Can a christian lose their salvation

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Can a christian lose their salvation?

  • yes

    Votes: 24 39.3%

  • no

    Votes: 37 60.7%
  • Total voters
    61
K

KennethC

Guest
#181
#181
peacefulbeliever said:
I never said anything was speaking of unbelievers . . . You didn't answer any of my questions . . .



"AN UNBELIEVER HAS NEVER CONFESSED JESUS CHRIST AS LORD . . . . so NO they do not have salvation!"

This was said in response to the following:
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You can not excuse one group that reject Christ over another, that just can't be done.........

We can not say its fair nor does it speak justice if one group who rejects Christ gets salvation over another group that rejects Him. And God is a just God !!!

Also how do you explain Apostle James when he showed unless they "RETURN" to the Lord will they be saved ???
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#182
#182
Budman said:
We have a savior - not a probation officer.
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We have a Lord and Savior, Jesus is not just a Savior but our Lord to................

When a individual is your Lord as Jesus that means you do as they say, and that obedience is done out of love for Him.

It does not make Him a probation officer, but there is consequences for being disobedient including that of eternal !!!
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#183
#183
AboundingGrace said:
If I may comment.. if that quote is meant to be some positive statement, I don't see it. The way it sounds to me is, "possibilities by adversities abound therefore, you will eventually lose your salvation." But I don't think that you intended that, but rather you intended the eternal security view... that just as God saved you without your effort, he will keep you from losing your salvation without your effort.

But that doesn't take into account all of the verses of scripture that indicate that the person who doesn't maintain his walk with the LORD will drift away from it and be lost like the proverbial lost sheep, or the prodigal son.

If eternal security is so secure, then people departing from faith wouldn't exist, but they do.

Here is an article (no affiliation) on the quote above by John MacArthur.
Cerebral Faith: If You Could Lose Your Salvation, You Would?
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hello! i don't think we've met... i'm ellie :)

i wanted to address the part i underlined. yes, God is the Author of salvation for His people, and it is He Who keeps them.
all the, er, effort, comes from God. (Jonah 2:9; Ps 3:8)
but this can lead folks to think those who believe we actually possess eternal security intend to expend no effort. :rolleyes:

i take the warning passages seriously, as i believe we all should. i just see them differently to you, i guess.
i don't for a moment believe the Lord Jesus shed His blood and died hoping someone would take advantage if it.
i don't think the Father sent His Dear Son wondering if anyone would endure to the end.
He intended to grant that ability to those whom He chose to save. (Jude 1:24)

the article you linked is from a molinist perspective, and i assume you agree with it?
i don't see the Word agreeing with it.
molinism, so far as i am aware, attempts to reconcile God's sovereignty and man's 'free will', but the Bible teaches no free will in regard to soteriology, in my opinion.

did Abraham seek out and choose God? nope :)
did Jacob declare the older would serve the younger? nope :)
the Lord Jesus said 'all the Father gives Me will come to me and the one who comes to me i will never cast out'. (Jn 6:37)

the thing is, i've never known anyone to apostasize, despite severe trials. but if i did, i would have to remember the wheat and the tares grow together, and it's not i who knows which is which.
and, i don't know that person's end. i can't see into the future and know what will happen with that person.
you referenced the lost sheep and prodigal son, but how did each end?

i don't mean to argue with you... i've seen the fruit of that on these boards. :rolleyes:
i only know God is the One with all power, not i.
He is the One with strength, not i.
He is the Faithful One, not i.
He is the One worthy of all glory and dominion and praise, not i.
HE is the One Who keeps His promises, not i.

walk away from Christ?
i don't believe the Bible teaches i placed myself in Christ, nor that i have the power to take myself out.
in Romans 8:39 when it speaks of 'any other created thing', i count myself in that category.

i'm trying to speak to God's enduring faithfulness toward His people; that He has loved us with an everlasting love.
and i believe He has set His love on a peculiar people for His glory.
the Church is the Father's love gift to His Son (Jn 17:6-12) and He never fails in His purposes.
thanks for listening. :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#184
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#184
fredoheaven said:
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

One of the favorite Bible verse in saying salvation can be lost and other similar verses. Here is the bible passage that deals with the nation of Israel and the tribulation. This may be well said that "endurance 'till the end" refers an Israeli individual who just survive the tribulation. This "end" may further shed light of the physical survival. as in verses 3, 6 and 14 is the Gospel of the kingdom is preach not the Gospel of God's Grace and v.15 which is in reference to the Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy which concerns the Israel. Context to quote:


Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mattthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
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Well I'm confused? How can this be your favorite verse when you make an incorrect application of the interpretation? Jesus is not speaking of individuals in this passage. Jesus is speaking prophetically of Israel at the end of the tribulation when they as a nation shall see Him return in great glory and power. Those who live through the tribulation will see Jesus and believe on Him as their Messiah.

The church has no part in the tribulation. The tribulation is for Israel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
T

Timothy552

Guest
#186
#186
I don't think this has been mentioned yet but has a place in this conversation-the parable of the Sower (Mark chapter 4, especially verse 14-20).
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#188
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#188
KennethC said:
You can not excuse one group that reject Christ over another, that just can't be done.........

