Can a christian lose their salvation

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Can a christian lose their salvation?

  • yes

    Votes: 24 39.3%

  • no

    Votes: 37 60.7%
  • Total voters
    61
I don't see the past perfect used that much in the N.T greek..... ..the eph 4:30 was in the aorist indicative which is what you had in your definition of the aorist tense below::

In the indicative mood, the aorist tense can indicate punctiliar action (action that happens at a specific point in time) in the past....so at some point in the past the Holy Spirit sealed us.

I see the perfect tense used alot..which originates in the past and is in a completed state in the present....I love the perfect tense...like "It is finished"....

Tense Name​
Kind of Action​
Time Element (In Indicative Mood)​
Progressive (or 'Continuous')​
present​
Simple (or ‘Summary’) Occurrence​
past​
Completed, with Results​
past, with present results​
Progressive (or 'Continuous')​
past​
Simple Occurrence​
future​
Completed, with Results​
past​
Completed, with Results​
future​
Kind of Action and Time of Action for Each Verb Tense



crossnote said:
I was just giving a corrective to this of yours...

rather it is a simple undefined action in the past. You defined the Perfect past tense.
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​
 
People who have walked away from God who had served Him before and enjoyed a rich relationship with Him are simply going through some rough waters. What does God's word say about that?

Isaiah 43:1-2
“Do not be afraid, for I have ransomed you.
I have called you by name; you are mine.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]When you go through deep waters,
I will be with you.
When you go through rivers of difficulty,
you will not drown.
When you walk through the fire of oppression,
you will not be burned up;
the flames will not consume you.


Their lives aren't over yet. How can any single one of us determine or judge that God has ever abandoned them? No, the truth is that they have simply fallen out of fellowship with their Father. They have not fallen out of relationship with their Father. He is still their Father.

Think on this...please.


.
 
KennethC said:
Falling away, departing from the faith, or not continuing in the faith is not speaking of unbelievers...........

Unbelievers can not depart from or stop continuing in a faith they were never a part of !!!

Those many scriptures are speaking of believers who have fallen away from the faith back to unbelief, as most of Paul's warnings were to believers !!!
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I never said anything was speaking of unbelievers . . . You didn't answer any of my questions . . .
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Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever
When we are born again of the Spirit - we have not rejected Christ because the Spirit is born within us and that Spirit is incorruptible - is that not correct according to scripture? We are sealed until the day of redemption - is that not correct? Does God remove that "birth" each time we mess up because when we mess up we are basically falling away, departing from the faith, and not continuing in the faith - (out of fellowship with the Father and the Son)? How many times do we have to mess up before he will not "reborn" us again? And is it possible to be born again again? And when we mess up are we actually rejecting Christ since we have already believed and been born again?

AN UNBELIEVER HAS NEVER CONFESSED JESUS CHRIST AS LORD . . . . so NO they do not have salvation!

So if a born again Christian messes up and maybe stays in that state for, let's say, 3 years - has he lost his salvation? If he were to die would he go to the White Throne Judgment for judgment and possibly judged to the "second death" the same as an unbeliever or would he go before the bema and be judged by things he has done in his body while on earth either good or bad? Does God pull out that "new creation" - create it again (give birth to it again) - then pull it out - then create again - then pull it out - over and over and over again?
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"AN UNBELIEVER HAS NEVER CONFESSED JESUS CHRIST AS LORD . . . . so NO they do not have salvation!"

This was said in response to the following:
If we are going to go that route then we might as well place all unbelievers as saved as well, because if one set of people that reject Christ can get salvation then all people that reject Him can get salvation.
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This is very encouraging. Since letting Jesus be the One to run my life and learning how to give over the routine things I used to do myself...to Him., faith is doing it's work. If I believe Jesus for the salvation and keeping of my soul.,and I do., I also am learning to believe Him for my daily life in my mind and in my body. Even when healing of body and mind and relationships seems totally impossible, faith is teaching me to keep extending the bar. For sure I see there is a long way to go but faith is the route to take.

Not looking around at others but only looking to Jesus for the needs I have to believe regardless of how I feel or who is talking. People we love and who love us will not be going with us when we deal with pain or confusion. We go there alone in our bodies and minds. Actually we go to places in our minds alone all the time and having people along the way to help with the burden. But some places we can't take people with us and unless we have Jesus and His hand working to help and heal, we are utterly alone it would seem. (but we are never alone)

Yet I'm finding that 'faith' in His presence to be there when I cannot feel Him through the agony is also an extension of the bar. Nothing is new under the sun for God. But for us His mercies are new every morning. The experiencing of His mercies is new for me and so I also know other things will be new for me to see this coming year. "Hope in God"... I can hear that voice speaking in my mind. The verses read over the years come to mind by the Holy Spirit. How amazing is it that He speaks to us this way using His Word by His Holy Spirit??




