Can Christ disobey the command given by the LORD?
- Thread starter kleronomos
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thank you for the response. Like you, I believe the 'jobs' we were given from the very start will continue on to the very end of the age. The end rewards and promises are realized in the Lords Day and not before EVERYONES work is completed.
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called
Tribulation is not God's wrath.
1 Thess & 2 Thess & 1 John and the Prophets Noah, Daniel and Job put to death the lie of pre-trib rapture as does Revelation.
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
1 Thess & 2 Thess & 1 John and the Prophets Noah, Daniel and Job put to death the lie of pre-trib rapture as does Revelation.
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
-
1
- Show all
In my opinion, Jesus can disobey the Father, but He won't. My reasoning is that there is only one God but the Nature of God is Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When Jesus came to earth he came to do the Father's will but he was not forced to. When Jesus was tempted in the desert by Satan, he was both God and Man. Being a man, Jesus could have willfully sinned and gave into the temptation of Satan, thereby disobeying the Father's will. Of course, Jesus freely chose not to sin.
When it came time for Jesus to undergo His passion and crucifixion, He could have said no to the Father. In Jesus' agony in the garden of Gethsemane, it is clear that the Father's Will and Jesus' Will are not the same. In fact, Jesus begs the Father to take this cup from Him, but immediately submits His will to the Father's and adds, "Thy will be done and not mine."
The things I have mentioned above show that Jesus has His own free will, separate from the Father's. So, Jesus does have a choice to obey or disobey the Father. Of course, Jesus came to earth for the only reason of doing the Father's will, and He did. As both the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in heaven now, there aren't any more differences in the wills. So, I suspect that Jesus will always act in accordance with the Father's will and that the Father will act in accordance with Jesus' will. After all, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one and equal according to Trinitarian theology/doctrine.
-
1
- Show all
First, off the context of Pslams 110:1 is not saying Jesus can't move from a place. Jesus made His enemies His footstool at the Resurrection For HE rose as King of kings and Lord of lords. Jesus came to Peter in Acts, Jesus came to Paul in Acts. Jesus is not limited other than in context to HIS Body.
When Jesus said it is finished Jesus rose from the dead and was seen 40 days on the earth. Then He was taken up into Heaven In addition, if we read the Word of God Jesu was standing at the death of Stephen, Oops I guess he was to remain sitting?
This idea of Jesus having to be forced to sit on a throne is ridiculous. Jesus is in perfect line with the will of the Father. The rapture is appearing of Christ in the air the return is Christ coming to the earth at the mount. of Olives.
When Jesus said it is finished Jesus rose from the dead and was seen 40 days on the earth. Then He was taken up into Heaven In addition, if we read the Word of God Jesu was standing at the death of Stephen, Oops I guess he was to remain sitting?
This idea of Jesus having to be forced to sit on a throne is ridiculous. Jesus is in perfect line with the will of the Father. The rapture is appearing of Christ in the air the return is Christ coming to the earth at the mount. of Olives.
-
2
- Show all
T
I wonder what in the human mind entertains such ideas? Not that I’m trying to belittle your question but Theologically speaking there would be zero reason for Jesus to rebel against Father God. He would essentially be rebelling against himself which would actually destroy the triune God who was there since the beginning. My understanding is that the trinity was there even in the beginning (Genesis) here are some scriptures to chew on and really search your soul with. To me a rebellion in the trinity would be its own destruction which we know would never happen as we already know the end of the story in revelation and the restoration of all things. With all due respect.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.”
John 1:1-18 NIV
“Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.”
John 14:9-11 NIV
the other one I think of is
““My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
John 17:20-23 NIV
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.”
John 1:1-18 NIV
“Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.”
John 14:9-11 NIV
the other one I think of is
““My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
John 17:20-23 NIV
-
1
- Show all
Was Jesus lying?
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
There is nothing in depth about "sit until". The only reason why you need "in depths" is because it doesn't fit with your beliefs, so you have to come up with some "in depth" interpretation, other than what is written: "sit until".
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
There is nothing in depth about "sit until". The only reason why you need "in depths" is because it doesn't fit with your beliefs, so you have to come up with some "in depth" interpretation, other than what is written: "sit until".
