Can a person be born without a soul?

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calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
#41
Yes. They are called psychopaths. People born without a conscience, to put it in broad terms.
YOU are the smartest person in the room so far. Antisocial personality disorder; "Their is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years..." DSMIV TR, 2000, 2006 pg 291 I'm surprised I had to rephrase the question so much. It showed me how divided we are as Christians over the definition of soul; "noun, "the part of you that is not your body, and that some people think does not die with your body. the spirit of a person." A Student's Dictionary 20th edition 2012. It is not considered a disability or mental illness because who have do the horrible things that they do willfully without shame guilt or repentance. I asked because the American Psychiatric Assn. Does not validate a diagnosis such as this younger than age 15. I call them crazy, broken or soulless creatures. but what I was curious about were some of them born that way or are they/were they all victims at some point, of abuse, neglect etc. If they were born that are they beyond salvation, from birth? Are they even human (and I don't need a biology lesson either, I know what a human is according to text books everyone.)

It was explained to me once that humans like god are triune beings body, spirit, and soul so if they have no soul (in the common definition) are they some how less than human? (as in the triune definition)

I'm sorry if I ruffled any feathers it was my mistake for thinking everyone would understand what I meant but I have forgotten that have different meanings to different meanings to different people. good morning everyone....calibob
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,264
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#43
Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness(people that think they have a good standing with God but do not).
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up(highly arrogant).
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives(aggressive towards each other), to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men(highly selfish, the last generation).

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound(selfishness, arrogance), the love of many shall wax cold(the end time).

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves(care mainly about themselves), covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof(will not allow the Spirit to lead them because they love fleshy pleasures more than God): from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth(many people that claim Christ do not come to the truth that they have to abstain from sin by the Spirit).

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil(for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law): which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Everybody has to be born with a soul, for all people will be judged, and the soul will live on forever whether the person is a saint or not.

I think the bigger problem is people view the world as terrible in selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation, and it is worse at the end time than in the past, and technology is the culprit for that, so some people say, people basically care about themselves with little regard for anybody else, so you do not care about me, I do not care about you.

And some let it bother them so much that they develop a personality disorder because of it, especially if they have been badly neglected.

Everybody complains about the world, but some people lose forgiveness a lot, and love a lot, until they are cold towards other people, for they view people as not caring about them, not giving a rat's butt about them, and do not care if they live or die, so they think that way about them that they do not care about them.

Look at how people talk about how people act today compared to years ago, and people do not get along like they used to get along, but some people can keep it in check, but some let it eat at them, and bother them, until it affects them in a terrible way.

That is probably why they do not get diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder until 15 because it takes all those years to build up in them of hatred towards people because they cannot stand the way the world operates, and that people do not care about each other.

As for crazy leaders what have they seen through history but wars, fighting, people pushing for power, so they might have the attitude so that is how you want to play, let's rock, we got to get them before they get us.

The world is based on selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation, and they get worse as time goes on for that is the direction they are going, so it will bother some people to where they do not care about other people for they do not think people care about each other.

I think that is the bigger problem of why people do not care about other people that is terrible, because they let how the world operates bother to them to a high degree until they develop a personality disorder, rather than they are crazy from not having a soul.

That is why people lash out at each other today so much because people do not think people care about each other, but only care about themselves, so some people are going to develop a personality disorder because of it, until they are hateful towards the world, which they basically said screw the world, and threw their life away, with the bothersomeness of it.

But practically all people think the way they think, but will not throw their life away, and will not let it eat at them, and bother them to where it affects their mental health, and life.

People who think normally will still think people are selfish, arrogant, self exalting, and basically care about themselves, but they think there is still some decency about them, and not all of them are that bad, and will not let it bother them, and still want to be a decent person with forgiveness, and love, for they want to have a good conscience, and a good standing with God.

And some let it eat away at them, and bother them, and were probably neglected badly, to where they have great hatred towards people, and develop a personality disorder where they do not care about other people.

And then you have the people in between that have varying degrees of hate towards people, but not enough love to be on God's side, and not enough hate to have anti-social personality disorder.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
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#44
How would we live without ar souls?

;)
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
2,962
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#45
It seems two days ago there was a controversial topics forum and I think that's where this topic should belong, nonetheless here goes.

