Can a Christian Become Lost, and Not Go to Heaven? OSAS?

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K

Kaycie

Guest
#1
Can a Christian Become Lost, and Not Go to Heaven if they die in that lost state?

'Once saved always saved' seems to be a big, no a huge, topic on this site. Even other topic titles end up in this discussion. So I wanted to really dig deep instead of just posting a couple scriptures, to see what the bible says about it once and for all...


Some say once you become a Christian, you never lose your salvation. Is this true according to the scriptures?


God is the author of Scripture, and we can believe the Bible because God was behind the writing of every verse, every chapter, and every book. We can trust it to give us the truth that God wanted us to know, truth that is sufficient to lead us to eternal life.


The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" suggests the Christian, once truly saved, can never do anything to lose his (or her) salvation and be finally lost in hell. This belief says that Christians have an unconditional security in Christ. They suggest that any person who appears to be a Christian and then falls away was never truly converted in the first place. They say that Christians do sin; but when they sin, they are punished for it in this life and forfeit privileges in heaven, but not entrance into heaven.


But is heaven conditional? And what is a condition? A conditional statement is usually introduced by words such as “if” or “unless.” When Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent, you will perish, we understand repentance is a condition to keep from being lost. When the Bible says, “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.” That’s from 1 John 1, verses 6 and 7. You see, there are conditions.


2 Peter chapter 2, verses 20 to 22 says, “For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, ‘A Dog Returns To Its Own Vomit,’ and, ‘A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.’ ” That’s a reading from God’s Holy Word.


The doctrine of once saved, always saved is built upon the belief that God’s grace is unconditional. Some say once grace is given, a Christian cannot lose it. But the doctrine of unconditional security ignores the conditional, qualifying statements in Scripture about whom the grace of God saves. Several passages show that our salvation is conditional. We must remain faithful to God.


For instance, the Lord Jesus said in John 8 and verse 51, “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” But what happens if a person stops keeping God’s Word? The Lord said in John 15, verses 1 to 2, “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.” Now, when a branch in Christ no longer bears fruit, it’s taken away. And then John 15, verse 6 says, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” Well, this is the end of a Christian who will not bear fruit.


Moreover, how Christians live morally matters. Now, a Christian who turns to fleshly passions can lose his soul, but one who puts away sin can live with God. Romans 8, verses 12 to 13 says, “So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—for if you are living according to the flesh, (that is ‘you brethren’) you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.” Morality is a condition of our salvation.


The Lord expects His people to hold firmly to their faith. You see, our salvation depends on it. First Corinthians 15, verses 1 and 2 says, “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which also you stand, and by which you are saved, IF you hold fast the word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.” Now, if they don’t hold firmly to their faith, they will have believed in vain and they could lose their salvation.


Colossians 1, verses 21 to 23 says, “And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, (that is before you became Christians) you were engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you (that is you have become a Christian) in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless beyond reproach—IF indeed you CONTINUE in the faith firmly established and STEADFAST, and NOT MOVED AWAY from the HOPE of the gospel which you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.” You see, holding firmly to the gospel is a condition of our salvation.


Remaining active in the church, especially in our attendance, is also a condition of our salvation. In Hebrews 10 and verse 25, the inspired writer noted that some Christians had forsaken assembling with the church. In response to this, he said in verses 26 to 27, “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, then there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.” Yes, a Christian who quits on God can lose the blessing of eternal life. God expects us to stay involved in church as long as we’re able.
The second epistle of Peter was written to Christians urging them to remain faithful and not to fall away to immorality or false teaching.


Second Peter 2, verses 20 and 21 says, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, (now these people are Christians) and they are again entangled in these things and they are overcome, that the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them” Now, this clear Scripture shows that if a Christian gets overcome by sin, he can find himself worse off than before he became a Christian. It would have been better if he had never known the way of the Lord.
First John 1, verses 6 to 7, the Bible says, “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.”


Now, our freedom from sin is conditional on whether we follow the Lord or follow the world. Now, I’ve presented several conditions that God has placed on our salvation. If there were only one Scriptural condition on this list that would be enough to show that our salvation is conditional.


Now, in addition, the Scriptures often warn Christians to remain faithful and committed to the Lord. For instance, Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9, verses 24 to 27, “Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? You run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore (Paul says) I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and I make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.” Paul knew that he could lose his crown of life if he didn’t discipline himself and stay free from sin.