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[TD="width: 100%"]John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]Imagine looking at Leonardo da Vinci’s famous Mona Lisa painting in the Louvre museum. Would you think of adding more brush strokes to it? Of course not! It was done by a master, so what could you possibly add to the painting to improve it?
In the same way, that is how we are to look at Jesus’ work on the cross. He cried out, “It is finished!” You cannot complete a completed work. You cannot finish a finished work. Our salvation is won. Our sins are all forgiven. We are made forever righteous by His blood. Christ paid completely and perfectly for our total forgiveness, righteousness and every blessing!
In fact, these three words, “It is finished”, come from one Greek wordteleo. In the days of Jesus, a servant would use it when reporting to his master: “I have completed the work assigned to me.” (John 17:4) The word means, “It is finished, it stands finished and it will always be finished!” Perhaps the most significant meaning of teleo is how it is used by merchants: “The debt is paid in full!” When Jesus gave Himself on the cross, He met fully the righteous demands of the law. He paid our debts in full!
Today, it is not our works that will bring us the blessings. It is Christ’s finished work. Christian living is not about doing, but believing in His finished work. Under the law, we must do. Under grace, it is done!
Maybe you are faced with overwhelming odds today. Jesus promises, “It is finished!” You are not going to be delivered because you have already been delivered. You are not going to be healed because you are already the healed! God healed you 2,000 years ago! Isaiah 53:5 declares, “By His stripes you are healed!” You are already pregnant with healing. Keep resting in His finished work and it will manifest!
My friend, the work is finished. The victory is won. Our blessings have been bought by His blood! Live life knowing that there is nothing for you to do—only believe! It is finished![/TD]
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Devotional Destined To Reign
 
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Utah said:
The people you describe are not losing their salvation, they're renouncing it. Big difference.
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Hi Utah., I usually agree with you and also other respected Christians who are well read and good teachers. But on this subject of renouncing the faith, I see even a larger need for Christ's keeping and the Holy Spirit's sealing. As fallible human beings., we make idiotic decisions sometimes in our lives that change the course of our relationships and even our health and mental and emotional stability.

The reason for this is our lack of using the wisdom Christ gave us. We have the wisdom of Christ but we often fail to grow in it. It is still a tiny seed that we didn't water and nurture. It is still there but it has not grown to be a driving force in our human lives. Sometimes we come to that awareness later in life and only begin to grow in wisdom at an older age (humanly speaking) acting like babies when we should be mature and past childish things.

For me, Jesus knows this about us and has also paid for that lack as well. It has to be that way since life on earth is so subject to soooooooo many things and so many challenges to mind and body. How can we trust ourselves to be that wise in each and every situation that comes our way? Why else would usually smart people do such idiotic things?? And I'm talking Christians here.,not the unsaved.

Another reason why in His wisdom and knowledge He sealed us by His Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We learn from our falls and have many bruises and cuts and hurts from the wrong turns we made in life. The more tragic the fall the more clearly I see how much I need Him to keep me from falling down from some other opposition to my faith. Here again., grace teaches.

 
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

One of the favorite Bible verse in saying salvation can be lost and other similar verses. Here is the bible passage that deals with the nation of Israel and the tribulation. This may be well said that "endurance 'till the end" refers an Israeli individual who just survive the tribulation. This "end" may further shed light of the physical survival. as in verses 3, 6 and 14 is the Gospel of the kingdom is preach not the Gospel of God's Grace and v.15 which is in reference to the Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy which concerns the Israel. Context to quote:


Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mattthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 
[h=1]Standing Secure on God’s Promises[/h]
Ever broken a promise, not kept your word, or been late for an engagement? Of course you have. Now you know why many Christians are worried sick that they may fail God. After all, isn’t the Bible full of exhortations to hold fast, continue, and endure to the end? It is – but not so that we might get something we don’t already possess in Christ.

I spent the summer studying some 300 scriptures pertaining to this issue of eternal security. I have to be honest and tell you my motives were mixed. The pure motive was that I simply enjoy studying scripture and I wanted to settle this issue once and for all in my heart. The “impure” motive was that I am fed up with those fear-mongers who try to unsettle the secure, condemn the guiltless, and otherwise spread a message of anxiety that contradicts the Lord’s own message of, “Fear not little flock” (Lk 12:32).

Uncertainty is a faith-killer. If you are uncertain about your eternal position how can you trust God? You won’t. If this issue isn’t settled in your heart you’ll lie awake at night wondering whether you are good enough or have done enough to impress him. And then you’ll set aside grace by taking out a little works insurance just to be safe.

Insecurity about the future is just one example of the prevailing winds of unbelief that assail the church. If you are insecure and in doubt, know that I write so that you might repent (change your doubting and unbelieving mind) and believe the good news. I write so that you might trust Jesus to finish what he started.

