Can a Gay person be a True Christian?
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Being Gay is only a temptation in which all us Christians deal with temptations. We are told to resist temptation and if we fall well we must repent and make a true effort to be better. Off topic but we see in [h=1]Acts 15:28-29Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT="][FONT="]28 For it was the Holy Spirit’s decision—and ours—to put no greater burden on you than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from food offered to idols, from blood, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. You will do well if you keep yourselves from these things.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Farewell.
The apostles and the elders assembled to consider the matter of how the Gentiles should be upheld to the Jewish law. And above this was the outcome. Obviously, the first gentile churches were filled with previous idol worshipers and people who practiced perverted sexual acts against Gods original design. The church made this decision to help gentiles begin their road to salvation right where they are. We must as they say love the sinner hate the sin.
Another thing we must take into our thinking. Has the theory pertaining to chemical imbalances been proven? We are different people than we were 2000 years ago. We have been subject to all sorts of chemicals, hormones, drugs, interracial marriages which created different gene pools. Does this give the possibility to create someone being born gay? I don't know. But even if this is proven the bible still would not change. Indicating someone born gay can either take a vow to live single and keep from having sex or deny God and live as they are hardwired to live. Compared to someone choosing to be gay is only a temptation. If it is hardwired then to them it's just as natural to be attracted the same sex just as it is to be attracted to the opposite sex as a normal person is. I do not know if this has been scientifically proven but if so we must understand the person to begin the best route to salvation. [/FONT]
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[FONT="]Farewell.
The apostles and the elders assembled to consider the matter of how the Gentiles should be upheld to the Jewish law. And above this was the outcome. Obviously, the first gentile churches were filled with previous idol worshipers and people who practiced perverted sexual acts against Gods original design. The church made this decision to help gentiles begin their road to salvation right where they are. We must as they say love the sinner hate the sin.
Another thing we must take into our thinking. Has the theory pertaining to chemical imbalances been proven? We are different people than we were 2000 years ago. We have been subject to all sorts of chemicals, hormones, drugs, interracial marriages which created different gene pools. Does this give the possibility to create someone being born gay? I don't know. But even if this is proven the bible still would not change. Indicating someone born gay can either take a vow to live single and keep from having sex or deny God and live as they are hardwired to live. Compared to someone choosing to be gay is only a temptation. If it is hardwired then to them it's just as natural to be attracted the same sex just as it is to be attracted to the opposite sex as a normal person is. I do not know if this has been scientifically proven but if so we must understand the person to begin the best route to salvation. [/FONT]
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I'm back. I'm making a list and checking it twice.
As i see it i have several issues to deal with.
First issue that needs to be addressed is walking closer with Jesus. For some reason i never felt Jesus ever accepted me.
Second issue is being Gay. I truly believe no one can change their sexual orientation. So i need to work this one out.
Third issue is my breakup with my Lover of 20+ years. I believe its this part which is causing most of my depression.
Last is of course is why was i molested. But this one can wait a long time.
This is what i have come up with in the last couple of hours. If anyone see's anything that needs to be added or taken out just speak up. This is not etched in stone.
As i see it i have several issues to deal with.
First issue that needs to be addressed is walking closer with Jesus. For some reason i never felt Jesus ever accepted me.
Second issue is being Gay. I truly believe no one can change their sexual orientation. So i need to work this one out.
Third issue is my breakup with my Lover of 20+ years. I believe its this part which is causing most of my depression.
Last is of course is why was i molested. But this one can wait a long time.
This is what i have come up with in the last couple of hours. If anyone see's anything that needs to be added or taken out just speak up. This is not etched in stone.
Yes and NO!
Yes a Gay person can be a True follower of Jesus Christ, BUT a True Follower of Jesus Christ cannot practice Homosexuality! Chose either or but not both. If you chose both you cannot be a Disciple of Jesus. Does this mean you have to change overnight? No. God will work with you to help you change.
Yes a Gay person can be a True follower of Jesus Christ, BUT a True Follower of Jesus Christ cannot practice Homosexuality! Chose either or but not both. If you chose both you cannot be a Disciple of Jesus. Does this mean you have to change overnight? No. God will work with you to help you change.