In Galatians chapter 5, verses 19 to 21 Paul warned the Galatian Christians about the deeds of the flesh. And he said, “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, (who, ‘you Christians’) just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Now, why would Paul forewarn Christians about these sins keeping them out of heaven, if Christians couldn’t lose their salvation?


Our faith and commitment to Christ is a lifetime effort. The Lord Jesus said in John 5, verse 24 that, “whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” Now, this passage says the believer possesses eternal life but it doesn’t say anything about the person who stops believing or stops hearing the word. John 8:51 says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that if anyone keeps my word, he shall never see death.” But what about the person who quits keeping the Word? Well, John 3 and verse 36 says that, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." You see, one has eternal life as long as he believes and obeys. But if he stops believing or obeying, he can lose that life.


Can a person stop believing? Well, some think not, but we have an example in Scripture of Israel coming out of Egypt. Study Psalm 106 very closely. Psalm 106, verse 12 says, “Then they believed His word; They sang His praise.” But verse 13 says, “They quickly forgot His works.” By the time you get to verse 21 the Bible says, “They forgot God their Savior.” And Psalm 106, verses 24 to 25 says, “Then they despised the pleasant land; They did not believe in His word, But grumbled in their tents; They did not listen to the voice of the LORD.” Can people stop believing? Well, the Israelites did.


In the parable of the sower, Jesus described different kinds of soil: the soil beside the road, the rocky soil, the thorny soil, and then there’s the good soil. Well, these types of soil actually describe people’s hearts. Jesus tells how the Word of God or the seed is planted in the thorny soil and then what happens. The Lord said in Luke 8 and verse 13, “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.” You see, they stopped believing. Sadly, we’ve all known people like this.


Paul predicted in 1Timothy 4 and verse 1, “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.” When you stop listening to the Lord and you will pay attention to others, the point comes when you stop believing. You see, to believe in the Lord Jesus means you believe what He teaches. How can you say you believe the Lord if you will not accept the things that He teaches?


Now consider Hebrews 3, verses 12 to 14, now this was written to brothers in Christ. The Bible says, “Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that FALLS AWAY from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ‘Today,’ so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For if we become partakers of Christ, (we have become partakers of Christ, rather) IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm UNTIL the end.” You see, to fall away is to abandon the Lord willfully. These brothers, they had been deceived by sin and then hardened by that sin and they lost their faith. Again, we’re partakers of Christ only if we hold firm our faith to the end.


Now, at this point someone says, “ Don’t you know that no one can snatch us out of the Lord’s hand? Don’t you know that we can never be separated from God’s love?” Yes, I well know those two precious promises; the first found in John 10, verse 27 to 29; and the second in Romans 8, verses 35 to 39. They say that no one and nothing can separate us from God. These verses, however, don’t take into account what happens to a person who decides to separate himself from God. Jude 21 advises us to "keep yourselves in the love of God”; and John 15, verses 9 to 10 teaches that we must abide in his love. Now, no one else can separate us from God, but we can decide to leave the Lord. Christians can choose to fall away! We can choose to leave God. Free will is for everyone, God will not force us to come to Him, or to stay with Him.


Another person objects, “Well, if a Christian falls away, he was never truly converted in the first place.” Are you sure? You’ve never changed your mind? The Bible says in Hebrews 6, verses 4 to 6, “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame.”


Now, it’s clear these people were once Christians. They were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the experience, (they have experienced rather) the Word of God and the powers of the age to come. You couldn’t have these spiritual blessings outside of Christ. You can’t fall away from something unless you were first part of it. These Christians fell away by willfully rejecting Jesus Christ. Others could not get them to repent, because they didn’t want to repent. To fall away is a willful choice to abandon the faith.


In a different situation the book of Galatians speaks of Christians who followed a different gospel than Paul preached by binding circumcision and the Law on Gentile Christians. Paul said in Galatians 5 and verse 4, “You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” Here are people under the grace of God, but they fell away from it and severed themselves from Christ. To be severed implies that they first belonged to Him. A Christian can fall from grace; and I pray, my friend, that you never do.


Thank God for a second law of pardon for Christians who sin. You know, even when a Christian strays from the truth, God has a way for him to return to salvation. Like the prodigal son, he can come home to God. My friend, nothing, nothing is worth losing your soul over.


When Simon the Sorcerer in Acts chapter 8 offered money to buy the apostles’ gift, Peter rebuked him for his sin. In Acts 8, verses 21 to 24 Peter said, “You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” Now, God expects Christians to repent of their sins and to ask for forgiveness, if they wish to be pardoned.


