Calvinism

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Nov 18, 2013
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#41
I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?
It's enough that Jesus did not teach them. Whilst I accept the fundamental principle that God is the source of all revelation and draws men to himself, I do not go further and maintain that it is based on mere arbitrary selection, as Calvinists maintain. There is nothing more antithetical to faith than to presuppose that predestination is based on arbitrary selection and there is nothing in the bible to suggest that it is.

Even Paul has a theory of why God had mercy on him:

1 Tim 1:13 "Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief."

In other words, he is saying that had he done the things that he had done in the full knowledge of Jesus, then he would never have believed. The divorcement of God's decisions from human activity is the greatest mistake made by Calvinists, for it seeks to put humans in God's place. It ordains a power of judgement that humans are not given.

Calvin was in an incredibly dangerous position in Geneva vis-a-vis being overtaken by pride. He was a theologian who also had great influence over the civil government. Let's take Servetus. Servetus had committed no crime on the territory of Geneva, but was prosecuted by Calvin and put to death nonetheless for violating the Justinian code in another country that had been imported from Byzantium. If he had done that today, he himself would probably have been executed for judicial murder or at least given life in prison. Contrariwise his brother's adulterous wife was merely expelled from the territory of Geneva even though what she had done was against the universal law of God. Thus by the standards of modern jurisprudence, Calvin can't be considered a good man at all.
 
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Jan 21, 2013
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#42
gj

It's enough that Jesus did not teach them
your jesus did,nt i'm sure, but that is not what I asked you.


I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?

First what does the T mean in that Doctrine ? Go find out then come back and tell me. Then tell me if you believe it, if not why not.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#43
gj



your jesus did,nt i'm sure, but that is not what I asked you.


I asked you did you know the Truths of TULIP Doctrines, what they state about God, Man and Salvation are Gospel Truths ?

First what does the T mean in that Doctrine ? Go find out then come back and tell me. Then tell me if you believe it, if not why not.
I already gave you calvinistic tulip above (see reference to Calvinstic adjectives) but it seems you can't or won't read anything I say. This does not surprise me as the first thing you learn about Calvinists is that they can only lecture you, like the Pharisees.

In opposition to Calvinism, T stands for "Translated." Elijah was translated into heaven indicating that he had found favour with God. Yet Calvin asserts that he was totally depraved. Utterly mystifying.
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#44
gj

I already gave you calvinistic tulip above
What does the T stand for ? Please tell us and then explain how it is not scripture truth.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#45
Calvin was a good man and everyone in the world was catholic back then, he did a good work comming out of Babylon, but you dont learn things instantly, God loved Calvin

but he wasnt right on everything, each generation learned more Bible truth and soon we will follow all of the Bible and Jesus will come!
We love Jesus and want to follow him (the word of God)
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#46
Calvin was a good man and everyone in the world was catholic back then, he did a good work comming out of Babylon, but you dont learn things instantly, God loved Calvin

but he wasnt right on everything, each generation learned more Bible truth and soon we will follow all of the Bible and Jesus will come!
We love Jesus and want to follow him (the word of God)
Calvin had many faults and they grew more pronounced as he got older, because no-one was able to rebuke him. He had too much power and was incapable of perceiving his faults. He became a tyrant, although was not always one.

Those who sought to rebuke him were subject to process of law. He built a system of theology largely based on what Roman Catholicism had been based on. Most people don't realize how many Catholic errors he adopted by relying on people like Augustine and Justinian.
 
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Nov 26, 2011
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#47
I love how non Calvinist try to tell everyone what a Calvinist believes. Would it not be easier to ask a Calvinist what they believe ? I am not going to argue. I am not going to quote any of your non sense post and try to defend my position. If you want to ask a question and can carry on a logical conversation, I will answer your questions. I will ignore post that resort to name calling. If you want to discuss things with a Calvinist I am here.
Why not address the issue of heart purity in salvation?

