Can anyone help me understand these verses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#81
I find it curious how a Bible verse which is clear about a specific issue is such a touchy subject for you. It sounds to me there is a concern about your own salvation. It is not scary to me nor am I concerned yet you are? HMMMM????
None of what you put disproves Hebrews nor St. Peter and I do not disagree with any scripture only your false interpretation. And as I said Hebrews a cautionary teaching that I heed but am not afraid of because I abide and heed the warning. Sounds like there may be some abandonment issues here, which totes explains the aversion here to it. Sounds like you are in some trouble.

I love how the Word convicts and calls out. At least you know where you stand concerning your salvation. GOD is good, His judgements are right, and His doctrine SOUND!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,125
201
63
#82
“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭ESV‬
This simply means it is impossible for the saved believers to fall away. Now even in the case of having heard, known or perhaps believe like the devil is in no way are able to crucify Christ once again. Salvation is done not a sort do by religionist system.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
#83
“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭ESV‬
This person no longer believes in a Love relationship with God, by Jesus giving us the Holy Spirit. "Without Love I am nothing." Nothing can't be saved, that is the meaning of a hypocrite a hypocrite does not believe, like Pharisees under the law but not followers of Jesus by the Grace of God. If you still believe that Jesus is God, you have not rejected the Holy Spirit who leads us in the truth. Also all of the disciples fell away on account of Jesus on the night of His betrayal, they has not yet received the Holy Spirit and did not have the power to be a witness during the hour and power of darkness, and it was impossible for them to remain standing without being joined to the Holy Spirit.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,066
824
113
#84
The therefore as the introduction of Chapter 6 is in respect to Melchisedec as to how that name is used in parables that hide the spiritual understanding from natural man . Chapter 7 again reverts back to that principle (Melchisedec).

I think understanding it is the key to understanding the better things that accompany salvation (Hebrew 6:9) the actual redemption of one soul, which is not a kick start placing one in the garden before mankind fell away. or another chance .

The first 2 verses of Chapter 6 sets the stage for the summary verse 4 .

For it is impossible for those who do not leave the principles as those who do not go on to perfection of completion. Which is believing God as a work he perform in us to both will and do His good pleasure . They that do lay again and again the foundation, crucify Christ over and over as if one demonstration in respect to Melchisedec was not enough.

The veil is rent indicating Christ has come in the flesh as the Son of man . God is not a man that he would again come in the flesh again and again.

Our faith that we have towards God is not of our own self .Natural man is reconcked as having no faith. Not little as a spark but none.

Christ our faithful Creator as always must do the first works. And if he has he who began the good work in us He promises He will finish it to the end ,the perfection spoken of in verse 1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Hebrew 6:1-2
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,025
394
83
#85
pure supposition and very unscriptural
That goes against what Jesus said.

John 10:27 to 30 AMPC
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#86
I find it curious how a Bible verse which is clear about a specific issue is such a touchy subject for you. It sounds to me there is a concern about your own salvation. It is not scary to me nor am I concerned yet you are? HMMMM????
None of what you put disproves Hebrews nor St. Peter and I do not disagree with any scripture only your false interpretation. And as I said Hebrews a cautionary teaching that I heed but am not afraid of because I abide and heed the warning. Sounds like there may be some abandonment issues here, which totes explains the aversion here to it. Sounds like you are in some trouble.

I love how the Word convicts and calls out. At least you know where you stand concerning your salvation. GOD is good, His judgements are right, and His doctrine SOUND!
Again with understanding of the authors particular form of written expression which is still escaping you ......

The context shows it is not teaching directly on the security of the believer but yet affirms it. The writer is addressing believers who haven’t gone on to maturity as they should have.

Note particularly chapter 5:12-14. Thus, when he comes to chapter 6, he says, “Don’t keep trying to lay the foundations, over and over again” (verses 1-2). In that context he says, “If it were necessary to again build the foundations, you couldn’t, it is impossible” (verses 4-6).
Verses 4-6 are not in isolation. The point of the passage is not whether you can lose your salvation, the point of the passage is that readers who are saved (6:7-9, especially verse 9 shows he is writing to saved people) need to move forward in faith and maturity.

It sounds to me there is a concern about your own salvation.
I am more than secure in my foundation who is Christ Jesus, my concern is for others, the new believers and those who do not yet have a firm foundation and making sure you false doctrine is exposed.

If there is one thing, I am thankful for when I come to CC is that I had a sound biblical teacher who right from the start brought all the scriptures together that clearly teach we are secure in Christ and are declared justified in Him and we are imputed with His righteousness and are positionally sanctified.

I wonder who your teacher is:unsure:
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#87
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt.

Many are called but FEW are chosen. I think the lack of understanding for some concerning the Hebrews language , is the preconceived notion that man knows the total will of God and the end for sure of his own life story. Predestined and Elected? Does that mean you know for sure or only God knows for sure? Judas thought for sure he was saved, he did not know what lot he would end up in.

