-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What is faith? In terms of Christ it is keeping His commands, following in His way, becoming righteous.
Language is miss-leading because as soon as someone says I have something, like a house or car, they own it.
If you truly walk with Jesus why would you walk away? Mental illness, depression, catastophic events you cannot cope with?
Now for me what is more useful is to ask are people walking in love and faith? If they are then amen.
At the day of judgement we will see who truly met the Lord, but that is not the point, like a football match.
Too many say a test of have you faith, is do you believe it can be lost. In truth if faith is a thing that can be gained it is also something that can change. But I trust my God that He will stay true to me because He loves me.
Many here of hyper-faith now claim the faith they had before was not real faith but empty faith, worthy of judgement.
So suddenly though they say faith is enough, before they accepted hyper-grace it was not real faith. Odd that. I call that hypocracy of belief.
Language is miss-leading because as soon as someone says I have something, like a house or car, they own it.
If you truly walk with Jesus why would you walk away? Mental illness, depression, catastophic events you cannot cope with?
Now for me what is more useful is to ask are people walking in love and faith? If they are then amen.
At the day of judgement we will see who truly met the Lord, but that is not the point, like a football match.
Too many say a test of have you faith, is do you believe it can be lost. In truth if faith is a thing that can be gained it is also something that can change. But I trust my God that He will stay true to me because He loves me.
Many here of hyper-faith now claim the faith they had before was not real faith but empty faith, worthy of judgement.
So suddenly though they say faith is enough, before they accepted hyper-grace it was not real faith. Odd that. I call that hypocracy of belief.
It's not works-based. It's just recognizing the clear witness of scripture that a faith that doesn't produce good fruit is dead.
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentence! Matthew 3:8
Already now the ax is positioned at the root of the trees; therefore every tree not producing good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 3:10
Already now the ax is positioned at the root of the trees; therefore every tree not producing good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 3:10
Do you believe Jesus's words or are they too hard for you?
"Be perfect." "If you look on a woman with lust you commit adultery with her in your heart."
"Ask and it will be given to you." "Love your enemy." "Love your neighbour"
Now these are big burdens unless they are explained and understood.
The cross and death of Jesus, a sacrifice to show you are accepted and loved. Until you know this to the depths of your being the rest is just a pipe dream of another life.
Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God.
Can we be like God the Father? No. But can we love our enemies like the Father does? Yes.
So is Jesus asking us to do the possible or impossible and undefined? Ofcourse the possible.
God will not appear to you face to face. Why not? Because you have the bible, Jesus, the apostles and the prophets. If you will not listen to them you will not listen to Him. The truth is right before you, you have been given life so live it.
You have been commanded to be righteous so be righteous. When you fail, repent, confess and accept the forgiveness the Lord gives you. How many times will this happen? Probably all your life, it is the walk that matters not the stumbling. But you need to know what stumbling is and why, and address all the issues. It is what eternity is built upon.
"Be perfect." "If you look on a woman with lust you commit adultery with her in your heart."
"Ask and it will be given to you." "Love your enemy." "Love your neighbour"
Now these are big burdens unless they are explained and understood.
The cross and death of Jesus, a sacrifice to show you are accepted and loved. Until you know this to the depths of your being the rest is just a pipe dream of another life.
Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God.
Can we be like God the Father? No. But can we love our enemies like the Father does? Yes.
So is Jesus asking us to do the possible or impossible and undefined? Ofcourse the possible.
God will not appear to you face to face. Why not? Because you have the bible, Jesus, the apostles and the prophets. If you will not listen to them you will not listen to Him. The truth is right before you, you have been given life so live it.
You have been commanded to be righteous so be righteous. When you fail, repent, confess and accept the forgiveness the Lord gives you. How many times will this happen? Probably all your life, it is the walk that matters not the stumbling. But you need to know what stumbling is and why, and address all the issues. It is what eternity is built upon.
Do you think a monk is a monk earning their salvation, or someone exploring the limits of the flesh and desire verses purity and holiness? I am not a aesthetic but I understand the intent.
As a Christian Jesus and the cross are salvation, but walking it out is the challenge. If you think this is works salvation you have not really begun to walk or discover who you are.
I have seen people say this, I will follow the Lord as long as He does not take my son. I understand the emotional feelings, but in truly following Jesus as Lord, this is not trust or submission, but a token faith bargain, which can be withdrawn.
Often we are similarly in this kind of trap but do not recognise it. Job went through great trials to show where His heart really was.
In this lazy uncommited world of self indulgence, when people cry righteousness is works salvation, they are lying. It is self indulgent sin they cannot cope with, and what Jesus really stands for.