Since creation, people have ghastly, gruesome, things without reason or remorse. Could it be be that they simply don't have a soul?
What do you think? I sure don't know It's now an open question....... calibob
Flesh + Spirit = Soul

Any living human being on this planet is a soul, because they have flesh (which returns to dust) and a spirit (That returns to God). The combination of flesh and that spirit = SOUL.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
258
83
#46
No. Without soul the body is dead.
Flesh + Spirit = Soul

Any living human being on this planet is a soul, because they have flesh (which returns to dust) and a spirit (That returns to God). The combination of flesh and that spirit = SOUL.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
Also any living animal.
 

calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
171
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lawton ok
#47
How would we live without ar souls?

;)
that depends upon ones definition of soul dosn't it. I was taught that spirit is the part of god that dwells within us and the soul is the spirituaL part of us that makes us indivual and should belong to God like our minds and bodies BUT only if we give them to him. That's why Jesus saves our souls. our mind is the part that makes the decision. Our bodies are just the vehicles that carry around our minds, souls and the holy spirit if we have recieived it.
However in the British form of our confusing language it merely means lives i.e. The mighty ship went down and a 1000 souls were lost.
When I started this string thought most everyone accepted the first paragraph now days and have never heard the word used in conversation in my life (64 years) as the second paragraph uses it. I did not want this to turn this into a linguistcs string. I am regretful that I posted it without more thought.
sorry for the confusion.
statement; I trust that when I die that my soul will be with Jesus.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
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#49
Are we not three in one, created in gods image with a mind, spirit and soul confined within the body of an animal? Weak, sickly, decaying and wretched?
We are not "with" a soul. We are souls.
 

calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
171
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lawton ok
#50
then when we die and become worm food what happens to our soul?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
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#51
then when we die and become worm food what happens to our soul?
What happens to us?

We are given some temporal spiritual bodies and go to Christ where we are waiting for the resurrection in the end of the age.

Unbelievers are probably in unconciousness, "sleeping" in hádés until their resurrection. Or maybe they are already tortured in gehenna like in the story of Lazarus and rich man. To be tortured, they need to have some kind of body, too.
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
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#52
A person cannot be born without the capability to love, remorse, or compassion...
That is not true. That's what a Conscience bestows in a person. There are people who have been proven, through brain mapping we know where the Conscience center is in the human brain, to not have that area of their brain activated. It doesn't fire. the synapses that activate the Conscience to behave as that which produces in the individual love, remorse, compassion, an innate understanding of right from wrong, is not there.

Serial killers on death row participated in the studies in some cases where this type of brain mapping experiment was being done. Without fail each participant, serial killer, was without Conscience. That area of the brain was dark. Atrophied, meaning shrunken, not active. These are also what is commonly labeled, "Psychopath".
https://www.google.com/search?q=ser...rome..69i57.7335j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Etymology of Psychopath - https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=psychopath&source=ds_search
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
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28
#53
then when we die and become worm food what happens to our soul?
It returns to the God who bestowed it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

James 2:26 Tells us the body without the spirit is dead.
Spirit-πνεῦμα (pneuma)
Strong: G4151
GK: G4460
wind, air in motion, Jn. 3:8; breath, 2 Thess. 2:8; the substance spirit, Jn. 3:6; a spirit, spiritual being, Jn. 4:24; Acts 23:8, 9; Heb. 1:14; a bodiless spirit, specter, Lk. 24:37; a foul spirit, δαιμόνιον, Mt. 8:16; Lk. 10:20; spirit, as a vital principle, Jn. 6:63; 1 Cor. 15:45; the human spirit, the soul, Mt. 26:41; 27:50; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 7:34; Jas. 2:26; the spirit as the seat of thought and feeling, the mind, Mk. 8:12; Acts 19:21; spirit, mental frame, 1 Cor. 4:21; 1 Pet. 3:4; a characteristic spirit, an influential principle, Lk. 9:55; 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; a pervading influence, Rom. 11:8; spirit, frame of mind, as distinguished from outward circumstances and action, Mt. 5:3; spirit as distinguished from outward show and form. Jn. 4:23; spirit, a divinely bestowed spiritual frame, characteristic of true believers, Rom. 8:4; Jude 19; spirit, latent spiritual import, spiritual significance, as distinguished from the mere letter, Rom. 2:29; 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6, 17; spirit, as a term for a process superior to a merely natural or carnal course of things, by the operation of the Divine Spirit, Rom. 8:4; Gal. 4:29; a spiritual dispensation, or a sealing energy of the Holy Spirit, Heb. 9:14; the Holy Spirit, Mt. 3:16; 12:31; Jn. 1:32, 33; a gift of the Holy Spirit, Jn. 7:39; Acts 19:2; 1 Cor. 14:12; an operation or influence of the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor. 12:3; a spiritual influence, an inspiration, Mt. 22:43; Lk. 2:27; Eph. 1:17; a professedly divine communication, or, a professed possessor of a spiritual communication, 1 Cor. 12:10; 2 Thess. 2:2; 1 Jn. 4:1, 2, 3
 

calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
171
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lawton ok
#54
What happens to us?