We can not say its fair nor does it speak justice if one group who rejects Christ gets salvation over another group that rejects Him. And God is a just God !!!

Also how do you explain Apostle James when he showed unless they "RETURN" to the Lord will they be saved ???
Click to expand...
One group has never accepted Christ nor declared him as their Lord - so therefore has NEVER been born again of the Spirit - NOTHING NEW has been created in them - NO salvation. One group has declared Christ as Lord, been born again of the Spirit - is a new creation - which has been given to them upon faith in Christ, is incorruptible and is sealed - SAVED. All I can say is that salvation needs to be looked at in terms of birth . . . .

I looked at Bible Gateway for "return to the Lord" in James so that I could read the context but it didn't pick up that phrase.

I will answer your question when you answer mine - that's what is called conversation.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#189
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
#189
notuptome said:
Well I'm confused? How can this be your favorite verse when you make an incorrect application of the interpretation? Jesus is not speaking of individuals in this passage. Jesus is speaking prophetically of Israel at the end of the tribulation when they as a nation shall see Him return in great glory and power. Those who live through the tribulation will see Jesus and believe on Him as their Messiah.

The church has no part in the tribulation. The tribulation is for Israel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Hi Sir,

This is not my favorite verse but a cultist verse may quote relative to the thread. yea ...:confused:

Thanks
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#190
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
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Australia
#190
If i can choose salvation, (JESUS), i can also choose to reject it.
Are some of you saying that once i choose to accept salvation i can never choose to reject it?
 
T

Timothy552

Guest
#191
#191
TMS said:
If i can choose salvation, (JESUS), i can also choose to reject it.
Are some of you saying that once i choose to accept salvation i can never choose to reject it?
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If you are truly repentant of your sins and ask Jesus into your life, no you cannot say "just kidding." If you did, you were not sincere to begin with. Look at post #186 and read Mark 4. You can certainly accept Jesus into your life and later backslide or walk out of step with Him, but you are still saved.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#192
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
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Australia
#192
Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mar 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mar 4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Yes these verses are saying that ground types are different conditions of our hearts, Are you saying all of these hearts are saved?
I don't see any evidence that all of these hearts are saved.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#193
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#193
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#194
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#194
In this parable of Christ He highlights the fact that continued forgiveness is conditional for the believer. The story is found in Matthew 18:21-35, and revolves around the forgiveness of God. A certain king responded to the pleas of his servant and forgave him a large debt. That servant went out and found a fellow servant who owed him a small amount and showed no mercy, throwing him in prison because he could not pay. When the king heard what had happened, he rescinded his cancellation of the large debt and had his servant thrown to the tormentors till he paid in full.

No one can deny the obvious teaching of this parable. Even though God graciously forgives those who apply for it, that forgiveness is not without conditions for the future. We can lose that forgiveness by being unmerciful to others. This is in harmony with the words of the Lord in Ezekiel 33:13, "When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it." The principle is repeated in verse 18, "When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby."
 
Dan58

Dan58

Senior Member
#195
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
339
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#195
Can a Christian change their mind?
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#196
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#196
According to some, once you accept Christ you lose free will.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#197
#197
RickyZ said:
According to some, once you accept Christ you lose free will.
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No., what happens is you lose the old and get the new. You lose being dead to being made a live. You lose your identity of being a sinner to being a saint.

==================================================================================

The fight of faith is to fight to keep believing who God says we are.,made righteous by faith in Christ and not by our works. Paul said about his own achievements under the law, said that "he counts them all as rubbish that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith."

There are 2 types of righteousness in the Bible; 1) A righteousness that comes from YOUR obedience and from YOU trying to earn your way to attain it. 2) A righteousness that comes from faith in Jesus Christ.

Only one of these has a solid, unshakable foundation. One is built upon you and your ability to keep the law, while the other is built upon the Rock of all ages---Jesus Christ. One CAN ONLY GIVE YOU THE OCCASIONAL CONFIDENCE TO ASK FOR GOD'S FAVOR, DEPENDING ON HOW WELL YOU PERCEIVE YOU HAVE DONE. THE OTHER GIVES YOU CONFIDENCE ALL-THE-TIME TO ACCESS HIS UNMERITED FAVOR, EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE GREATLY UNDESERVING. Taken from book - Unmerited Favor

 
T

Timothy552

Guest
#198
#198
TMS said:
Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mar 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mar 4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Yes these verses are saying that ground types are different conditions of our hearts, Are you saying all of these hearts are saved?
I don't see any evidence that all of these hearts are saved.
Click to expand...
That's the point, they are not...
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#199
#199
TMS said:
If i can choose salvation, (JESUS), i can also choose to reject it.
Are some of you saying that once i choose to accept salvation i can never choose to reject it?
Click to expand...
No, we're saying you never would choose to reject "it". To know Him is to love Him. Just sayin'.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#200
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#200
RickyZ said:
According to some, once you accept Christ you lose free will.
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The free will of man does not override the will of God. God establishes the bounds within which you may exercise your free will.

You did not choose to come into this world. You must choose to receive Christ or to die in your sins.

God because He loves us allow us a great deal of liberty. In the end we are still His creation and must account to Him for what we have done with Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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