Again, the healing is in God's Word, no one can help you more and that's how He does it. Get plugged into a solid Bible believing church, don't miss a service.
The Truth will set you free. That's where you'll find His acceptance of you and the cleansing power of His Word and in unity with His people in prayer and worship. You need fellowship with God's people and Him.
Word, worship, prayer and breaking of bread. Communion is very important. Jesus commanded us to remember Him this way. The table of the Lord is where we remember what He did for us and that sacrifice for our sins is the ONLY reason we will go to heaven.
If you decide to get counseling make sure they are expressly christian. Christian first, then counselor. Not just a shrink with a cross or fish on their sign. Secular counselors will load you up with meds for your depression, which solves nothing. Start with a Pastor. A good pastor is all you really need to get started. That's what they get paid for. Be courageous, get the help you need immediately.
The Truth will set you free. That's where you'll find His acceptance of you and the cleansing power of His Word and in unity with His people in prayer and worship. You need fellowship with God's people and Him.
Word, worship, prayer and breaking of bread. Communion is very important. Jesus commanded us to remember Him this way. The table of the Lord is where we remember what He did for us and that sacrifice for our sins is the ONLY reason we will go to heaven.
If you decide to get counseling make sure they are expressly christian. Christian first, then counselor. Not just a shrink with a cross or fish on their sign. Secular counselors will load you up with meds for your depression, which solves nothing. Start with a Pastor. A good pastor is all you really need to get started. That's what they get paid for. Be courageous, get the help you need immediately.
G
Ken, the first issue is ................are you saved? It doesn't matter what we think or what we demand of you. Are you saved? Do you trust that the Lord Jesus Christ paid for your sins and died for you?
If you question this or are not SURE in your mind...............none of us can help you. No amount of sweet words, tough love , nice love,and the best advice possible will help if you are questioning your salvation.
Get your salvation figured out. Then you can heal.
Paul never told the jailer to repent of his sins,confess with your mouth,have Godly sorrow,be dunked in a tank, ask Jesus into your heart,make Jesus Lord of your life, follow all of his commands...............He simply said BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
If you question this or are not SURE in your mind...............none of us can help you. No amount of sweet words, tough love , nice love,and the best advice possible will help if you are questioning your salvation.
Get your salvation figured out. Then you can heal.
Paul never told the jailer to repent of his sins,confess with your mouth,have Godly sorrow,be dunked in a tank, ask Jesus into your heart,make Jesus Lord of your life, follow all of his commands...............He simply said BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
While serving jury duty I heard many people outright confess to crimes, hoping for leniency. That's often granted to some degree, but when the same people are back in court confessing the same stuff, should the court keep being lenient? I say no along with the majority. What we like to see is a criminal yield his self will to solutions the community can provide, be that secular counselling, or submitting to one of the several religious ministries, typically as a resident for months.
How could God be holy while being lenient over someone continually admitting a continued sin? He is the same God Moses knew. He doesn't change. Confessing is a great first step towards repentance because that demonstrates accountability.
A powerful reason a lot of church folks resist the idea of bringing perverts into a congregation is they are parents, grandparents, or neighbors in general who've now witnessed too many awful sights among lesbians and homosexuals. I sat with my family with a gay couple nobody knew was gay, that sat way too close together, one twirling the hair of the other. It offended the whole section of people behind them. They were displaying their "love" for all to see. Heterosexual couples rarely if ever put their sexuality on display for many to see. The ushers asked the men not to return until the Lord should correct their public behavior.
A church congregation is not intended to be a melting pot of sinners, but a means for worshipers to come together to worship, edify, and be edified in the word of God. From there believers go out to preach Christ to the lost and dying world, leading some to Christ, then bringing the new believers along o worship and grow spiritually. No sensible congregation should have to tolerate sensual display. If they do, the best thing to do is depart there and don't return.
How could God be holy while being lenient over someone continually admitting a continued sin? He is the same God Moses knew. He doesn't change. Confessing is a great first step towards repentance because that demonstrates accountability.
A powerful reason a lot of church folks resist the idea of bringing perverts into a congregation is they are parents, grandparents, or neighbors in general who've now witnessed too many awful sights among lesbians and homosexuals. I sat with my family with a gay couple nobody knew was gay, that sat way too close together, one twirling the hair of the other. It offended the whole section of people behind them. They were displaying their "love" for all to see. Heterosexual couples rarely if ever put their sexuality on display for many to see. The ushers asked the men not to return until the Lord should correct their public behavior.
A church congregation is not intended to be a melting pot of sinners, but a means for worshipers to come together to worship, edify, and be edified in the word of God. From there believers go out to preach Christ to the lost and dying world, leading some to Christ, then bringing the new believers along o worship and grow spiritually. No sensible congregation should have to tolerate sensual display. If they do, the best thing to do is depart there and don't return.
"Can a person who is Gay and has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior be a True Christian????"..... Someone who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior would not be gay, it just contradicts itself. Even if their desires fool them into believing they have no control over them, homosexuality is an outward expression of Atheism. My 2 cents.
The Bible puts that sin as lust of the flesh, which is put away by deliberate decision with consecration toward holy behavior as expected of all disciples of Christ.
Thinking about sexual acts is not even a sin until acted upon. That line in the sand is like looking at someone lustfully by a married person is adultery of the luster. We all see, but have in Christ Jesus the power not to look upon it. Indeed it can take years to finally cast down wicked thinking. Let's all strive to welcome righteousness-thinking instead of stinking-thinking.
Thinking about sexual acts is not even a sin until acted upon. That line in the sand is like looking at someone lustfully by a married person is adultery of the luster. We all see, but have in Christ Jesus the power not to look upon it. Indeed it can take years to finally cast down wicked thinking. Let's all strive to welcome righteousness-thinking instead of stinking-thinking.
B
Just read what I wrote and stop making guesses at things I am not saying eg "I'm not familiar with a solid teaching in the Bible that agrees with your apparent premise that Jesus tolerates any deliberate/habitual sin lifestyle."
This sort of stuff gets my goat. I pray everyone would stop trying to make words written say something else. Where did I say that Jesus puts up and lives in peace with an "habitual lifestyle"?
I have met Jesus through the Spirit and I know who Jesus is. I know what Jesus can do. I do not limit His power either on or off this earth. Your avatar has a flaming sword. Jesus has one in His mouth, a sharp double edged sword. His words are life and death. Jesus does not need me to point out sin, He can see it, I know from experience that the Holy Spirit will not hang around where sin is, and this is the price Jesus talks of in His parables about the pearl etc.
To Hold the Spirit of God, To have God and Jesus come and dine with you daily, to talk as Father and son to talk brother to brother with God and Jesus, leaves no room for sin of an habitual nature. There is a point I have to say NO! My flesh rebels against God continually, and I fall and graze my knees (spiritually speaking), and I get up and go to father and my big brother and ask for help and I get clean because God cleans me through the blood of Jesus, every time. The blood of Jesus never fails! hallelujah!
Do you think living this way that anyone could remain in sin for long? Do you think living so close a relationship with God and Jesus would allow homosexuality to prevail? All I did was answer the op. If they had put the question differently and said 'can a practising homosexual who says they are a Christian actually be one' I would have answered differently, but not so much differently, because having a relationship with Jesus, a pure relationship with Jesus, one that takes all your strength, all your will, and all your might to maintain. allows the Holy Spirit to do what He dose and lead us to repentance and to change to what Jesus wants from us.
I do not have to stand with plackards condemming sin, or shouting down sexual sin or telling people they are going to hell. I have to love and show love and lead those who want to know what Jesus is all about to Him. I am then prepaired to teach those who want it how to go forward. And every answer to every question is Jesus. Jesus first, Jesus last, Jesus in the middle or anywhere one wishes to stop and look. All for Jesus, everything for Jesus, for me and you and everyone else. If we do not have this life giving access to a relationship with Jesus we are stuffed. We are dead.
