Calvinism vs. Arminianism: Good article

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's a good article in regards to the differences between Calvinist and Arminian Theology regarding the order of events in salvation.

Note that in the Calvinist view, regeneration must precede faith. This is perfectly consistent with what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3. No one can even SEE the kingdom of God, let alone enter into it, until he is born again (born from above or regenerated). Mankind is dead in sins and trespasses..not simply "sick" and in need of a doctor.

John 3: 1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? [SUP]11 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. [SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[SUP][b][/SUP] have eternal life. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. [SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God".

What is the ordo salutis?

by Matt Slick
The ordo salutis is Latin for "order of salvation." It deals with what God has revealed to us about how He saves sinners regarding the order of His work upon them. Though the Scriptures do not list a direct order of the events ordained by God that bring us salvation, different theological camps have, nonetheless, proposed different orders.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Calvinist[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Arminian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Catholic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

• Election--God's choice of people to save. This choice occurred before the foundation of the world.
• Predestination--The work of God to ordain to salvation those who have been elected to it.
• Calling--The preaching of the gospel message.
• Regeneration--The change in the person produced by God.
• Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
• Repentance--Turning from sin.
• Justification--The imputation of righteousness to the individual thus making him righteous according to the law.
• Sanctification--God's work in the individual to make him more like Christ.
• Perseverance--God's work in the individual results in the person continually believing throughout his life.
• Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.

[/TD]
[TD]

• Calling--The preaching of the gospel.
• Prevenient Grace --A grace from God that enables a person to believe.
• Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
• Repentance--Turning from sin.
• Regeneration--The change in the person produced by God.
• Justification--The imputation of righteousness to the individual thus making him righteous according to the law.
• Perseverance--God's work in the individual results in the person continually believing throughout his life.
• Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.

[/TD]
[TD]

• Actual Grace--God enables a person to respond to God's call of faith.
• Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
• Contrition--Attitude of remorse for sins committed.
• Regeneration/Baptism--The change produced in a person at baptism where all previous sins are removed.
• Penance--The process of regaining grace lost via sinning so that salvation is maintained.
• Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Of importance is the order of faith and regeneration.

In the Calvinist perspective, regeneration proceeds faith where in the Arminian and Catholic perspectives, faith precedes regeneration.

In the Calvinist perspective, this is a logical order and not necessarily a temporal one. In Arminianism and Catholicism, it is temporal.

The logical necessity of regeneration preceding faith, according to the Calvinist perspective, would be the same as the logical necessity of electricity preceding light in a lightbulb. It is logically necessary that electricity precedes light, but it is not logically necessary that light precedes electricity.

When electricity is present, the light is the necessary result but not the reverse.

In Arminianism and Catholicism, faith precedes regeneration temporally. In other words, both of their orders affirm that there is a duration of time where faith temporally precedes regeneration. They teach that a person must be enabled by God to believe: prevenient grace in Arminianism and actual grace in Roman Catholicism.

The Calvinist perspective would teach that a person is not able to believe in God from within his sinfulness and must experience regeneration before he is able to believe.

In all three perspectives listed above, the final state of the ordo salutis is the glorification of the individual. This glorification is the full resurrection and glorified bodies which all true Christians will enjoy for eternity in the presence of God.

References:

• Grudem, Wayne (2009-05-18). Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine (p. 670). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
• monergism.com/topics/ordo-salutis
• frame-poythress.org/salvation-and-theological-pedagogy
• arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/the-arminian-and-calvinist-ordo-salutis-a-brief-comparative-study/

https://carm.org/what-is-the-ordo-salutis

Good article.

Now can we discuss what those who are neither Calvinist or Arminian believe?

ps... You seem to like to cut and past a lot. don't you have any thoughts of your own? kind of hard to discuss what other people think don't you agree??

 

[sparkman]

One of the annoying attempts by Arminians is to claim that John 3:16 refutes the Cavinist position.

John 3:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

They focus on the word whosever and claim that implies everyone who wants to has the opportunity to be saved. The issue with this defense is that only the elect will believe, so there is no contradiction between John 3:16 and Calvinism. Calvinists heartily agree with John 3:16.

So, this verse offers no defense against Calvinism, because Calvinists agree with it.

I am not sure why Arminians use the verse anyways. Both agree that there are a group of elect individuals and a group of non-elect individuals. Arminians claim that they are elect because God foreknows their decision; Calvinists claim they are elect by sovereign grace. Only the elect will believe, in either case. No one will surprise God and show up in heaven or the resurrection unannounced. Both sides agree that God has exhaustive foreknowledge (Isaiah 46:9-10). Open theists, because they are aware of this weakness, claim God doesn't have exhaustive foreknowledge, but they are widely considered heretical and seek to reduce God's omnipotence and omniscience.