But first, you may need to change your glasses…

What you look through determines what you see

This teaching continues on the website below..click the link

Standing Secure on God’s Promises – Escape to Reality
 
It's funny, but the only ones I hear preaching insecurity are the ones who boast they are most secure. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves (seeing as most of "Elvis" has left the building). But by all means, continue with your mutual admiration society meeting...

Informal poll:

OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE ONE CAN RENOUNCE THEIR SALVATION (Do I have to repeat that?), how many of you feel insecure in your salvation?

I sure don't.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Standing Secure on God’s Promises


Ever broken a promise, not kept your word, or been late for an engagement? Of course you have. Now you know why many Christians are worried sick that they may fail God. After all, isn’t the Bible full of exhortations to hold fast, continue, and endure to the end? It is – but not so that we might get something we don’t already possess in Christ.

I spent the summer studying some 300 scriptures pertaining to this issue of eternal security. I have to be honest and tell you my motives were mixed. The pure motive was that I simply enjoy studying scripture and I wanted to settle this issue once and for all in my heart. The “impure” motive was that I am fed up with those fear-mongers who try to unsettle the secure, condemn the guiltless, and otherwise spread a message of anxiety that contradicts the Lord’s own message of, “Fear not little flock” (Lk 12:32).

Uncertainty is a faith-killer. If you are uncertain about your eternal position how can you trust God? You won’t. If this issue isn’t settled in your heart you’ll lie awake at night wondering whether you are good enough or have done enough to impress him. And then you’ll set aside grace by taking out a little works insurance just to be safe.

Insecurity about the future is just one example of the prevailing winds of unbelief that assail the church. If you are insecure and in doubt, know that I write so that you might repent (change your doubting and unbelieving mind) and believe the good news. I write so that you might trust Jesus to finish what he started.

But first, you may need to change your glasses…

What you look through determines what you see

This teaching continues on the website below..click the link

Standing Secure on God’s Promises – Escape to Reality
Click to expand...



This is an excellent site and it would do so many Christians a world of good to read and get acquainted with the wonderful doctrine of eternal security. It has been something we as a family were blessed to have been shown from the start at our local Baptist church and it has served me well to know the doctrine even before I understood how much God loved us. Thanks for posting Grace777!!
 
RickyZ said:
It's funny, but the only ones I hear preaching insecurity are the ones who boast they are most secure. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves (seeing as most of "Elvis" has left the building). But by all means, continue with your mutual admiration society meeting...

Informal poll:

OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE ONE CAN RENOUNCE THEIR SALVATION (Do I have to repeat that?), how many of you feel insecure in your salvation?

I sure don't.
Click to expand...

Hey Ricky., I guess the reason we are so passionate about the truth of eternal security in the Bible and why we encourage other brothers and sisters in Christ to learn about it is because many of us know what it is like to fear going to hell. What Christians end up having is "a fearful expectation of judgement"

And also for me at least the reason I keep hopping on these threads that speak about the security of the believer is many new Christians (and older ones alike) are told they must maintain the 'gift' and that they need to keep it a hold of Jesus or they will lose Him; when in fact it is Jesus who keeps a hold of us and promises NEVER to lose us. And that is such good news we can't help but want to share it :) and spread it around.
 
RickyZ said:
It's funny, but the only ones I hear preaching insecurity are the ones who boast they are most secure. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves (seeing as most of "Elvis" has left the building). But by all means, continue with your mutual admiration society meeting...

Informal poll:

OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE ONE CAN RENOUNCE THEIR SALVATION (Do I have to repeat that?), how many of you feel insecure in your salvation?

I sure don't.
Click to expand...

The fear drives me TO GOD, not away from him. There I find mercy and forgiveness flowing like a fountain of living waters. There I feel very secure.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The fear drives me TO GOD, not away from him. There I find mercy and forgiveness flowing like a fountain of living waters. There I feel very secure.
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Yeah, that's just what every loving parent wants, a child who is afraid of them and who comes to them out of fear....to receive mercy and forgiveness? Right, that's the ticket.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Yeah, that's just what every loving parent wants, a child who is afraid of them and who comes to them out of fear....to receive mercy and forgiveness? Right, that's the ticket.
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When a child does wrong, that's exactly what a parent wants. Your idea of grace appears to be that there are no laws, and therefore no wrongdoing, so need to fear doing wrong.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
When a child does wrong, that's exactly what a parent wants.
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I'm sorry that was your experience, and I pray you aren't passing that on to children if you have any.
Your idea of grace appears to be that there are no laws, and therefore no wrongdoing, so need to fear doing wrong.
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Hey, you're starting to get it.

Romans 4:15 "For the law brings wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation."
 
FreeNChrist said:
I'm sorry that was your experience, and I pray you aren't passing that on to children if you have any.
Hey, you're starting to get it.
Romans 4:15 "For the law brings wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation."
Click to expand...

That's why what you teach is rightfully called lawless grace.
 
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