Judas approached the Lord , (as do many) he asked the Lord if he may follow. He was elected to be an apostle, for the scripture clearly say he was an elected apostle. Did not God know this, was he not then predestined, at least for something?
Romans 9:
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
My point, no on knows FOR SURE his or her end, even if you are called and elected, does not mean you will for sure fulfill your election and see it to its end. For sure many are called and few are chosen, called and elected does not mean chosen by God.
Many believe they are doing the Lords will.

A Tree and its Fruit Matthew 7:21-23

…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’…

These people here in which the Lord addresses too believe they are saved and have done the will of the Father. Christ is saying not so.
It is arrogance to defy the Word and to ascribe to it that which is illogical. You can reject your restoration. Now, what does RESTORATION mean? It means you have been restored to the fullness God intended for you. Prior to Judas rejecting Christ and selling his soul=selling out Christ. He received spiritual gifts, healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead. All the apostles did.
he tasted the heavenly gifts, he was enlightened, he shared in the Holy Spirit. The problem is he sold out for fame and fortune. Let's think about it. He was a scholar, he came from a reputable family(I'll share the recorded history of Judas Iscariot another time). He thought he could force the hand of God. he went to the Sanhedrin to get them to receive Christ , he thought (he) was going to get Christ to take His place over Israel there as though Christ was his to direct. because he thought (he) knew better, he betrayed Christ.
He did not think Christ would be beaten and crucified, the weight of his sin was too great to bear and he killed himself.

So, unless you exhibit the spiritual gifts , you have not been restored. You are in a process of restoration maybe, but not fully restored.
Now the FULL CONTEXT OF HEBREWS 6:
Hebrews 6
The Peril of Falling Away
6 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrines of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 with instruction[a] about ablutions:
(Ablution, in Christianity, is a prescribed washing of part or all of the body of possessions, such as clothing or ceremonial objects, with the intent of purification or dedication. In Christianity, both baptism and footwashing are forms of ablution)

CONTINUING HEBREWS: , the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do( if God permits).[b] 4 For it is impossible[c] to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. 7 For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.


9 Though we speak thus, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

The Certainty of God’s Promise
13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.” 15 And thus Abraham,[d] having patiently endured, obtained the promise. 16 Men indeed swear by a greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. 17 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he interposed with an oath, 18 so that through two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible that God should prove false, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the hope set before us. 19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz′edek.

If you have not been fully restored, or at least restored to the extent in which Judas was, in exhibiting spiritual gifts, healing , prophecy, casting out demons, raising the dead, you have not rejected your Restoration. But for sure , you will never be fully restored by clinging to some of the half baked notions of some, who have responded to this OP. False doctrine of lying teachers will definitely keep you from your fullness in Christ.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#88
Again with understanding of the authors particular form of written expression which is still escaping you ......

The context shows it is not teaching directly on the security of the believer but yet affirms it. The writer is addressing believers who haven’t gone on to maturity as they should have.

Note particularly chapter 5:12-14. Thus, when he comes to chapter 6, he says, “Don’t keep trying to lay the foundations, over and over again” (verses 1-2). In that context he says, “If it were necessary to again build the foundations, you couldn’t, it is impossible” (verses 4-6).
Verses 4-6 are not in isolation. The point of the passage is not whether you can lose your salvation, the point of the passage is that readers who are saved (6:7-9, especially verse 9 shows he is writing to saved people) need to move forward in faith and maturity.



I am more than secure in my foundation who is Christ Jesus, my concern is for others, the new believers and those who do not yet have a firm foundation and making sure you false doctrine is exposed.

If there is one thing, I am thankful for when I come to CC is that I had a sound biblical teacher who right from the start brought all the scriptures together that clearly teach we are secure in Christ and are declared justified in Him and we are imputed with His righteousness and are positionally sanctified.

I wonder who your teacher is:unsure:
Unlike you my teacher is Christ. But it is also clear your ELA teacher too has failed you.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#90
WOW, JUST WOW!!!!!! Get out of the teaching business. If you can not understand English even though you speak it and do not know what ELA is, no wonder you follow someones half baked interpretation of Hebrews6. On that note , no wonder.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#91
WOW, JUST WOW!!!!!! Get out of the teaching business. If you can not understand English even though you speak it and do not know what ELA is, no wonder you follow someones half baked interpretation of Hebrews6. On that note , no wonder.
So you have no answer then?
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#92
WOW, JUST WOW!!!!!! Get out of the teaching business. If you can not understand English even though you speak it and do not know what ELA is, no wonder you follow someones half baked interpretation of Hebrews6. On that note , no wonder.
Who said I am a teacher? This is a discussion board.
 