As a Christian Jesus and the cross are salvation, but walking it out is the challenge. If you think this is works salvation you have not really begun to walk or discover who you are.
I have seen people say this, I will follow the Lord as long as He does not take my son. I understand the emotional feelings, but in truly following Jesus as Lord, this is not trust or submission, but a token faith bargain, which can be withdrawn.
Often we are similarly in this kind of trap but do not recognise it. Job went through great trials to show where His heart really was.
In this lazy uncommited world of self indulgence, when people cry righteousness is works salvation, they are lying. It is self indulgent sin they cannot cope with, and what Jesus really stands for.
When you look at those scriptures in context it is obvious John is telling the Pharisees to "show fruits of their repentance" by being baptized saying they sin and need a Savior..as they were trusting in their own righteousness and righteous deeds...this is the works-based salvation way of living.
If we preach the grace of Christ to people..that grace will "teach" them to live godly in this present world.
This has to do with people coming to Christ as they need a Savior..it's interesting that right after this..Jesus comes to be baptized to identify with sinners.
Matthew 3:7-12 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matthew 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
If we preach the grace of Christ to people..that grace will "teach" them to live godly in this present world.
This has to do with people coming to Christ as they need a Savior..it's interesting that right after this..Jesus comes to be baptized to identify with sinners.
Matthew 3:7-12 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matthew 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
Wrong. Even atheists can do good works. My point is, there is nothing to prove as far as a Christian's salvation is concerned. We have the very righteousness of Christ imputed to us. Which means, we are as sinless, holy, and righteous as Jesus is. Since our righteousness is based on/through Jesus, we have as much chance of losing it as He does - which is no chance at all.
Very religious language. Let us put actions into context.
A good work is a righteous act. It is done by anyone, no matter their spiritual state.
The act does not make someone righteous, like an unclean object make a clean object dirty, so a righteous act cannot be counted as making the doer righteous because they are a sinner.
So when you mix justification with righteous acts things get lost.
Without the fruit of good works, the change in people is dead. Now if you cannot understand this language without flipping over into self justification, you are brain washed and not listening to language and concepts.
A good work is done by anybody and is a good work. Helping an old person safely across a road for instance.
A live heart sees needs and responds, a dead one only things that will benefit them.
Righteousness in behaviour matters and is the true test of spiritual authority. But people only know failure and feel condemnation so would rather ignore the light and hide in darkness because their deeds are evil.
A good work is a righteous act. It is done by anyone, no matter their spiritual state.
The act does not make someone righteous, like an unclean object make a clean object dirty, so a righteous act cannot be counted as making the doer righteous because they are a sinner.
So when you mix justification with righteous acts things get lost.
Without the fruit of good works, the change in people is dead. Now if you cannot understand this language without flipping over into self justification, you are brain washed and not listening to language and concepts.
A good work is done by anybody and is a good work. Helping an old person safely across a road for instance.
A live heart sees needs and responds, a dead one only things that will benefit them.
Righteousness in behaviour matters and is the true test of spiritual authority. But people only know failure and feel condemnation so would rather ignore the light and hide in darkness because their deeds are evil.
Yes. Abraham and Issac.
I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
Gen 22:15-17
because you have done this - doing proves the reality of faith.
Everyone has passing convictions, they convince themselves they will do something, but somehow it never happens.
The proof of change is in the change in behaviour. The proof of good teaching is in the fruit.
The proof of good seed for a gardener is plants that grow up and produce their own seed.
If you hold God does not need proof, then he would have rewarded Abraham without asking him to sacrifice Isaac.
Until you confess your faith to someone else it is just in your head. This is why praise is so important, it is declaring the spiritual reality in your soul. The question I would ask is the exact opposite, if there is no external change there is no internal change either. You have to balance this with time, as a seed grows a lot before the leaves finally break through but it is still true.
I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
Gen 22:15-17
because you have done this - doing proves the reality of faith.
Everyone has passing convictions, they convince themselves they will do something, but somehow it never happens.
The proof of change is in the change in behaviour. The proof of good teaching is in the fruit.
The proof of good seed for a gardener is plants that grow up and produce their own seed.
If you hold God does not need proof, then he would have rewarded Abraham without asking him to sacrifice Isaac.
Until you confess your faith to someone else it is just in your head. This is why praise is so important, it is declaring the spiritual reality in your soul. The question I would ask is the exact opposite, if there is no external change there is no internal change either. You have to balance this with time, as a seed grows a lot before the leaves finally break through but it is still true.
Last edited: