Calvinists are preaching a false message .

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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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#821
oyster67 said:
God could have limited salvation to only an elect and chosen few, but praise be to Jesus, He did not.
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Your statement is in direct contradiction with scripture:

Revelation 13 (New King James Version)

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)

15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21 (New King James Version)

The Glory of the New Jerusalem
22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#822
BenjaminN said:
Your statement is in direct contradiction with scripture:

Revelation 13 (New King James Version)

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
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This verse is not telling you "WHEN" the names were "written in" [/'have been written in'] the Lamb's Book of Life ;) (in relation to the time period being referenced, in the text).
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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#823
^ EDIT: meant to say "have not been" (rather than "have been written")... but same point I was making there ^ with regard to that text.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#824
throughfaith said:
If you mean ' draw ' by this ?
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That and also this: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
 
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throughfaith

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#825
Nehemiah6 said:
That and also this: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
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What we have is a verse that says ,Jesus ' draws ' ( After the cross) This verse doesn't say the Holy Spirit ' draws ' .
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#826
throughfaith said:
What we have is a verse that says ,Jesus ' draws ' ( After the cross) This verse doesn't say the Holy Spirit ' draws ' .
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Well if you cannot put two and two together, don't blame others if they conclude that you are clueless. You are also confusing Jesus with the Holy Spirit, which simply adds error to error.
 
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throughfaith

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#827
Nehemiah6 said:
Well if you cannot put two and two together, don't blame others if they conclude that you are clueless. You are also confusing Jesus with the Holy Spirit, which simply adds error to error.
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That's the issue. This is what has happened. We have teachings in which someone has put " two and two together ". I.m not confusing Jesus with anyone. The bible does not SAY the holy spirit ' draws ' . This is a ' teaching ' in Christianity without a verse . Pink is famous for claiming this in his book . Teachers are constantly saying this is so ,but there's not a verse . That's all I'm saying .
 
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throughfaith

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#828
Nehemiah6 said:
Well if you cannot put two and two together, don't blame others if they conclude that you are clueless. You are also confusing Jesus with the Holy Spirit, which simply adds error to error.
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I believe there are many teachings in which , someone has put ' two and two ' together and come out with 5 . There's nothing strange in the point im making . There are many instances where the bible could have easily ' said ' precisely the point some claim the bible is saying ( and being dogmatic about it ) . These are not like the topic of the trinity or some other issue in which our minds would struggle to grasp . There Just straight forward concepts in which the writers could have easily said .
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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#829
throughfaith said:
It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?
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Men everywhere = All of those from every generation who were appointed to eternal life by God's Sovereign choice before the world began.

God loved the world some much = All of those from every generation who were appointed to eternal life by God's Sovereign choice before the world began.

Include all of the scriptural information and not just partial.

Before creation, God according to His Sovereign will and purposes, had names whom He predestined for salvation throughout all of history, written in the book of life. Not everyone was appointed to eternal life except those whom God chose. Though this may be taught by Calvinists, it is also Biblical. God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy and He hardens whomever He wants to harden. He is not being unfair in His choice to save some and not others, because everyone, including those He saved, deserve eternal condemnation. God would be perfectly justified if allowed everyone to perish because all have sinned. Salvation is a free gift, not something anyone deserves or can earn. People don't like this teaching because it takes salvation out of the hands of mankind and puts in God's hands.
 
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throughfaith

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#830
Ahwatukee said:
Men everywhere = All of those from every generation who were appointed to eternal life by God's Sovereign choice before the world began.

God loved the world some much = All of those from every generation who were appointed to eternal life by God's Sovereign choice before the world began.

Include all of the scriptural information and not just partial.

Before creation, God according to His Sovereign will and purposes, had names whom He predestined for salvation throughout all of history, written in the book of life. Not everyone was appointed to eternal life except those whom God chose. Though this may be taught by Calvinists, it is also Biblical. God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy and He hardens whomever He wants to harden. He is not being unfair in His choice to save some and not others, because everyone, including those He saved, deserve eternal condemnation. God would be perfectly justified if allowed everyone to perish because all have sinned. Salvation is a free gift, not something anyone deserves or can earn. People don't like this teaching because it takes salvation out of the hands of mankind and puts in God's hands.
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I can't interact with wilful assertions. You quote a verse with an ' assertion ' as if the assertion IS what you think it means . I know what Calvinism teaches. I know you believe it . But your just parroting the system . Like word for word. Like an avatar of the paradigm. The clue is in ' calvin - ism '
Its as simple as that . Its false because of this . It could never be true based on this simple observation. ' Calvin - ism ' . This is not how we were supposed to understand the bible. If in another 50 years ( Lord willing ) another name rises up with ' ism ' at the end of it , the church should equally reject it based on this enormous red flag .
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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#831
BenjaminN said:
Your statement is in direct contradiction with scripture:

