Can God be tempted? How well do we truly know Jesus Christ?

Rondonmon · Jan 2, 2022

Its against His nature, in other words God could chose to do evil, but no one can tempt Him. The whole "God can not lie" is stated because God's nature will not allow it, but He of course could lie. He in fact sends string delusions to the evil, but that actual delusion is from Satan the Liar, God just allows it.

Thus one would be a fool to even try and tempt God, but He will not allow it any way, but He allowed the temptation of Hos son fir a specific reason. But, just like God's nature is perfect, so is Jesus' nature, thus it was just as futile for Satan tp try and temp him, in other words God nor Jesus can 'REALLY" be tempted. because their hearts not only understand the difference between right and wrong, THEY ARE in essence, perfectly just in all their beg thus they can not do wrong/evil.

So the point is, in essence, Gid's nature would never allow Him to do the opposite pf what Hid nature is.

Noah761 · Jan 4, 2022

Dino246 said:

This sort of discussion I find is good as Scripture states: "Iron sharpens iron, and one person sharpens the wits of another." (Prov 27:17, NRSV) I believe this is especially true among the brethren in Christ who seek God's truth.

It is true that once meaning of words are so close, and each individual perceives them with differing shades of meaning, other statements in Scripture are left as our stepping stones to truth. Let me rephrase your words "if He could not fail the test, then it was not a genuine test" to the following:

"If Jesus Christ could not fail the test, it would be the proof he is indeed God" based on the Merriam-Webster's definition of a test "2.b. an ordeal or oath required as proof of conformity with a set of beliefs".

In thinking and reviewing this question, my emphasis has shifted a bit more toward the fact that Jesus Christ is one man, one person though both God and man in this one person. That does mean he has no sin nature, no Original Sin, but something came to mind. Adam sinned, yet Adam had no sin nature. He was pronounced "good" by God, so he was not merely neutral, he was positively holy. Satan tempted man; but what about Satan himself, was he not called good at creation so how do I account for his fall? We usually say "pride" and so where did the sin of pride come from. The best answer I've been able to find is, only God is infallible, all creatures are fallible. So, I am left with the fact that Jesus is also God the Son so could not have sinned. To me the thought of God sinning is abhorrent.

"No one, when tempted, should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one." (Jas 1:13, NRSV)

Jesus is One Person, though he is man and God as recorded for us:

"But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man’s trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many." (Rom 5:15, NRSV)

"If, because of the one man’s trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." (Rom 5:17, NRSV)

"yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1Cor 8:6, NRSV)

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Eph 4:5, NRSV)

If Jesus had failed the test, or could have sinned, showing himself fallible; what happens to my confidence in the following promises:

"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.” (John 10:28-30, NRSV)

"and for this reason I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know the one in whom I have put my trust, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that day what I have entrusted to him." (2Tim 1:12, NRSV)

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day.” (John 6:39-40, NRSV)

"Now to him who is able to keep you from falling, and to make you stand without blemish in the presence of his glory with rejoicing," (Jude 1:24, NRSV)

I will continue to believe solidly in the impeccability of Jesus Christ. Dino, I'd given my understanding as best I can and this discourse has helped me refine my understanding; so I'll leave the last word to you, as we have discussed this.

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Dino246 said:

Which would make the third meaning of the original word the correct one,

"proven"

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

Healed lepers..
Cast demons out of dumb & mute people..
Raised Himself from the dead..

=]

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

That is what He set aside. Not His deity. The train of His robe, which filled the temple.

Noah761 · Jan 4, 2022

There is great worth to the Three Ecumenical Creeds of the church. The early creeds came about to systematize and put in a clear statement of truth based on the Scriptures, in order to defend the faith against heretics. They are indeed man-made creeds, but based on biblical truths and the Three Creeds, "Apostles", "Nicene" and "Athanasian" are ecumenical because they have been accepted by the vast majority of the branches of Christianity in the west. Even independent church groups what generally reject creeds as man-made, if they are truly Christian will believe the truths they contain based on Scripture. I have taken the articles from the Athanasian Creed and printed out the Scripture proofs for each article as it pertains to a portion of Christology which fits into this thread topic. It may take two replies so it may need to be in two replies.