We are told what to look for from those who say they know Jesus, these things are the fruits of the spirit, and these things can be plainly seen in a persons words and actions, even what and how they write on here at CC.
How do you think we walk in the light, through our own actions or through Jesus leading us in relationship? if I do things myself is that not doing to earn salvation? This is not how one gets to live for eternity with God. I follow, I hear His voice and try and do what I am told, in humility. Everything comes down to relationship, everything comes down to Jesus. He gives the power for all of us to pick up our cross daily and run our race.
Jesus is coming back to judge this world, He does not need me to do it, His shoulders are big enough to shoulder any burden He may find when He comes back. He will look all of us in the eye and ask "Did you listen to what I said? Did you do what I asked you?
Have you listened? Jesus is love and that is the most important command He has given, "Love the lord your God with all your heart and strength, and your neighbour as yourself". "Love one another as I have loved you". "Go into the world and teach all men to follow my commands", LOVE. "Love your enemies", "do good to those who persecute/misuse you, pray for them (not at them) bless them, love them", be different from the world.
This sort of stuff gets my goat. I pray everyone would stop trying to make words written say something else. Where did I say that Jesus puts up and lives in peace with an "habitual lifestyle"?
I have met Jesus through the Spirit and I know who Jesus is. I know what Jesus can do. I do not limit His power either on or off this earth. Your avatar has a flaming sword. Jesus has one in His mouth, a sharp double edged sword. His words are life and death. Jesus does not need me to point out sin, He can see it, I know from experience that the Holy Spirit will not hang around where sin is, and this is the price Jesus talks of in His parables about the pearl etc.
To Hold the Spirit of God, To have God and Jesus come and dine with you daily, to talk as Father and son to talk brother to brother with God and Jesus, leaves no room for sin of an habitual nature. There is a point I have to say NO! My flesh rebels against God continually, and I fall and graze my knees (spiritually speaking), and I get up and go to father and my big brother and ask for help and I get clean because God cleans me through the blood of Jesus, every time. The blood of Jesus never fails! hallelujah!
Do you think living this way that anyone could remain in sin for long? Do you think living so close a relationship with God and Jesus would allow homosexuality to prevail? All I did was answer the op. If they had put the question differently and said 'can a practising homosexual who says they are a Christian actually be one' I would have answered differently, but not so much differently, because having a relationship with Jesus, a pure relationship with Jesus, one that takes all your strength, all your will, and all your might to maintain. allows the Holy Spirit to do what He dose and lead us to repentance and to change to what Jesus wants from us.
I do not have to stand with plackards condemming sin, or shouting down sexual sin or telling people they are going to hell. I have to love and show love and lead those who want to know what Jesus is all about to Him. I am then prepaired to teach those who want it how to go forward. And every answer to every question is Jesus. Jesus first, Jesus last, Jesus in the middle or anywhere one wishes to stop and look. All for Jesus, everything for Jesus, for me and you and everyone else. If we do not have this life giving access to a relationship with Jesus we are stuffed. We are dead.
We are told what to look for from those who say they know Jesus, these things are the fruits of the spirit, and these things can be plainly seen in a persons words and actions, even what and how they write on here at CC.
How do you think we walk in the light, through our own actions or through Jesus leading us in relationship? if I do things myself is that not doing to earn salvation? This is not how one gets to live for eternity with God. I follow, I hear His voice and try and do what I am told, in humility. Everything comes down to relationship, everything comes down to Jesus. He gives the power for all of us to pick up our cross daily and run our race.
Jesus is coming back to judge this world, He does not need me to do it, His shoulders are big enough to shoulder any burden He may find when He comes back. He will look all of us in the eye and ask "Did you listen to what I said? Did you do what I asked you?
Have you listened? Jesus is love and that is the most important command He has given, "Love the lord your God with all your heart and strength, and your neighbour as yourself". "Love one another as I have loved you". "Go into the world and teach all men to follow my commands", LOVE. "Love your enemies", "do good to those who persecute/misuse you, pray for them (not at them) bless them, love them", be different from the world.
