Calvinism - Another Heresy
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E
Attack & insult? Really?
You mean non-essentials such as Hyper-grace, a false doctrine invented in 1997 by Joseph Prince? The one taught at https://escapetoreality.org/ ?
You mean the non-essentials you & others were constantly pouring into the BDF & others hated it?
Think before you push that 'report' icon..... I've already found yours & others' threads back in January.
You mean non-essentials such as Hyper-grace, a false doctrine invented in 1997 by Joseph Prince? The one taught at https://escapetoreality.org/ ?
You mean the non-essentials you & others were constantly pouring into the BDF & others hated it?
Think before you push that 'report' icon..... I've already found yours & others' threads back in January.
E
Believe What? That God is a respecter of people, Does not give everyone the same opportunity. Even though he condemned them before they committed one sin, and condemns babies to hell before they are born because he hates them, yet loves other babies in the womb? even though he says in his own words that God loved the world?
Nope. Ain't gonna happen.
But like I said, I will not judge you for believing otherwise, Just disagree with you.
Nope. Ain't gonna happen.
But like I said, I will not judge you for believing otherwise, Just disagree with you.
I see. But when I look at the Romans 9, I see much broader use than just regarding the election of national Israel.
For example:
"One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
"What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?"
"Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom"
“I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."
"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written"
- it seems pretty much to be also about salvation to me
For example:
"One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
"What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?"
"Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom"
“I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."
"What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written"
- it seems pretty much to be also about salvation to me
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Jesus indeed died for the sins of the whole world. Jesus blood is efficacious only to those who receive Him as their personal Savior. So much for universalism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus indeed died for the sins of the whole world. Jesus blood is efficacious only to those who receive Him as their personal Savior. So much for universalism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
yet I can make it say the opposite. using historical context. and not modern thinking. (how would the people at the time paul wrote the letter in rome have seen it?)
The first example, He did not chose Israel before because their fathers were righteous (an argument made by Jews at the time) His argument was that he chose them before they were even born
(using two OT quotes. One says the older will serve the younger (spoken of two nations, two nations are in your womb)and the reality that Esau as a person NEVER served Jacob. And the other being Jacob God loved, yet Esau he hated, A quote from Malachi speaking again of two nations. God never loved on child more than the other.
so I interpret it the fatalistic way, That God hates kids, and condemns them to hell.
Or interpret it the way it was seen in the OT. That God chose one nation, and not the other. And he loved on nation and blessed it more than he did the other NATION?
Thats just one example. There are many more we can keep right on going.
The first example, He did not chose Israel before because their fathers were righteous (an argument made by Jews at the time) His argument was that he chose them before they were even born
(using two OT quotes. One says the older will serve the younger (spoken of two nations, two nations are in your womb)and the reality that Esau as a person NEVER served Jacob. And the other being Jacob God loved, yet Esau he hated, A quote from Malachi speaking again of two nations. God never loved on child more than the other.
so I interpret it the fatalistic way, That God hates kids, and condemns them to hell.
Or interpret it the way it was seen in the OT. That God chose one nation, and not the other. And he loved on nation and blessed it more than he did the other NATION?
Thats just one example. There are many more we can keep right on going.
E
Jesus said it best.
What is the fathers will? That whoever sees ad believes has eternal life, and will be raised on the last day.
The rest? As he said, they have seen and not believed.
As jesus also said to Isreal. His will was to gather them as a hen gathers her chicks, But they (Israel) was not willing.
What is the fathers will? That whoever sees ad believes has eternal life, and will be raised on the last day.
The rest? As he said, they have seen and not believed.
As jesus also said to Isreal. His will was to gather them as a hen gathers her chicks, But they (Israel) was not willing.
This kind of reminds me of 12-step groups. They (both Celebrate Recovery and even secular 12-step groups) represent what the early church first envisioned on how the church should act. Yes, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, and other groups of that nature believe in a "Higher Power" rather than Christ. But the meanings are essentially similar to that of Celebrate Recovery. And CR has saved millions of people, let alone bring them back to sobriety.