God expects Christians to repent of their sins and to ask for forgiveness, if they wish to be pardoned. The Bible says in 1 John 1, verse 9 that, “IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” God is faithful to His people. He will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, if...if...we confess our sins, repent of them, and ask for his forgiveness. God offers pardon, but there are conditions to our forgiveness. Meeting conditions won’t earn you salvation; but if you fail to meet them, you can’t enjoy the grace and blessing of God.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
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#2
Legalism sucks the life out of people, yet they want everyone to beleive the same as them and will start thousands of threads on the subject with each post containing 10,000 + words, then they have to reply line by line to other posts with thousands of words.

People using Once Saved ALways Saved as an excuse to continue with old life and ignore God are spiritually dead and not going to heaven anyway.

Every genuine beleiver who knows Christ and accepted Christ and made a commitment to follow Christ, under goes change and transformation.

Christ tells us he is the perfect good shepherd, the perfect shepherd will not give up on his sheep who are lost.

Do you want to really live in fear that you are not going to heaven because for a few weeks you get annoyed with God over something and stop talking to God?
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#3
Hmm, one of the first to post on OSAS?
I'm sorry if you covered this....


I think it can be summed up as simple as this....

The Book of Life can be looked at like ALL names start/or get there, and then He TAKES away our name from the book, if we stray, were never or don't eventually become saved (Rev 3:5 and Rev 22:19) The "lose it" idea. (as some put it)

....OR it can be looked at like we have to have it written in there at some point of our lives by God, through our belief/faith and following of Christ, and it remains there. (Rev 13:8) ---OSAS.

OSAS or losing our salvation, can both have great arguments.
If one is not sure how it is done 100%, then we shouldn't scare those, by making assumptions either way, or pushing guesswork theology, I believe.

My opinion:
Everyone stands a chance at some point. .........and you get saved ONCE..... and you remain saved.
You can't lose something that is found, when it comes to Christ.
Let's trust Him on this one.

Logically OSAS makes sense ,
Why?...... I don't think that God Almighty, the creator of all the universe, has the Book of Life surrounded by pens, white out and erasers.

I still feel a debate will be coming though.......maybe?
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#4

Why?...... I don't think that God Almighty, the creator of all the universe, has the Book of Life surrounded by pens, white out and erasers.
lol at scribbling out, eraser marks, white out and highlighters in the Book of Life, hahah. That is essentially what opponents of OSAS must believe.

And OP this topic is talked about ALL the time on here, not sure where you are getting it is not talked a lot from.

In my opinion, yes, OSAS is correct if one does not voluntarily depart from the Lord. If one deliberately renounces his belief, and picks up every sin and pleasure under the sun without repenting, how can he be saved?

But for the average believer, the typical ones, there will be ebb and flow. There will be times of success at living for the Lord and times of failure.

We are not perfect, the Bible clearly says that if we say we are without sin the truth is not in us.

Jesus died for ALL of our imperfections, that is why we will glorify and praise His Name forever.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#5
Legalism sucks the life out of people, yet they want everyone to beleive the same as them and will start thousands of threads on the subject with each post containing 10,000 + words, then they have to reply line by line to other posts with thousands of words.

People using Once Saved ALways Saved as an excuse to continue with old life and ignore God are spiritually dead and not going to heaven anyway.

Every genuine beleiver who knows Christ and accepted Christ and made a commitment to follow Christ, under goes change and transformation.

Christ tells us he is the perfect good shepherd, the perfect shepherd will not give up on his sheep who are lost.

Do you want to really live in fear that you are not going to heaven because for a few weeks you get annoyed with God over something and stop talking to God?
A leagalistic attitude adds rules where there are no rules. But law abiding citizens (of God) hear HIS rules and follow them, and teach others to do the same. And as I said in the beginning of this post, BECAUSE this topic is talked about so much on here I did not want to just post a couple verses, but to dig deep and show you what the Word of God says about it. And, although it may seem annoying, it is always nessesary to go over bible topics again. Someone might be hearing it for the first time, and someone might see something they didn't consider before- this a Christian's job. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else on here, nor do I force anyone to read what they don't want to read. But I do supply it to those who may want to dig deep.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#6
lol at scribbling out, eraser marks, white out and highlighters in the Book of Life, hahah. That is essentially what opponents of OSAS must believe.

And OP this topic is talked about ALL the time on here, not sure where you are getting it is not talked a lot from.