Calvinists clearly teach that human beings are Totally Depraved due to the corruption of Adam being inherited. On the first page of this topic I quoted verbatim from the Westminster Confession where it teaches that the regenerated Christian retains an inward corruption whereby the elect may still engage in vile behavior yet still remain in a saved position. Clearly "heart purity" is being denied as being connected to salvation for pure hearts to not produce vile behaviour. Evil hearts produce vile behaviour.

In the first chapter of 1 Peter it speaks of the new babes in Christ having cleansed their souls through obedience to the Spirit and that henceforth they are compelled to love one another with a pure heart. Such an admonition is completely at odds with the notion of an ongoing state of inward depravity in those whom are born again.

Jesus also clearly taught in Mat 5 that it is the pure in heart who will see God and then went onto explain that "inward sin" is just as bad as "outward sin" for all sin (sins unto death) are actually rooted in a heart condition, thus lust and unjust anger in the mind are sin. So a mere outward form of godliness like the Pharisees had is actually worthless because the real issue is the heart. This is why Jesus told the Pharisees to cleanse first that which is within that the outside be clean also. Yet the Calvinists teach that you cannot cleanse the inside because human beings lack ability due to being Totally Depraved.

What do you do with the issue of heart purity as it applies to salvation ReformedJason?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#48
lol did you really answer the post that way - like you had a canned answer ready to go?
Another example of a Calvinist simply blowing off the subject at hand. All you have contributed as it relates to what I have written is call me a Pelagian as well as misrepresent me by saying that I implied that wicked people did not deserve hell when I was very clear that it is BABIES who do not deserve hell.

Calvinist theology is baseless and only survives due to rhetoric and ignorance. I have found that those of a Calvinist persuasion generally will always attempt to divert the conversation in order to avoid issues they do not wish to discuss, issues such as heart purity in salvation.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#49
Calvinism (and Arminianism) teach that people can be in a "saved state" whilst they are still in the "service of sin." Thus they teach we are saved IN sin as opposed to being saved FROM sin. This is what I mean when I say they teach and "abstract salvation." The salvation they preach is totally devoid of an actual manifest heart transformation taking place. It is simply a "perception" and "assurance" of a STATUS they believe they have.

Satan, as a master theologian, has been able to obfuscate the real Gospel through perverting the basic philosophical underpinnings of the nature of man. When Augustine infected Christian thought with his notion of "inability" whereby it cemented in stone a foundation which would lead so many astray over the next 1600 years.

Jesus came to save people FROM sin, yet today the modern system basically implies that sin is more powerful than the grace of God because it is utterly denied that sin can be overcome in the flesh body.

The notion of "sin you will and sin you must" is the order of the day unfortunately.
 
Nov 15, 2013
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#50
Calvinism and Arminianism =IDEAS OF 14TH. CENTURY MONKS.WHY NOT READ,BELIEVE AND STUDY GOD'S WORD YOURSELF?
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#51
Calvinism and Arminianism =IDEAS OF 14TH. CENTURY MONKS.WHY NOT READ,BELIEVE AND STUDY GOD'S WORD YOURSELF?
JN Darby was just another gnostic. Why this rapture crap? Even if there is a second coming did the apostles go around saying WWIII tomorrow, Rapture soon, etc? No they did not. Infatuation with dispeyism is a gnostic cult, just like Calvinism.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#52
Another example of a Calvinist simply blowing off the subject at hand. All you have contributed as it relates to what I have written is call me a Pelagian as well as misrepresent me by saying that I implied that wicked people did not deserve hell when I was very clear that it is BABIES who do not deserve hell.

Calvinist theology is baseless and only survives due to rhetoric and ignorance. I have found that those of a Calvinist persuasion generally will always attempt to divert the conversation in order to avoid issues they do not wish to discuss, issues such as heart purity in salvation.
How can a wicked heart be pure, without the grace of God? Without God moving them towards repentance and faith that He gives? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by God's Holy Spirit speaking, convicting, and convincing them of sin?

