Calvinism

[Charismatic-sts1]

I agree with your statement. The bible says we are to avoid fruitless discussion and philosophies which lead to mere speculation. Who is John Calvin but a mere man, no thank you I will seek the answers from Christ. Same goes for the Arminian guy.

 

[thecreationtutor]

It is very easy to throw names around isn't it?



See how this response twisted my words. Calvinists always do this. They cannot directly address legitimate criticism, they have to create strawmen to undermine such criticism. They are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt.

I never said that "people are good and do not deserve hell." I implied that BABIES are not born evil and thus already condemned. Those whom are condemned sinned by choice and are thus fully responsible for the misuse of their free agency in yielding to the lusts of the flesh and sinning.

God does not condemn people because they were born. God condemns people because they willfully rejected the light.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Cain was condemned because he rejected the light and chose to do evil.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Notice in the above passage how God tells Cain that "sin was lying at the door" but that he "should rule over sin." Cain rejected that counsel and let his jealousy consume him unto an act of murder.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin is a result of yielding to temptation, it is not necessitated by a birth state.

Instead of addressing these issue the Calvinist will often resort to Ad Hominem because their position collapses when its foundation is exposed.

Eve sinned due to being drawn away by her own lust and enticed, then her lust was conceived and it brought forth sin, and sin when it was finished brought forth death.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

That is why Christians crucify the lusts of the flesh (Gal 5:24) and live the crucified life (Gal 2:20). We are not to love the world nor the things in the world. Instead of walking after the lusts of the flesh we walk according to the leading of the Spirit.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Temptation is common to man but God does not suffer us to be tempted above that which we are able and thus we are always able to take the way of escape.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Calvinists teach the opposite. They teach that the "corruption remains" in those whom are regenerated and thus the regenerated "sin they will and sin they must" and therefore salvation is nothing but a provisional abstract cloak. Which brings us right back to the Calvinists denial of heart purity in salvation. Heart purity is the one topic they avoid like the plague.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

lol did you really answer the post that way - like you had a canned answer ready to go?

 

[thecreationtutor]

Sin is a noun, as much as a verb. Sin and death came through Adam - death through sin - read Genesis 5 - they all died, and died, and died. Sin is passed on through the father - this is why Jesus did not have an earthly father but was conceived by the fruit of the Holy Spirit - or Eve's seed - Genesis 3.

We are born dead to God, because of our sin nature as some call it, rather noun sin that dwells in us, unless you don't actually believe in a literal historical Genesis, as the Bible, Jesus, Paul etc teach. - which leads to semipelagianism. Does a baby deserve to go to hell - only because of what it is in relation to sin and a Holy God - Do I believe God is Just, and the Justifier - yes. Can I trust the Lord with all that mess, yes. Do I have to put an ultimatum on the character of God about it, no.

You don't have to use 'bias' texts, even though people who oppose it use their own 'bias' texts

the God of the Bible is - Omniscient, Omnipresent, Transcendent, Infinite, Holy Holy Holy, Eminent, Omnipotent

The Bible is a whole consistent message of the Grace of God towards bad people. The promises of Scripture are based on the Character of God - written above.

I don't see how it is hard to understand that God is in control of everything and it's not hard at all for him. Living it out is another story - we are finite, God is both infinite and finite at the same time.

I find more arguments against calvanist type doctrines is that it makes God out to be a monster according to their morality

 

[svedbygrace]

gj

Do you know the mind of God?

I know that Tulip is part of the Gospel. Do you know that ?

 

[Gjolll]

gj



I know that Tulip is part of the Gospel. Do you know that ?

I don't believe you know that. Not even Paul was given to know such things. 1Cr 13:9

Peter says 2Pe 1:10 "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble." And Paul says Rom 9:20 "But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?"

People who pretend to know things known only to God are frequently lying.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Why would the Calvinist care? According to most Calvinists if they are predestined to be saved they will be saved so we need do nothing.

You must not understand Calvinism. What a pity.

 

[jimmydiggs]

as much as semipelagianism is pure heresy

I beg to differ.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I agree with your statement. The bible says we are to avoid fruitless discussion and philosophies which lead to mere speculation. Who is John Calvin but a mere man, no thank you I will seek the answers from Christ. Same goes for the Arminian guy.

Most Charismatics are die-hard arminians.

 

[Gjolll]

I find more arguments against calvanist type doctrines is that it makes God out to be a monster according to their morality

No, it's the Calvinist use of the adjective that is immoral and makes God out to be immoral.

"Total" depravity
"Unconditional" election
"Necessary" perseverance
"Irresistible" grace
"Limited" atonement.

The bible even says that God's grace can be resisted, and that Christ died for all men. What's moral about contradicting the bible?

 

[notuptome]

You must not understand Calvinism. What a pity.

