Can a Christian be sinless, perfect?

[StrugglingChristian32]

1 John 1:8-10New International Version (NIV)


8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[tribesman]

Peace Tribesman, thanks, I was one of those who lost some of my responses

Happened to me as well. Several of my posts have disappeared here and elsewhere, without any notice/s at all. Quiet disturbing to be honest. We shall see if we will be further informed by those in know of this.

But in short, I was just referring to how an apostle pointed out the perfect man not men.

And I do not see words such as "sinlessly perfect" even used in scripture that way.

Those two words placed together like that is something men typically do, like create a couple of words and then just say he doesnt say these exact words which I always thought was kind of strange.

Like if I said to you, where are the words perfectly godly? Or perfectly holy?

I mean what would even see the point of that?

And maybe that wasnt the best example of what I mean.

But given the tongue is referred to as a world of iniquity (and that "no man" can tame the tongue) James just tells us what the perfect man would look like (in relation to the same). He goes into how we all offend in many things but he says the perfect man does not in word.

Again, what would that look like if we minus the Pharisees who WERE actually offended at Jesus words (ironically) when he spoke of what comes out of ones mouth defiles the man not what goes into it.

And so we see they were offended at his words.

So James didnt stop there, he goes to further show this man (the one he notes as the perfect man) ability, and says he is "ABLE ALSO to bridle the whole body".

Would be a cool study.

I agree here.

My use of the phrase "perfectly sinless" was in reference to those here who actually hold to that false teaching of "sinless perfection". The perfection of believers that the scriptures speak of is far different from what this crowd thinks about same.

 

[DiscipleDave]

James defines the perfect man doesnt he?

Yes he does.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

^i^ responding to post #212

 

[DiscipleDave]

James does not imply that this perfect man is "perfectly sinless" and literally equally perfect as God is perfect.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

What does "if any man does not offend in Word" mean to you?

^i^ responding to post #213

 

[DiscipleDave]

Anyone elses posts disapearing? I lost one here and in recipes

Christianchat.com was having technical difficulties yesterday, from what i understand they had to do a system reset, and many posts were inadvertently deleted.

^i^ responding to post #214

 

[DiscipleDave]

James does not imply that this perfect man is "perfectly sinless" and literally equally perfect as God is perfect.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus tells us we can be perfect even as the Father is perfect, what do you say?

^i^ responding to post #213

 

[monkey_man1983]

We will never perfect as God but we can be perfect through God

 

[slave]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

Oh how sweet the message is! We humans are everything a thing can be that is not godly. Yet, because of the gift of God thru His Son on a cross, we are made new creations, not the same and adding- gifted, but truly a different thing altogether. By His perfection and History We ourselves are Holy. That is the most powerful message we can gather in our life.

Yet, we get stuck with the "Well, then why is God the only one who is good?" It is simple: "The gospel is a gift to our poverty, not a triumph to our resources." So, God blankets our badness? NO! He Himself has entered into our bad selves and told Satan what's up, Because we believed and received His more than conquering victory on a cross over Satan, which includes any outside influences. We are by our simple, but highly empowered... "will"... able to accept Gods gift of narrow purity, or not. And we actually change from within, if we do, believe and receive Him.... Not in theory, and not regulated to a part- time position in it, but a full-time position. This is what He requires.

How is this to be done? And what about the statement ... "we cannot be good like God?" Here is the simple part: this is all true! It is a statement of fact but not conclusion. Because anything outside of faith in Him is separation from our victory in Him. We can never detach ourselves from Him in way of our victory, not even for a second.

The perfection was never in us, even tho we become perfect, It was always to be found in Christ Jesus, but the new us is all inclusive in the me and Him department. We are to be perfect, because He is perfect and Good in us, becoming us. The premise never leaves who is perfect- God thru Jesus, and Jesus is God.And now God thru Jesus in us casting out all unrighteousness. We are dead {eternally so, never to have hope return to the old man} except for the hope in the New Man in Christ restored in our being..

But sin is still a being of death, that never has changed. thus the statement God leaves us: "And this is the testimony- God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son, He who has the Son has life, He who does not have the Son of God does not have eternal life." And this is a condition of eternal fortitude to be wrought out in us over our lifetime and transformed into the same relationship in glory forever and ever.. It is finished and He has won. Thus we have won, IF we receive Him, but as a gift to our poverty not our triumph!. It is really not complicated, we are dead never to be useful again, but He is worthy to have come to us first and by way of the cross has come to take us unto Himself, Spiritually and experientially. are empowered by Him to be more than we could ever have been without Him. And we are not fixed we are reborn. Having died ourselves along the base of the cross.

Can we survive a day without sin, yes, but it by the measure of your faith found in us,God is Perfect, Jesus is God and is also perfect, our relationship thru the perfection thru the triune Holy Spirit is also perfect. But we tend to battle as young children for the right to ourselves still. It is not a matter of offered success but in understanding how surrendered we must be to receive it practically. God is not interested in the score sheet in success but in the totality of your hearts surrender in His success over sin., and as a result, the transforming understanding of what He is, or what love is, and how much sin must never reign in us, becomes complete. He is faithful and will forgive confessed sin, but He has given us power over it, and if any part of us, our mind, our body and our soul step away from Him, even for a second, sin separates us from our victory, That being , Jesus Christ, and God the Father thru Jesus Christ. we need to learn to always move forward into the flames with Him, for there is no other choice, and He will be faithful. You have His Word on it!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Ephesians 4:30
King James Version(KJV)

30.)And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
+++
In the spirit we have eternal security.
+++
Romans 7:16-18
King James Version(KJV)

16.)If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17.)Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18.)For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
+++
In our flesh we sin.

 

[Sirk]

If God could be caught would He be a God worth catching?

 

[fredoheaven]

1 John 1:8-10New International Version (NIV)


8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Hi,

A Christian may not be a perfect in what he does but perfect because of what God does. A Christian is not sinless but he sin less.

God cares kabayan,

 

[Laodicea]

Yes we can be but not by our own works only by having on Christ's robe of righteousness.

 

[thecreationtutor]

you can be blameless - ie - no unconfessed sin

 

[AbbeyJoy]

We aren't made to be perfect but to do the best we can, and to follow Jesus. Its not about works but about faith and trusting in God and walk with Him. we may fail but God still loves us no matter what. We just have to put our trust in Him no matter what

 

[Babylonisfalling]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

No we cannot, but God is merciful enough to view us that way if we acknowledge our sinfulness and accept Christ's Old Testament style sacrifice of himself on the cross. Basically, Christ willingly humbled himself into becoming the final, ultimate, all time sacrifice for everything at a time when animals were being constantly sacrificed for ongoing sins. Christ willingly reduced himself in that way to a bull or a goat to be used for the redemption of all men once and for all instead of the ongoing cycle of killing off animals to pay for our ongoing sins.

As far as the command to be perfect goes, I read that as a command to strive to be perfect. John tells us that anyone who says they are without sin deceives themselves. We know from that we cannot be sinless.

 

[gotime]

​Really! Is it possible that we can survive one day without sin?
Why did Jesus command such an impossible thing when He said, "Be perfect even as your Father which is heaven is perfect", and then contradicting, "No one is good accept God"

once you can see how they do not contradict but are in complete harmony then you will have your answer.