We are given some temporal spiritual bodies and go to Christ where we are waiting for the resurrection in the end of the age.

Unbelievers are probably in unconciousness, "sleeping" in hádés until their resurrection. Or maybe they are already tortured in gehenna like in the story of Lazarus and rich man. To be tortured, they need to have some kind of body, too.
Is that like abraham's bussom or purgatory?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
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#55
Is that like abraham's bussom or purgatory?
I know you want "yes or no" answer, but this area (after-life) is something we can rather guess than to know certainly.

Some Bible verses seem to indicate that unbelievers are like in a dream, some verses seem to indicate they are concious and in some kind of pain. Maybe its both true.

But we can be certain about the destiny of believers, because Paul said clearly that after death he will be with the Lord. So, when we die, we will meet Lord, somehow, somewhere.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
538
24
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#56
It seems two days ago there was a controversial topics forum and I think that's where this topic should belong, nonetheless here goes.

Since creation, people have ghastly, gruesome, things without reason or remorse. Could it be be that they simply don't have a soul?
What do you think? I sure don't know It's now an open question....... calibob
c....,
Everyone has a soul.
The soul can be ..."corrupted".....and the heart hardened by many things. The Bible says.....pray that the Holy Spirit never leaves you because it will never return. I would interpret that to say that the heart can become so hardened that all moral values are rejected. Possession by a demon could be involved.

What caused this question to be raised?
 

calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
171
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lawton ok
#57
I really trying to sound silly or scarstic, after reading what I wrote I realized that I did so let me explain my dilema..I was raised in the Roman church and changed from a believer to a hopeful skeptic or doubting Thomas if you will then got saved and joined the I found it movement, went to work for a church/theater that supported Trinity Broadcasting, got married and joined Assemblies of God. My wife divorced me and was asked to leave because divorce=adultery at that local worhi center. I also audited (no tuition, no credit) a semester of new testament studies and Hebrews in seminary.

The devil is a trickster I know but there can only be one answer that is correct I am puzzuled, So why is you're answer more correct than the rest? This is not a joke. I'd really like to know, or just skip the topic and admit I may just have to wait and find out when I die.
 

calibob

Active member
May 29, 2018
171
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lawton ok
#58
c....,
Everyone has a soul.
The soul can be ..."corrupted".....and the heart hardened by many things. The Bible says.....pray that the Holy Spirit never leaves you because it will never return. I would interpret that to say that the heart can become so hardened that all moral values are rejected. Possession by a demon could be involved.

What caused this question to be raised?
Actually mental health and are there any real human monsters born beyond redemption. Un-salvageable from the womb.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
258
83
#59
I really trying to sound silly or scarstic, after reading what I wrote I realized that I did so let me explain my dilema..I was raised in the Roman church and changed from a believer to a hopeful skeptic or doubting Thomas if you will then got saved and joined the I found it movement, went to work for a church/theater that supported Trinity Broadcasting, got married and joined Assemblies of God. My wife divorced me and was asked to leave because divorce=adultery at that local worhi center. I also audited (no tuition, no credit) a semester of new testament studies and Hebrews in seminary.

The devil is a trickster I know but there can only be one answer that is correct I am puzzuled, So why is you're answer more correct than the rest? This is not a joke. I'd really like to know, or just skip the topic and admit I may just have to wait and find out when I die.
You apparently had a bad luck about churches. Divorce is not adultery, sex with another woman than your wife is adultery. But its another topic.

Of course, there is one truth about the afterlife and details about it. But we have several possibilities and we cannot verify which one is correct or if its some mixture of multiple options.

But it does not matter so much. We know we will be with the Lord. The question "what is the status of unbelievers until they are resurrected and punished" actually does not influence destiny of believers.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,264
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#60
That is not true. That's what a Conscience bestows in a person. There are people who have been proven, through brain mapping we know where the Conscience center is in the human brain, to not have that area of their brain activated. It doesn't fire. the synapses that activate the Conscience to behave as that which produces in the individual love, remorse, compassion, an innate understanding of right from wrong, is not there.
I am looking at it from the viewpoint of the Bible, which is why I believe that a person is not born without a conscience.