I seriously doubt that Calvin would understand Calvinism as it is taught today. I simply will not abide any teaching that perverts the bible. When Calvinism treads under foot the need for man to submit his will to God's will I believe we have a problem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[svedbygrace]

gj

I don't believe you know that.

Thats not what I asked you. I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?

 

[jimmydiggs]

I seriously doubt that Calvin would understand Calvinism as it is taught today. I simply will not abide any teaching that perverts the bible. When Calvinism treads under foot the need for man to submit his will to God's will I believe we have a problem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, you demonstrate you don't understand Calvinism. Not even the two you have created in this distinction (which doesn't really exist, but whatevs). You've created a straw man. A handsome one at that. If you're interested in understanding, I'd be happy to asisst. svedbygrace, though zealous, doesn't seem the best at communicating.

 

[GISMYS]

TODAY! DO WE BELIEVERS REALLY NEED 14TH CENTURY MONKS TO TELL US WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS?

 

[Gjolll]

gj



Thats not what I asked you. I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?

The Truths of TULIP Doctrines? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Are you really asking, have I been to one of Calvin's theological seminaries and waded through hefty tomes of Calvinist theology that rival Thomas Aquinas, Duns Scotus, William of Ockham and the scholastics for turgidity and intellectual vacuity? If so, the answer is No.

What I have done is read the latest English translation of Servetus's works, De Trinitatis Erroribus & Christianismi Restitutio. He says Calvin is an antichrist. I take his word on it.

 

[notuptome]

Again, you demonstrate you don't understand Calvinism. Not even the two you have created in this distinction (which doesn't really exist, but whatevs). You've created a straw man. A handsome one at that. If you're interested in understanding, I'd be happy to asisst. svedbygrace, though zealous, doesn't seem the best at communicating.

Seriously? What are the chances of you getting any two Calvinists to agree on what Calvinism represents?
T-total depravity-requires qualifiers to make sense. Man cannot save himself is OK.
U-unconditional election-requires qualification to make sense. Only elect in Christ not before.
L-limited atonement-really distasteful on it face requires qualification to make sense. Wholly adequate but efficacious only by faith.
I-irresistible grace-needs lots of qualification to make sense. Sin cannot over come grace but man can refuse to receive grace.
P-perseverance of the saints-yea needs qualification to make sense. Man cannot save himself and man cannot preserve himself it must be by Gods power that we are saved and sealed unto the day of redemption.

I may need to develop a free will Calvinist doctrine. Either that or a predestined Arminian one.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[2Thewaters]

calvin was a step out of the catholic church, Lutheranism was a step out of the catholic church, these were baby steps
We need to keep stepping out until we come into the pure knowledge of Jesus christ in his word, we have the entire word of God and we need to come out of anti-Bible churches and finally repair the breach and worhsip God so that the mystery of Godliness christ in us the hope of glory be finished. Dont stop at calvinism or you will fall away, keep stepping out. Leave those behind who done want to advance. God will bring them at their own pace. Turn to the word of God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[2Thewaters]

The biggest and last step is getting back to the true day of sanctification blessing of the holy spirit, Shabat, no one is going through who follows man instead of God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Seriously? What are the chances of you getting any two Calvinists to agree on what Calvinism represents?
T-total depravity-requires qualifiers to make sense. Man cannot save himself is OK.
U-unconditional election-requires qualification to make sense. Only elect in Christ not before.
L-limited atonement-really distasteful on it face requires qualification to make sense. Wholly adequate but efficacious only by faith.
I-irresistible grace-needs lots of qualification to make sense. Sin cannot over come grace but man can refuse to receive grace.
P-perseverance of the saints-yea needs qualification to make sense. Man cannot save himself and man cannot preserve himself it must be by Gods power that we are saved and sealed unto the day of redemption.

I may need to develop a free will Calvinist doctrine. Either that or a predestined Arminian one.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[svedbygrace]

The Truths of TULIP Doctrines? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Are you really asking, have I been to one of Calvin's theological seminaries and waded through hefty tomes of Calvinist theology that rival Thomas Aquinas, Duns Scotus, William of Ockham and the scholastics for turgidity and intellectual vacuity? If so, the answer is No.

What I have done is read the latest English translation of Servetus's works, De Trinitatis Erroribus & Christianismi Restitutio. He says Calvin is an antichrist. I take his word on it.

I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?

 

[Reformedjason]

I love how non Calvinist try to tell everyone what a Calvinist believes. Would it not be easier to ask a Calvinist what they believe ? I am not going to argue. I am not going to quote any of your non sense post and try to defend my position. If you want to ask a question and can carry on a logical conversation, I will answer your questions. I will ignore post that resort to name calling. If you want to discuss things with a Calvinist I am here.