince me otherwise.
Click to expand...
Not surprised... a problem for your total inability.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#387
#387
cv5 said:
That is exactly what I earlier stated. Jesus DID understand a novel and not yet experienced form of obedience (and therefore an expression of yet GREATER LOVE) to God the Father.

So then God returns this love to Jesus by magnifying His glory to an even greater level and providing his beloved Son with His Bride, the Church.

To imply that Jesus was here to learn obedience because he was formerly disobedient is utterly ridiculous and blasphemous.
Click to expand...

Never stated He was formerly disobedient.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#389
#389
cv5 said:
Your continual stream of bitterness and insults is a testament to somethng. And that something ain't good.
Click to expand...
Okay rephrase, sorry.. that was typed quickly


A problem for the dogma of total inability which is seems you are in agreement with...however... make no mistake while I have no tolerance for the dogma/tenets of TULIP it is not personal.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#390
#390
cv5 said:
Let's just say that the freewillers clearly stipulate (and refuse for any reason to abandon), that they, in and of themselves, by themselves, are self-endowed (not a gift of God not granted by God has nothing to do with God whatsoever) with sufficient faith and capacity to believe to accept the gospel when it is preached unto them.

This I do, not nor cannot agree to, as it it is not scripturally supported in my opinion.
Click to expand...
And choice and free will is seen right from beginning with Cain.....

Gen 4:7

“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

Definitely a choice of doing one or the other.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#391
Nov 20, 2018
18,487
7,266
113
#391
EleventhHour said:
Never stated He was formerly disobedient.
Click to expand...
Evidently you are tying Jesus' obedience while on earth to His free will (whether to be obedient or not).

I, on the other hand, am tying it (and everything else down to the finest scintilla and detail) to prophecy according to Gods predetermined plan for Jesus (and consequently to the elect).

Did I get that right?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#393
#393
cv5 said:
Evidently you are tying Jesus' obedience while on earth to His free will (whether to be obedient or not).

I, on the other hand, am tying it (and everything else down to the finest scintilla and detail) to prophecy according to Gods predetermined plan for Jesus (and consequently to the elect).

Did I get that right?
Click to expand...
My point is that we have the ability to make choices even Jesus.

Gen 4:7

“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

Definitely a choice of doing one or the other.
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#394
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
#394
EleventhHour said:
I am one. A Sovereign God gave us the ability to chose..imho

We have a free will.. meaning we have the ability to make choices ... society and the justice system is built on this premise.
This is no way takes away from God being able to bring His plans to fruition.
Click to expand...
All that said you’ve never claimed to have saved yourself. You know full well God saved you and you rejoice in His saving grace in Jesus Christ. Very interesting.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#395
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#395
EleventhHour said:
Already explained it multiple times, you rejected Orthodox biblical understanding in favour of God Calvinism doctrine of election.
Click to expand...

I rejected,how you have told me numerous times,how I should have been saved.

My understanding is in favour of how God Saved me....which you know only too well..so won’t repeat myself.....”again”.

I had no CHOICE!....God Chose Me!
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#396
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#396
cv5 said:
Let's just say that the freewillers clearly stipulate (and refuse for any reason to abandon), that they, in and of themselves, by themselves, are self-endowed (not a gift of God not granted by God has nothing to do with God whatsoever) with sufficient faith and capacity to believe to accept the gospel when it is preached unto them.

This I do, not nor cannot agree to, as it it is not scripturally supported in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Amen!!...neither can I.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#397
Nov 20, 2018
18,487
7,266
113
#397
EleventhHour said:
And choice and free will is seen right from beginning with Cain.....

Gen 4:7

“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

Definitely a choice of doing one or the other.
Click to expand...
Here is an interesting thought:

Those who understand and believe in Gods election (being chosen and held in the power of God) also believe (for the most part....it does vary) in the perseverance of the Saints a.k.a. OSAS.

What may I ask do the freewillers believe in as regards "the perseverance of the Saints"?

Are they held and preserved by the overwhelming power of God? Or can they by "their own free will" forfeit their election and salvation?

In other words, is it possible to be saved and then unsaved at some future date? This is due to a willful decision on the part of the saved person?
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#398
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#398
Duskey said:
Who are some of CC’s freewillers? I’d like to stay clear of them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he stated that very poorly. I don't think they understand that believing and accepting the gift of salvation is not saving yourself.

But I'm with you if what he stated was true....I'm definitely not 1ofthem kind of "freewillers"...lol

But I'm pretty sure no one believes that they can or did some how save themselves and God don't matter.....that's just a spin and a false argument that Calvinist use.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#400
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#400
cv5 said:
Frankly.........there is a high probability that you are correct!
Well spoken! And good call on your part.
Click to expand...

FYI....he used to say that to me,🤣🤣....being sarcastic,I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong.

If I am wrong...then I agree with him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.