Apr 1, 2018
69
14
8
#93
In My Opinion....
I believe that what it is saying is: Those who are truly saved and have felt Gods goodness in their hearts, would not likely turn around and go back to sin. If they did, giving them another chance at repentance, would be like crucifying Christ all over again. Like going from Adam before the fall, to Adam after the fall all over again. Like when he was crucified: there had to be a do over, because someone came into his Glory and then fell out of it and had to get a do over. God forbid, Indeed.
Agree
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#94
Judas thought for sure he was saved, he did not know what lot he would end up in.
Pure speculation

Prior to Judas rejecting Christ and selling his soul=selling out Christ. He received spiritual gifts, healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead. All the apostles did.
he tasted the heavenly gifts, he was enlightened, he shared in the Holy Spirit. The problem is he sold out for fame and fortune.
More speculation

My point, no on knows FOR SURE his or her end, even if you are called and elected, does not mean you will for sure fulfill your election and see it to its end.
Jesus teaches otherwise through Paul.

Paul used the aorist tense in regard to salvation. For example, in Acts 16:31, regarding the question of the jailer: "sirs, what must I do to be saved?", Paul said, "believe (aorist) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Paul did not use the present tense to indicate on-going belief.

Paul also used the aorist tense in Rom 10:9 - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe (aorist) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Clear enough: believing in a point in time results in salvation.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#96
Judas thought for sure he was saved, he did not know what lot he would end up in.
Pure speculation:

NO speculation, that is why he became an apostle. The very fact that he did is answer he thought to follow Christ meant salvation.

FirstLovedByHim said:


Prior to Judas rejecting Christ and selling his soul=selling out Christ. He received spiritual gifts, healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead. All the apostles did.
he tasted the heavenly gifts, he was enlightened, he shared in the Holy Spirit. The problem is he sold out for fame and fortune.


Under said:More speculation

SCRIPTURE SAYS:
Matthew 10:8
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without pay, give without pay.
This they were told to do before the Last supper. Not more speculation MORE TRUTH which you reject. Seems as though your very salvation is in question, not just your full restoration.

UNDER SAID:
Jesus teaches otherwise through Paul.

Paul used the aorist tense in regard to salvation. For example, in Acts 16:31, regarding the question of the jailer: "sirs, what must I do to be saved?", Paul said, "believe (aorist) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Paul did not use the present tense to indicate on-going belief.

Paul also used the aorist tense in Rom 10:9 - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe (aorist) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Clear enough: believing in a point in time results in salvation.
None of this as to do with the FULL RESTORATION that Hebrews addresses . You do not exhibit any spiritual gifts as accompanies Restoration. When you are a baby you don not walk you crawl. Restoration is a process, that only Christ can do, and you are fighting against any chance at it through false doctrine . To deny Hebrews and the true meaning is to deny any chance at receiving any spiritual gift.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#97
Well if you are talking about English Language Acquisition I find that quite humorous actually. :D
WOW ! ELA= English Language Arts, the ability to master the English language. What's humorous is your lack of basic knowledge. You are definitely sheltered and exhibit cult like mannerisms . Though you obviously have a computer, you are rather ignorant to fundamentals. There is no more to say here the Apostles have spoken, the Holy Spirit and Truth you reject. Continue to follow false prophets if would like. You defy commonsense and right reason.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#98
Judas thought for sure he was saved, he did not know what lot he would end up in.

None of this as to do with the FULL RESTORATION that Hebrews addresses . You do not exhibit any spiritual gifts as accompanies Restoration. When you are a baby you don not walk you crawl. Restoration is a process, that only Christ can do, and you are fighting against any chance at it through false doctrine . To deny Hebrews and the true meaning is to deny any chance at receiving any spiritual gift.
It seems to me you have a script that you are following and I am quite sure you did not teach yourself this supposed doctrine aka ....script.
It is quite concerning. :(
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
#99
WOW ! ELA= English Language Arts, the ability to master the English language. What's humorous is your lack of basic knowledge. You are definitely sheltered and exhibit cult like mannerisms . Though you obviously have a computer, you are rather ignorant to fundamentals. There is no more to say here the Apostles have spoken, the Holy Spirit and Truth you reject. Continue to follow false prophets if would like. You defy commonsense and right reason.
Yup ....anything else while you are at it.... your personal tone is rather intriguing,....... typically those who write this way have a very narrow script they follow and have difficulty tolerating anything outside their bias and faulty beliefs.

I will pray for you.

You can know you are saved today!
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,265
4,667
113
WOW ! ELA= English Language Arts, the ability to master the English language. What's humorous is your lack of basic knowledge. You are definitely sheltered and exhibit cult like mannerisms . Though you obviously have a computer, you are rather ignorant to fundamentals. There is no more to say here the Apostles have spoken, the Holy Spirit and Truth you reject. Continue to follow false prophets if would like. You defy commonsense and right reason.

This is so funny, reading it again, I really like the sheltered part.

Thank you for the laugh before I go tend to my garden:D