9 How can a young man keep his way pure. By living according to your word. 10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands. 11 I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. 12 Praise be to you, O LORD; teach me your decrees 13 With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth. 14 I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches. 15 I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways. 16 I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word\

can our hearts be pure - purified by Grace. Are we ever sinless, no - can we be blameless yes but that's not sinless perfection. Generally it seems you must only talk to other Christians rather than actually talking with the lost. Seems more that your conversations are baseless as you just toss around ignorance and rhetoric like they make your conversation actually more valuable than it is, using words to appear as knowledge rather than having something to say. Knowledge puffs up
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#53
If only CC could agree, that they love Christ, accept Christ to be the one true God... And apart from God's mercy and accepting that God made an escape-goat so we could be with Him: that we are rightfully damned to hell...

Correct theology never got anyone to heaven... Look at the pharisees if you need proof...
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#54
I already gave you calvinistic tulip above (see reference to Calvinstic adjectives) but it seems you can't or won't read anything I say. This does not surprise me as the first thing you learn about Calvinists is that they can only lecture you, like the Pharisees.

In opposition to Calvinism, T stands for "Translated." Elijah was translated into heaven indicating that he had found favour with God. Yet Calvin asserts that he was totally depraved. Utterly mystifying.
is it not God who justifies - don't we need 2 people to die in Revelations...
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#55
is it not God who justifies - don't we need 2 people to die in Revelations...
I have no idea what you're referring to. God does not intentionally make everyone reprobate just to save them. Even Jesus said that he had not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 
R

Reformedjason

Guest
#56
Why not address the issue of heart purity in salvation?

Calvinists clearly teach that human beings are Totally Depraved due to the corruption of Adam being inherited. On the first page of this topic I quoted verbatim from the Westminster Confession where it teaches that the regenerated Christian retains an inward corruption whereby the elect may still engage in vile behavior yet still remain in a saved position. Clearly "heart purity" is being denied as being connected to salvation for pure hearts to not produce vile behaviour. Evil hearts produce vile behaviour.

In the first chapter of 1 Peter it speaks of the new babes in Christ having cleansed their souls through obedience to the Spirit and that henceforth they are compelled to love one another with a pure heart. Such an admonition is completely at odds with the notion of an ongoing state of inward depravity in those whom are born again.

Jesus also clearly taught in Mat 5 that it is the pure in heart who will see God and then went onto explain that "inward sin" is just as bad as "outward sin" for all sin (sins unto death) are actually rooted in a heart condition, thus lust and unjust anger in the mind are sin. So a mere outward form of godliness like the Pharisees had is actually worthless because the real issue is the heart. This is why Jesus told the Pharisees to cleanse first that which is within that the outside be clean also. Yet the Calvinists teach that you cannot cleanse the inside because human beings lack ability due to being Totally Depraved.

What do you do with the issue of heart purity as it applies to salvation ReformedJason?
To be clear , not all Calvinist hold to the Westminster confession. To answer your question. Romans teaches that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. At the time of salvation the heart is renewed but we know that the flesh still has it's fallen nature. Paul spoke about how he was the chief of all sinners. 1 john teaches that we all sin as does Romans 3. If you believe that you no longer sin because you have been saved, you are mistaken. Is my heart pure? No, it is Christ's heart that is pure an I have to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#57
If only CC could agree, that they love Christ, accept Christ to be the one true God... And apart from God's mercy and accepting that God made an escape-goat so we could be with Him: that we are rightfully damned to hell...

Correct theology never got anyone to heaven... Look at the pharisees if you need proof...
The Pharisees didn't have correct theology. That was their problem. They had created a God of their own.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#58
I have no idea what you're referring to. God does not intentionally make everyone reprobate just to save them. Even Jesus said that he had not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
In adam all die - Enoch and Elijah did not die - the 2 witnesses in revelations that are eventually stoned to death - could be them

Romans 5 - sin came through adam - all inherit adams sin - Adam and Eve - have you not read Genesis?