Which also if they were born without a conscience they would of been a lot deadlier than being diagnosed without having a conscience later on, for they would of been out of control with terrible actions where they would of never made it to adulthood to be diagnosed not having a conscience, and would of been institutionalized as a wee child.

Unless like an illness their conscience got worse for in that part of the brain if it deteriorated more as time went on, like some people that say the person was so sweet at one time and we never would expect something like that from them, but then why were they so sweet at one time if they did not have a conscience that was operational at one time.

1.All people will be judged by God for their actions on earth whether good or bad, and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and if they were born without a conscience then they would have an excuse for their sins and these people are not born like a vegetable where they are incoherent and non responding, but they are functioning and getting around.

2.We are not blamed for Adam and Eve's sin, and their sin does not come upon us for everybody will bear their own sins, but when they ate off the forbidden tree they then had a choice between good and evil, so that choice came upon all their offspring, which Eve is the mother of all living, so we are born not knowing God, so we will do wrong before we come to God in the truth.

So we are born innocent with no sin on our record until we know the wrong we do is wrong, which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones.

So there are some that never know they do wrong not having a conscience, but they did good while they were a child and knew it was good.

If they never knew they did wrong, and did not care, they would of never made it to adulthood to be free, for they would of bit the head off the cat, and stabbed the dog, and had no understanding of anything good, and would of had the demeanor of a crocodile, for that is the demeanor of someone that does not have a conscience, and how did they make it to adulthood being free without being put away as a child.

They would of been so unruly and would not be tame at all for they would only want to do bad, and why did they do good when they were a child, at least at one time.

If their conscience had a problem later in life I do not believe that they were born without a conscience, and some act that way because of trauma, and being neglected bad.

To me it does not seem like someone could be born without a conscience, but that would happen later in life, and some people are more evil than other people.

But I could be wrong, but was thinking it could not happen, because we are born innocent, and all people will be judged, so they would have an excuse for their sins, but maybe their brain did not develop right, or that part of the brain is missing.

What I can say is thank God I have a conscience and wish everybody did.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement, and people who interpret the Bible according to the occult, spiritual evolution through nature, and people can still evolve to be greater, and are waiting for the New Age Christ which they believe he will cause them to evolve through nature, and be greater, and be spiritual, and live forever.

The new age movement will develop in to a unified religious system where evolution is standard religion in the world, and will lead the people that do not love God to follow the beast kingdom, and will go against all people that oppose them and want them off the earth with great cruelty, and then God will end this sin business on earth.

It says some shall depart from the faith, and give heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

It says having their conscience seared with a hot iron, for they will not show the love of Christ, for they believe in order to have a world of peace they must get rid of all people who oppose them which is a very cruel and not humanistic thing to do.

These people will make Adolph Hitler, and any other political, or military leader that was cruel look like a toddler when they go against everybody that opposes their kingdom in the future.

But these people were not born without a conscience, but their conscience was seared with a hot iron by the choice they made to follow a false belief system that is cruel in the long run, although it says peace now, for they were in the faith and the love of Christ, at least somewhat, but fell victim to following the Bible according to the interpretation of the new age movement, and Lucifer is the helper of this world, and not against the world as the Bible says, but they say it is a wrong interpretation, for he did not fall in to disgrace and sin, but he descended to Earth from Venus eons ago to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, and will come in the future to help mankind to evolve to be spiritual, which the New Age Christ will be the final teacher in the evolutionary process.

So people can be born with a conscience but by bad choices can develop a strange personality to where they can be cruel to people, and some people are more evil than others, but all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Also if a person does have a cruel tendency the devil can influence them more making it worse, but that does not mean they were born without a conscience.

The Bible says that Jesus lights every person that comes in this world, so everybody has the ability to see the light of Jesus and be saved, but if some people are born without a conscience then how can this be possible, for that would mean that not all people can see the light of Jesus.

But I could be wrong, but I am basing it upon the Bible why I do not believe people can be born without a conscience.

It does not make sense to me how someone can be born without a conscience, although some can be more evil than others, and have a fascination with evil at an early age and it gets worse through time.

Even Hitler as cruel as he was still cared for the welfare of his own people, and people that went along with his agenda.