Yes the verse that states that He will remember our sins and iniquity no more is a foreknown decision that He as the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, made.He knows all things even the secret things of our hearts.
He does all the work of salvation. As David said in the Psalms: When I awake you are still there .His works are beyond us finding out.
Psalms 139:18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
He evens heals our Psyche by giving us dreams. What I understand if there is no dream activity for three days a person can become psychotic.
Just another miracle He performs for us. In that way he performs all that He appoints to us. It is He who can make our hard heart soft.
He magnifies His living abiding word above all of the immutable attributes of His authority. being subject to His own word himself.He cannot go beyond that and therefore above which is written if so we would have no confidence .
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word "above"all thy name.
Or as we are informed in Philippians 2 as wework out (not work for to obtain) His gift of faith that works in, it isGod which works in us both to will andto do of “his good pleasure”.as the peace of God that surpasses all humanunderstand and therefore we can believe as He gives us His faith to makeit possible. In the end of the matter givingus a imputed righteousness not of or own self’s but according to the wisdom ofGod in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, found in the parables.
He does all the work of salvation. As David said in the Psalms: When I awake you are still there .His works are beyond us finding out.
Psalms 139:18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
He evens heals our Psyche by giving us dreams. What I understand if there is no dream activity for three days a person can become psychotic.
Just another miracle He performs for us. In that way he performs all that He appoints to us. It is He who can make our hard heart soft.
He magnifies His living abiding word above all of the immutable attributes of His authority. being subject to His own word himself.He cannot go beyond that and therefore above which is written if so we would have no confidence .
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word "above"all thy name.
Or as we are informed in Philippians 2 as wework out (not work for to obtain) His gift of faith that works in, it isGod which works in us both to will andto do of “his good pleasure”.as the peace of God that surpasses all humanunderstand and therefore we can believe as He gives us His faith to makeit possible. In the end of the matter givingus a imputed righteousness not of or own self’s but according to the wisdom ofGod in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, found in the parables.
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Amen....CelebrateRecovery leaves No room for any other"Higher Power" than Jesus Christ, and His healing Word. Restoring the entire effort of the12 step principle.
You're right about the early church vision. The problem is, bearing one another's burdens is very unpopular these days. As many churches are just a great place for healthy, or not too burdened people.
So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’
Luke 14:21 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/luk.14.21.NKJV
You're right about the early church vision. The problem is, bearing one another's burdens is very unpopular these days. As many churches are just a great place for healthy, or not too burdened people.
So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’
Luke 14:21 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/luk.14.21.NKJV
P
I believe in man's free will, but God does foreknow every decision we make. If he didn't he'd not be truly omniscient. That verse is using the verb "remember" to imply that he doesn't hold our sins against us or keep a record of our transgressions. The same way that we might tell someone that we forgive that everything is forgotten. We don't literally forget the issue or grievance. We just choose to interact with that person as if that situation had never happened.
I think God's foreknowledge is actually a testament to his forbearance and mercy towards men. God knows how each and every one of us will respond to the gospel and yet, he often deals with those he knows will reject truth. Christ died for all knowing that only some would repent.
Even though God knows the choices we will make, we are still culpable for our sins. We have a choice to sin. In some ways, we can foreknow to a degree the actions of others just based on their track record and personality. There are some people that I know that are extremely predictable and almost always respond the same way when put into similar situations. If as mere humans we can somewhat accurately predict other's behavior, how much more can God who sees the thoughts and intent of our hearts .
I think God's foreknowledge is actually a testament to his forbearance and mercy towards men. God knows how each and every one of us will respond to the gospel and yet, he often deals with those he knows will reject truth. Christ died for all knowing that only some would repent.
Even though God knows the choices we will make, we are still culpable for our sins. We have a choice to sin. In some ways, we can foreknow to a degree the actions of others just based on their track record and personality. There are some people that I know that are extremely predictable and almost always respond the same way when put into similar situations. If as mere humans we can somewhat accurately predict other's behavior, how much more can God who sees the thoughts and intent of our hearts .
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