-
1
- Show all
Yes, there is an in-depth interpretation for those who want the truth (but not for those who have an agenda).
You should quote the complete verse to see what it means in the context of the present and future ministry of Christ. So what we read in Psalm 110:1 (KJB) is this: The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
This verse is quoted in Hebrews 1:13 in order to contrast the Son of God with all the holy angels: But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Only Christ has the right to sit at the right hand of the Father (with full divine authority signified by the right hand) because He has finished the work of redemption by Himself: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high ... But this Man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. (Heb 1:3; 10:12,13)
In Psalm 110:1 these are the words of David: "The LORD (YHWH)" in this verse is God the Father and "my Lord" is the Lord Jesus Christ. So this is the Father addressing the Son and telling Him to wait until a particular time when both the Father and the Son will crush the enemies of God and Christ (metaphorically under Christ's feet). A sovereign would place His feet on a footstool, but here the enemies become the "footstool" of Christ -- utterly crushed by His divine power.
Does this mean that Christ does nothing between His ascension to the right hand of the Father and the battle of Armageddon (when He destroys His enemies)? Does this means that Christ sits idly on His throne? Absolutely not. Here are the things that the Lord Jesus Christ is doing (or will do) before His Second Coming "with power and great glory:
1. Christ is doing the work of our Great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary: But Christ being come an High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us... And having an High Priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 9:11,12; 10:21,22)
2. Christ is doing the work of our divine Mediator in Heaven: And for this cause he is the Mediator of the New Testament [Covenant], that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance... For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Heb 9:15, 24)
3. Christ will come momentarily at the Resurrection/Rapture in order to perfect the saints and give them glorious immortal bodies: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord... Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Thess 4:16,17; 1 Cor 15:51,52)
4. Christ will then judge the works of the saints -- at the Judgment Seat of Christ -- and dispense rewards to those who deserve them: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God... For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (Rom 14:10,12; 2 Cor 5:10)
5. Christ will then be married to His Bride who will become the Lamb's Wife: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. (Rev 19:6-9)
It is only AFTER all of this that Christ will make His enemies His footstool: And I saw the beast [the Antichrist], and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Rev 19:19-21)
You should quote the complete verse to see what it means in the context of the present and future ministry of Christ. So what we read in Psalm 110:1 (KJB) is this: The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
This verse is quoted in Hebrews 1:13 in order to contrast the Son of God with all the holy angels: But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Only Christ has the right to sit at the right hand of the Father (with full divine authority signified by the right hand) because He has finished the work of redemption by Himself: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high ... But this Man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. (Heb 1:3; 10:12,13)
In Psalm 110:1 these are the words of David: "The LORD (YHWH)" in this verse is God the Father and "my Lord" is the Lord Jesus Christ. So this is the Father addressing the Son and telling Him to wait until a particular time when both the Father and the Son will crush the enemies of God and Christ (metaphorically under Christ's feet). A sovereign would place His feet on a footstool, but here the enemies become the "footstool" of Christ -- utterly crushed by His divine power.
Does this mean that Christ does nothing between His ascension to the right hand of the Father and the battle of Armageddon (when He destroys His enemies)? Does this means that Christ sits idly on His throne? Absolutely not. Here are the things that the Lord Jesus Christ is doing (or will do) before His Second Coming "with power and great glory:
1. Christ is doing the work of our Great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary: But Christ being come an High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us... And having an High Priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 9:11,12; 10:21,22)
2. Christ is doing the work of our divine Mediator in Heaven: And for this cause he is the Mediator of the New Testament [Covenant], that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance... For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Heb 9:15, 24)
3. Christ will come momentarily at the Resurrection/Rapture in order to perfect the saints and give them glorious immortal bodies: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord... Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Thess 4:16,17; 1 Cor 15:51,52)
4. Christ will then judge the works of the saints -- at the Judgment Seat of Christ -- and dispense rewards to those who deserve them: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God... For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (Rom 14:10,12; 2 Cor 5:10)
5. Christ will then be married to His Bride who will become the Lamb's Wife: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. (Rev 19:6-9)
It is only AFTER all of this that Christ will make His enemies His footstool: And I saw the beast [the Antichrist], and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Rev 19:19-21)