Ken, I really don't know what else to say that I haven't already said on here, or in PM with you. BUT since I ALWAYS have something to say, (lol) I will say this:
It is very brave of you to come on here and admit all this on a public forum. I think the break up with your lover is NOT what is causing your depression right now. I think the fact that you're gay and feel that God has never accepted you, is the REAL cause of your depression. You know you did the right thing breaking up with your lover and moving far away from him. You know you did the right thing by confessing to yourself, us and God, that you're gay.
I agree with your list.
The absolute first thing is to start walking closer to God. I've told you via PM how to do that. Jesus DOES accept you, and he accepted your sin when he died on the cross. Jesus accepted every sin in the world unto himself on the cross. I should explain this better before I get jumped on by the others.. lol.. What I mean by him accepting sin, is that while on the cross, he felt the pain of being molested, he felt the fear of not being accepted, he felt all the emotions that go with any other sin, such as the betrayal of adultery and divorce, pain of losing a murdered child, etc...
All the emotions that WE feel in our trials and tribulations, is what Jesus felt on the cross. Many times I hear "no one really understands". But they forget that Jesus does understand. He HAS felt all the emotions, all the fall-out from any given situation.
Now for another thing on your list. As to WHY you were molested. All these years later, does it really matter why? All that matters is that it was NOT YOUR FAULT. Whoever did it is sick and twisted and just wanted a sense of control. And obviously it still weighs heavily on you, so in essence that person still has control over you. Break that control!! Stop trying to recall what happened. Leave the past in the past, and move onto what's going on now. Your biggest concern right now is getting closer to God.
As far as people changing their sexual orientation, it can be done. With alot of effort, it can be done, IF you are willing to resist the temptation that goes with being gay. Ask God to help you overcome that temptation. He will take it away entirely if you only ASK him to.
It is very brave of you to come on here and admit all this on a public forum. I think the break up with your lover is NOT what is causing your depression right now. I think the fact that you're gay and feel that God has never accepted you, is the REAL cause of your depression. You know you did the right thing breaking up with your lover and moving far away from him. You know you did the right thing by confessing to yourself, us and God, that you're gay.
I agree with your list.
The absolute first thing is to start walking closer to God. I've told you via PM how to do that. Jesus DOES accept you, and he accepted your sin when he died on the cross. Jesus accepted every sin in the world unto himself on the cross. I should explain this better before I get jumped on by the others.. lol.. What I mean by him accepting sin, is that while on the cross, he felt the pain of being molested, he felt the fear of not being accepted, he felt all the emotions that go with any other sin, such as the betrayal of adultery and divorce, pain of losing a murdered child, etc...All the emotions that WE feel in our trials and tribulations, is what Jesus felt on the cross. Many times I hear "no one really understands". But they forget that Jesus does understand. He HAS felt all the emotions, all the fall-out from any given situation.
Now for another thing on your list. As to WHY you were molested. All these years later, does it really matter why? All that matters is that it was NOT YOUR FAULT. Whoever did it is sick and twisted and just wanted a sense of control. And obviously it still weighs heavily on you, so in essence that person still has control over you. Break that control!! Stop trying to recall what happened. Leave the past in the past, and move onto what's going on now. Your biggest concern right now is getting closer to God.
As far as people changing their sexual orientation, it can be done. With alot of effort, it can be done, IF you are willing to resist the temptation that goes with being gay. Ask God to help you overcome that temptation. He will take it away entirely if you only ASK him to.
I'm glad to see vibrant stump preaching. I was disagreeing with a statement you made a day ago saying all we have to do is trust Jesus, and he will sort out our problems. We start with trusting him, but we must obey to cast bad thinking down. It's no different than wanting Jesus to heal me of a disease, but he prefers us to act on faith. "Your faith has made you whole" is his manner. It means I have a major part in receiving help from God. He offers help through his word which I must eat and live by.
I daily take up his sword of the spirit. It can divide bone & marrow, so is powerful and sometimes tough.
I daily take up his sword of the spirit. It can divide bone & marrow, so is powerful and sometimes tough.