Again, we go back to John 6:37:

John 6:37 [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

All that the Father gives to Christ will come to Me (no exceptions) and those who come to him he will not cast out (they won't be lost).

John 6:44 [SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

No one CAN (is able) come to Christ, unless the Father draws him, and Christ will raise him up at the last day (no exceptions; no one is lost).

If everyone can come to Christ, then this means God is drawing all. If God is drawing all, then all will be glorified. This implies universalism which is obviously not true because some will suffer eternal punishment.

Conclusion: not everyone can come to Christ. It's pretty simple. It's all by sovereign grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please stop thinking everyone who disagrees with you is Arminian.

That's why these discussions never get anywhere, it is a he said he said discussion

 

[sparkman]

Notice these points below...the reason for disbelief is attributed to the fact that they were not part of Christ's sheep (the elect). Secondly, note that the Father gave the sheep to the Son; they didn't choose the Son of their own power. In addition, the underlined portion supports the perseverance of the saints.

John 10:25-29 [SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, [SUP]26 [/SUP]but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to me,[SUP][a][/SUP] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I and the Father are one.”

 

[phil36]

Please stop thinking everyone who disagrees with you is Arminian.

That's why these discussions never get anywhere, it is a he said he said discussion

Well... Since your in a C & A thread, would you care to tell us whats different about your view?

 

[John146]

What are we predestined for...to be conformed to the image of his son, the adoption, the redemption of the body. Can you honestly say any of these things mean the salvation of the soul?

Who is the elect of God? Jesus Christ...is Jesus Christ in need of salvation?

Where in Romans 9 is it even talking about the salvation of the soul?

Sovereignty is not found in the Bible. It is a secret code word to let other Calvinists know you are one of them.

I don't know how Arminians get around the Golden Chain of Redemption (Romans 8:28-30)...not only that, but I don't know how they fail to connect the context of Romans 9 with these verses. The common Arminian defense concerning Romans 9, which speaks very clearly on predestination, is that it is talking about corporate election. However, it's very apparent that Romans 8:28-30 is speaking of individuals. There are no chapter breaks in Scripture, so there's no justification for shifting context.

Note that Paul speaks of salvation in a completed, past tense for the elect:

Romans 8:28-30 [SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[SUP][a][/SUP] for those who are called according to his purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

I've seen individuals claim to break the "golden chain of redemption" but their explanations are ridiculous.

The ultimate conclusion on this matter, for me, is that God is Sovereign, and man is not. Our desire to be sovereign is part of the Fall..we basically told God to get lost, and declared our independence from Him. Arminians are retaining the illusion of self-rulership. I don't know the deal they had with God, but my deal was unconditional surrender. I am not sovereign in my salvation or anything else; God is.

 

[vic1980]

Good thing i'm just a Christian following Jesus Christ.

no need for putting up a dividing wall among my brother and sister in Christ

 

[ForthAngel]

Good thing i'm just a Christian following Jesus Christ.

no need for putting up a dividing wall among my brother and sister in Christ

It actually seems like a reasonable debate on this thread surprisingly. I'm glad to see each side (for the most part) coming to some agreements and rationally debating their differing views. EG and others have even admitted that this isn't an issue that makes one Christian or not Christian and can embrace the other as a brother which I'm happy to see since I agree.

Doesn't matter if you believe in (predestined) election or not. If you believe in Jesus and follow him, you are elect whether you like it or not

 

[John146]

Agreed, because Jesus Christ is God's elect.

It actually seems like a reasonable debate on this thread surprisingly. I'm glad to see each side (for the most part) coming to some agreements and rationally debating their differing views. EG and others have even admitted that this isn't an issue that makes one Christian or not Christian and can embrace the other as a brother which I'm happy to see since I agree.

Doesn't matter if you believe in (predestined) election or not. If you believe in Jesus and follow him, you are elect whether you like it or not

 

[Grandpa]

Inability is removed when we receive the ability of the holy spirit.

If that were true then why are we under Grace and not Law?

Grace is not needed if we have ability.

 

[Calmador]

O
Again, we go back to John 6:37:

John 6:37 [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

All that the Father gives to Christ will come to Me (no exceptions) and those who come to him he will not cast out (they won't be lost).

John 6:44 [SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

No one CAN (is able) come to Christ, unless the Father draws him, and Christ will raise him up at the last day (no exceptions; no one is lost).

If everyone can come to Christ, then this means God is drawing all. If God is drawing all, then all will be glorified. This implies universalism which is obviously not true because some will suffer eternal punishment.

Conclusion: not everyone can come to Christ. It's pretty simple. It's all by sovereign grace.

Hey people, looks like I'm gonna rock the boat some more.

For starters, I'm Armenian. So far, that's what most makes sense considering who G-d is and how he would express himself according to his word. G-d is love... love hopes all things, love believes all things, love endures all things. Makes me wonder... How does G-d decide to stop his love? I'd guess it be just when humans no longer have a future to accept G-d which may have been why G-d decided to make the flood happen. In genesis it says that every thought in the heart of all mankind was evil, all the time. I'd say that could at least be one way when G-d decides to judge.

Anyways, I want look at the verses sparkman showed here. I don't think they're conclusive.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

^ The whosoever could also just as-well imply the capability of being able to choose G-d. The whosoever could go either way, in support of Calvinism or Armenian-ism. I think the more problematic thing in this verse is the word "world" where Calvinist have to make it... "some of the world" .... that's a lot of extra words we need to read into the text to make Calvinism valid. I think that could be eisegesis. John 3:16 is more of a danger towards Calvinism than it is towards Armenian-ism.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

^ This verse doesn't mean Armenian-ism isn't happening. It could be the case (all necessary steps before what you are about to read happens, G-d choosing you first etc., and then) that people decide to accept G-d and G-d the father then brings them to Jesus Christ.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

^ Many are called, few are chosen. This drawing process may be the call... but not everyone that is called will be chosen. In this verse, its still possible that people may reject the call/drawing that G-d is doing. So, yes every believer will be drawn, but that doesn't conclude that Calvinistic election is happening.

These verses don't absolutely say that Calvinism is happening.

 

[Calmador]

Now.. why I think Armenian is the better explanation...

G-d does his pleasure.

Psalm 115:3 Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

G-d does NOT take pleasure in the death of the wicked and instead prefers all to live.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?'

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

If he prefers all to live, than according to Calvinistic theology, all should be saved, Christians.

Not all are Christians.

Therefore, Calvinistic theology either definitely or probably isn't happening may be false.

Also, saw this earlier in the thread.

Romans 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

^ This works easily for Armenian-ism and in Calvinism we would need to think of "all people" in two difference definitions.

 

[Calmador]

Lastly, I want to add in... Did Lucifer decide to disobey? Or did G-d influence Lucifer to disobey... sin... do evil and become Satan?

I'd say G-d didn't influence Lucifer to sin. But, what would Calvinist say? I remember hearing John piper's explanation and he seemed to vaguely gloss over it and repeatly emphasis and I think he even yelled a bit, over and over again throughout his explanation "G-d is in control, he is sovereign." It made me think he was desperately trying to comfort himself. I lost a lot of respect for him and seemed to admit G-d was in control of all wills and influenced Lucifer to sin... I may be wrong but that's how I remember him answering. One of the main reasons I disprove of Calvinism. G-d's holiness is questionable in Calvinism.

I think sovereignty can be had by G-d in that he makes or has made all things possible. He knows the future and has all the power to manipulate all... however, I believe he chooses to limit his own influence (by his own sovereign will) to not choose for you. Also, the fact that he as set the stage alone makes him in control of all decisions. For example, I could ask G-d for forgiveness but did you know I won't necessarily be saved because of asking G-d for forgiveness? It's true. The reason its even possible for me to be saved isn't absolutely necessary because of me asking in Faith. First G-d had to have provided salvation through Jesus Christ or the old covenant. So, in an imaginary possibility (which may be impossible) G-d could have just not saved Adam and Eve... Adam and Eve may have plead to G-d by saying, "save me".. "save me" and it have no effect without G-d gracefully providing a salvation process. I'd say G-d is in control just because of him allowing mankind to be saved. Just because mankind can say, "yes or no," doesn't give them a power over G-d. No, G-d decided that the situation would be like so and made as such so that we have a chance... making him in control of our destinies fundamentally.

So far, that's why I think Armenian-ism is the way to go.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If that were true then why are we under Grace and not Law?

Grace is not needed if we have ability.

So that we can do the will of GOD.

Do you think that grace gives you the liberty to not do what is righteous?

Do you think that grace is a state of not doing righteousness?

What you are describing as grace ("Grace is not needed if we have ability") is a passive state of imagination in which you are not engaged in doing the will of GOD.

We need ability because we are corrupt and don't have the strength of ourselves to do GOD's will.

 

[John146]

The ability to do what? Believe? My ability to believe is not a work, nor is it the working agent that saved me. God's grace is afforded to me because I called upon Him.

If that were true then why are we under Grace and not Law?

Grace is not needed if we have ability.

 

[sparkman]

Notice this verse:

Philippians 1:6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Two important things to note:

It is God who began the process of salvation, by regeneration, or restoring the sinner who was spiritually dead and unable to respond to God whatsoever.

God is able to complete our salvation. As with all of Reformed (Calvinist) theology, and the soteriology of Scripture, the focus is on God and not man's free will.

That is why I consider Arminian or any synergistic theology (including Catholicism) to be God-dishonoring and a form of idolatry. The focus is on man or self, and not God.

I was an idolater at one point with regards to my soteriology but no more.

I highly recommend viewing this video set in order to understand Reformed theology and to address the counter-points of Arminian or Pelagian theology that are being expressed here in this thread. I could address their objections personally but it would take a long time. Arminians try to keep you busy with their rabbit hole argumentation that way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCtrOqYXekE&list=PLKnzCuBYVJm7hQpMDIjihZgMYIECh4jz9&index=1

Note that this is a playlist with three videos.

 

[sparkman]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Arminianism
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Calvinism
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Free-Will or Human Ability​

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.
​

[/TD]
[TD]

Total Inability or Total Depravity​

Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Conditional Election​

God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
​

[/TD]
[TD]

Unconditional Election​

God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Universal Redemption or General Atonement​

Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.
​

[/TD]
[TD]

Particular Redemption or Limited Atonement​

Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

The Holy Spirit Can Be Effectually Resisted​

The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) precedes and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.
​

[/TD]
[TD]

The Efficacious Call of the Spirit or
Irresistible Grace​

In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Falling from Grace​

Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ - that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost.
​

[/TD]
[TD]

Perseverance of the Saints​

All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

According to Arminianism:
Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond) - man's response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, "choose" to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man's will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be recipients of the gift of salvation.[FONT=Arial,Geneva] [/FONT]

According to Calvinism:
Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the Triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.
​

[HR][/HR]

The above material was taken from The Five Points of CALVINISM - Defined, Defended, Documented. David N. Steele and Curtis Thomas, are Baptist ministers in Little Rock, Arkansas. Their contrast of the Five Points of Calvinism with the Five Points of Arminianism is the clearest and most concise form found for the edification of the average student. It is also included as an Appendix in, Romans: An Interpretive Outline by the same authors. Each of these books is published by the Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Phillipsburg, N.J.
​

 

[sparkman]

A big problem with Arminian theology, or general free-willers, is that they cannot adequately defend the doctrine of inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture very well, given their commitment to the presuppositions of man's free will and God's non-interference with free will.

If the Arminian God was inspiring Scripture, we would expect to see mistakes, as that is the nature of man's free will..to make mistakes. How would we know that a writer may make mistakes if free will is a part of the writer's nature?

Since this doctrine requires God's involvement directly in inspiring Scripture and in making it inerrant, the Arminian struggles with this concept as they do not believe that God intervenes directly in man's free will in order to accomplish His purpose.

Notice that I am not claiming God moves the author's hands or makes him into a robot. This robot caricature of Calvinism is addressed by the doctrine of compatibilism. A good article on this topic is here:

What is compatibilism?

It is notable that no Reformed (Calvinist) scholars challenge the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture, whereas a lot who are in the Arminian camp do so.

This is part of the reason why I associate with the Reformed (Calvinist) tradition and scholars associated with it..they are very conservative with regards to God's word, and are known from strong expository teaching. Even if I thought part of the doctrinal positions might be wrong, I'd still associate with them because they have more integrity doctrinally, as a whole, than Arminian theologians. It is very apparent that their commitment to God's word is supreme. The sermons I hear by Reformed individuals, as a whole, make sense and display clarity a lot more so than Arminians as a whole.

 

[John146]

I am not Arminian nor Calvinist, but I was wondering about your thought. How does your thought have to do with the free will of salvation? God used man to preserve His inspired words. Did God ever use an atheist to preserve His words into written form? Remember, Scripture is inspired, not the writers.

A big problem with Arminian theology, or general free-willers, is that they cannot adequately defend the doctrine of inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture very well, given their commitment to the presuppositions of man's free will and God's non-interference with free will.

Since this doctrine requires God's involvement directly in inspiring Scripture and in making it inerrant, the Arminian struggles with this concept as they do not believe that God intervenes directly in man's free will in order to accomplish His purpose.

Notice that I am not claiming God moves the author's hands or makes him into a robot. This robot caricature of Calvinism is addressed by the doctrine of compatibilism. A good article on this topic is here:

What is compatibilism?

It is notable that no Reformed (Calvinist) scholars challenge the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture, whereas a lot who are in the Arminian camp do so.

This is part of the reason why I associate with the Reformed (Calvinist) tradition and scholars associated with it..they are very conservative with regards to God's word, and are known from strong expository teaching. Even if I thought part of the doctrinal positions might be wrong, I'd still associate with them because they have more integrity doctrinally, as a whole, than Arminian theologians. In fact, I cannot think of one teacher who identifies himself as an Arminian that I would want to spend much time listening to.

 

[Grandpa]

We need ability because we are corrupt and don't have the strength of ourselves to do GOD's will.

Roger that.

It's what I've been saying.