In my opinion, yes, OSAS is correct if one does not voluntarily depart from the Lord. If one deliberately renounces his belief, and picks up every sin and pleasure under the sun without repenting, how can he be saved?

But for the average believer, the typical ones, there will be ebb and flow. There will be times of success at living for the Lord and times of failure.

We are not perfect, the Bible clearly says that if we say we are without sin the truth is not in us.

Jesus died for ALL of our imperfections, that is why we will glorify and praise His Name forever.
You say that OSAS is correct IF one does not voluntarily depart from God- this is my whole point- that IF you depart from God you are no longer in a saved state. And by you yourself using the word 'if' (like God does) admit that staying saved is conditional. (respectfully speaking).
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#7
What power in heaven or earth can separate us from the love of God?

Who is strong enough to break into Gods temple and steal that which God has sealed for Himself?

Nobody in Noah's ark were struggling to get out only those on the outside struggling to get in. And that to no avail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#8
What power in heaven or earth can separate us from the love of God?

Who is strong enough to break into Gods temple and steal that which God has sealed for Himself?

Nobody in Noah's ark were struggling to get out only those on the outside struggling to get in. And that to no avail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I've already addressed everything you said here in the main body of the post. See this is why it's so long, there are so many kinds of responses to address. It is all God's word, so if you don't want to take the time to read it, then you don't want to listen to a messenger that He sent. There are ways to make the words bigger and more comfortable to read. It's not as long as a book, but the length is nessesary and as short as I could make it to cover all the responses I've heard. Sometime when you're not busy, you could make yourself a cup of coffee, sit and relax, and read it without feeling rushed, and consider what it says. If you want to.
 
R

riverlandfarmer

Guest
#9
The bible says we are saved by faith. If we are saved by OUR faith and not God's love or faith then to say we can't backslide is to say we cannot change our mind. It's ridiculous to believe OSAS even if you could prove it with scripture. We are not robots but given a choice. If we could never backslide then why does the majority of the bible tell us how to live for the lord so we are not under the dominion of sin. If one can't backslide then why do they still face temptation to sin. Wouldn't Satan understand that he has already lost that soul. Even if OSAS teachers are correct (and I hope they are) it is a very dangerous belief system.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#11
Can a Christian Become Lost, and Not Go to Heaven if they die in that lost state?

'Once saved always saved' seems to be a big, no a huge, topic on this site. Even other topic titles end up in this discussion. So I wanted to really dig deep instead of just posting a couple scriptures,
to see what the bible says about it once and for all...
Remember, Jesus lived and taught, under the old conditional covenant, people who had no knowledge of the new unconditional covenant.

When Jesus many times conditions the kingdom on keeping his word, he does not add
(because the unconditional* new covenant of Heb 8:9-10 was not yet in effect at that time)
that true believers in the new covenant will keep his word because
they are born again by the Holy Spirit.

That revelation is not given until the epistles (e.g., Php 1:6; 1Th 5:23-24; Heb 10:14; 1Pe 1:5),
which are after his atoning death and the establishment of the unconditional new covenant (Lk 22:20).

* unconditional - conditioned on no actions of man, but a gift of free grace, and its gifts of
faith (Php 1:29; Ac 18:27; 2Pe 1:1; Ro 12:3),
righteousness (Ro 5:17) and
repentance (2Ti 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).

Now, it’s clear these people were once Christians. They were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the experience, (they have experienced rather) the Word of God and the powers of the age to come. You couldn’t have these spiritual blessings outside of Christ. You can’t fall away from something unless you were first part of it. These Christians fell away by willfully rejecting Jesus Christ. Others could not get them to repent, because they didn’t want to repent. To fall away is a willful choice to abandon the faith.
The letter to the Hebrews was written to Hebrew Christians who were considering a return to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.
The writer warns them that if they decide to reject Christ and go back to Judaism, there can be no forgiveness of their sin and they will die in their sin while in Judaism, because they are rejecting the only sacrifice for their sin and there is no sacrifice left for them (Heb 10:26). They are as the condemned Jews who crucified Jesus in rejection of him.

In a different situation the book of Galatians speaks of Christians who followed a different gospel than Paul preached by binding circumcision and the Law on Gentile Christians. Paul said in Galatians 5 and verse 4, “You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” Here are people under the grace of God, but they fell away from it and severed themselves from Christ. To be severed implies that they first belonged to Him. A Christian can fall from grace; and I pray, my friend, that you never do.
They have fallen from the power of grace for their salvation, and have returned to the power of their works to save.
They have thereby placed themselves outside the scope of divine favor, because gaining God's grace by observing the law and receiving it by grace are mutually exclusive (Ro 4:14, Gal 3:11).
 
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P

psychomom

Guest
#12
wow, Kaycie, that must have taken some time to write up and type out,
so, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

i disagree with most of it, but i can recognize thoughtful labor when i see it. :)
(not trying to be adversarial...just that while we don't agree, i do appreciate the time
and effort and love it took for your OP)
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#13
You can’t fall away from something unless you were first part of it. These Christians fell away by willfully rejecting Jesus Christ.
You can fall away from your profession of faith, which is the NT meaning of the word,
which does not necessarily mean you really possess faith, as those of Mt 7:21-23 and Lk 8:13 did not,
because they did not have the root of rebirth.

They were never part of saving faith.
 
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Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#14
So how does God remove peoples names from the Book of Life? Love the image of earasers and correction fluid !
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#15
It is all God's word ... consider what it says.
Roger, for the cause of Christ (really?), and others like him,
are obviously not interested in your warnings ...

IMO, they prefer to continue in their sins and hope for the best.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#16
Osas is a huge topic on here and it actually is an argument between legalism and saved by grace through faith. It comes down to an argument of who is Sovereign us or God. If we believe we are the sovereign ones then no osas is not true. If we believe God is Sovereign then osas is true. Who is in control us or God? If you believe you can save yourself then osas will never be true. If you believe God is the one who saves osas will always be true.

So take it to the cross. Did Jesus save or did Jesus just die? If Jesus saves then His flock will never be lost. If Jesus just died then you will be lost.

How do we know who are the true Christians and who are not in Jesus hand? By love! Are you willing to die for me? I am willing to die for you. Though it cannot be done, would you be willing as Paul and Moses to give up your salvation for someone else? I would.

If your name is written in the book of life then you can never lose your salvation. And by the way if your name is written there then it was there before you were born.

OSAS? Yeah, as God does not change His mind and nothing you or I can do will change His mind. God's Will is never in any way changed by anything we do.

If we can change God in any way shape or form then God is not sovereign. So, is your God Sovereign? Mine is.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#17
So how does God remove peoples names from the Book of Life? Love the image of earasers and correction fluid !
In order for one's name to be removed/erased/blotted out, it would have to have been there before- in other words, this one had to have been saved and now is no longer. You imply that God does not blot out names from the Book of Life once they're in there, but that is not what the scriptures say...

Deuteronomy 29:19,20 When such a person hears the words of this oath and they invoke a blessing on themselves, thinking, "I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way," they will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. The LORD will never be willing to forgive them; his wrath and zeal will burn against them. All the curses written in this book will fall on them, and the LORD will blot out their names from under heaven.

Revelation 22:18 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#18
Is God Omniscient? Is God Immutable? Is God Sovereign? God already knows who's names are in the book of life. So to say OSAS isn't true is to remove any or all of these attributes of God thus making God not God.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#19
Yeah, as God does not change His mind
and nothing you or I can do will change His mind.
You need to take a long sabbatical ... and read the Bible.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#20
Osas is a huge topic on here and it actually is an argument between legalism and saved by grace through faith. It comes down to an argument of who is Sovereign us or God. If we believe we are the sovereign ones then no osas is not true. If we believe God is Sovereign then osas is true. Who is in control us or God? If you believe you can save yourself then osas will never be true. If you believe God is the one who saves osas will always be true.

So take it to the cross. Did Jesus save or did Jesus just die? If Jesus saves then His flock will never be lost. If Jesus just died then you will be lost.

How do we know who are the true Christians and who are not in Jesus hand? By love! Are you willing to die for me? I am willing to die for you. Though it cannot be done, would you be willing as Paul and Moses to give up your salvation for someone else? I would.

If your name is written in the book of life then you can never lose your salvation. And by the way if your name is written there then it was there before you were born.

OSAS? Yeah, as God does not change His mind and nothing you or I can do will change His mind. God's Will is never in any way changed by anything we do.

If we can change God in any way shape or form then God is not sovereign. So, is your God Sovereign? Mine is.
Both sides agree that Jesus didn't just die, that people really can be saved. The difference is one side believes it is possible to lose that salvation, and the other side believes it is impossible to lose that salvation. And I'm not arguing, just discussing it, and sharing scriptures to consider. I have no negative feelings toward anyone here. Discussing scriptures is what this site is for.