Revelation 13 (New King James Version)

8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)

15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21 (New King James Version)

The Glory of the New Jerusalem
22But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
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TheDivineWatermark said:
This verse is not telling you "WHEN" the names were "written in" [/'have been written in'] the Lamb's Book of Life ;) (in relation to the time period being referenced, in the text).
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God's Scripture disagree with you on this: God declares the end from the beginning, and He does all His pleasure. God appoints his elect humankind to eternal life, they DO NOT and CANNOT appoint themselves to eternal life, in some kind of a humanistic, satanic fashion.

Isaiah 46 (New King James Version)

8“Remember this, and show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

Any so-called "Christian" doctrine, diminishing any of all the glory belonging to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the salvation of God's elect, is a false humanistic, satanic doctrine.
 
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BenjaminN

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#832
throughfaith said:
What we have is a verse that says ,Jesus ' draws ' ( After the cross) This verse doesn't say the Holy Spirit ' draws ' .
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God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is ONE.

Deuteronomy 6 (New King James Version)

4“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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#833
throughfaith said:
I can't interact with wilful assertions. You quote a verse with an ' assertion ' as if the assertion IS what you think it means . I know what Calvinism teaches. I know you believe it . But your just parroting the system . Like word for word. Like an avatar of the paradigm. The clue is in ' calvin - ism '
Its as simple as that . Its false because of this . It could never be true based on this simple observation. ' Calvin - ism ' . This is not how we were supposed to understand the bible. If in another 50 years ( Lord willing ) another name rises up with ' ism ' at the end of it , the church should equally reject it based on this enormous red flag .
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What are you advocating, throughMYfaith-ism? I sure hope I'm being interpreted as advocating Christ Yeshua-ism, as that is my sole goal when bring God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's Gospel Word to God's elect people scattered throughout the world among every tribe, tongue and nation...

Acts 1 (New King James Version)

6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#834
Nehemiah6 said:
That and also this: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
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Revelation 22:16-17


Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20 :)
 
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throughfaith

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#836
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,

How are we to understand the bible. What is the correct hermeneutic?
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How we approach the bible is key .
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,

How are we to understand the bible. What is the correct hermeneutic?
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Its how we approach the bible. This a choice of course. I start with ' the bible is from God . God cannot lie and i believe what it says. The discoverable meaning of the text. Asking who , why ,what and when questions. Who is the Author , who is the audience , where is it on the timeline of events , the central theme, ect ect . I believe what it SAYS with the above in mind .
Many verses give us the instruction on how to approach the bible.
2 Timothy 2:15

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
 
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throughfaith

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#837
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,

How are we to understand the bible. What is the correct hermeneutic?
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What i notice from some is that there ' doctrines/ teachings override the text when the texts conflict with the system. This is done without realising so ,sometimes. Like with the words 'all 'everyone 'world ect .
 
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throughfaith

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#838
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,

How are we to understand the bible. What is the correct hermeneutic?
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A bad approach is to start with an idea in your head ,or doctrines ,or a system and then go looking for verses that support the system .
 
phil36

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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#839
Hi throughfaith,

Thanks for your answers.


throughfaith said:
A bad approach is to start with an idea in your head ,or doctrines ,or a system and then go looking for verses that support the system
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I agree with the above. Sola Scriptura.

How do you know if you have the right understanding of what the bible is saying?
 
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throughfaith

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#840
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,

Thanks for your answers.




I agree with the above. Sola Scriptura.

How do you know if you have the right understanding of what the bible is saying?
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Using what I explained already ( a consistent hernanutical approach drawn from the text ) We try understand what the text actually says and mark that down . We should know that we have bias and presuppositions that we constantly need to realise that hinders our understanding of what it'says and not what its claimed to ' teach ' . If you have learned Calvinism this would put you at a severe disadvantage, because now you have a ideological set of glasses which you see the text through. I would say how we know is based on consistency and context . Trusting we can believe what it says apart from a system .
 
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