"But it is also necessary for everlasting salvation that one faithfully believe the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.(27)"

"Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel", which means, “God is with us.” (Matt 1:23, NRSV)

And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14, NRSV)

Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:18, NRSV)

This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day.” (John 6:40, NRSV)

Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you; (Acts 13:38, NRSV)

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, (Gal 4:4, NRSV)

who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross. (Phil 2:6-8, NRSV) **God the Son did not empty Himself of his attributes, but his glory!

For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself a ransom for all —this was attested at the right time. (1Tim 2:5-6, NRSV)

Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great: He was revealed in flesh, vindicated in spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory. (1Tim 3:16, NRSV)

"Therefore, it is the right faith that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is at the same time both God and man.(28)"

“Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.” (Matt 1:23, NRSV)

And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matt 3:17, NRSV)

“Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven. (Matt 10:32-33, NRSV)

While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud a voice said, “This is my Son, the Beloved; with him I am well pleased; listen to him!” (Matt 17:5, NRSV)

to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is the Messiah, the Lord. (Luke 2:11, NRSV)

And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14, NRSV)

Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:18, NRSV)

This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day.” (John 6:40, NRSV)

Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” (John 8:58, NRSV)

Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you; (Acts 13:38, NRSV)

because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:9, NRSV)

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, (Gal 4:4, NRSV)

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:5-11, NRSV)

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. (Col 3:17, NRSV)

For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself a ransom for all —this was attested at the right time. (1Tim 2:5-6, NRSV)

Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great: He was revealed in flesh, vindicated in spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory. (1Tim 3:16, NRSV)

So also Christ did not glorify himself in becoming a high priest, but was appointed by the one who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; (Heb 5:5, NRSV)

but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; (1Pet 3:15, NRSV)

For he received honor and glory from God the Father when that voice was conveyed to him by the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, my Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” (2Pet 1:17, NRSV)

continued next reply

Noah761 · Jan 4, 2022

He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages; and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age: perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity. (29-31)

Then he said to them, “I am deeply grieved, even to death; remain here, and stay awake with me.” (Matt 26:38, NRSV)

And Jesus increased in wisdom and in years, and in divine and human favor. (Luke 2:52, NRSV)

Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:39, NRSV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. (John 1:1-4, NRSV)
a good but different translation -
In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God’s presence, and what God was, the Word was. He was with God at the beginning, and through him all things came to be; without him no created thing came into being. (John 1:1-3, REB)

And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14, NRSV)

No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known. (John 1:18, NRSV)

so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. (John 5:23, NRSV)

I know him, because I am from him, and he sent me.” (John 7:29, NRSV)

The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30, NRSV) Jesus began to weep. (John 11:35, NRSV)

“Now my soul is troubled. And what should I say—‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it is for this reason that I have come to this hour. (John 12:27, NRSV)

All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:15, NRSV)

Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24, NRSV)

But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once blood and water came out. (John 19:33-34, NRSV)

For you will not abandon my soul to Hades[grave], or let your Holy One experience corruption. (Acts 2:27, NRSV)

the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh (Rom 1:3, NRSV)

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, (Gal 4:4, NRSV)

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:5-11, NRSV)

for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. (Col 1:16, NRSV)

Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ: (32)

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man’s trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many. (Rom 5:15, NRSV)

If, because of the one man’s trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. (Rom 5:17, NRSV)

yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (1Cor 8:6, NRSV)

one Lord, one faith, one baptism, (Eph 4:5, NRSV)

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. (1John 2:22, NRSV)

one, however, not by the conversion of the divinity into flesh, but by the assumption of humanity into God; one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ, (33-35)

“Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.” (Matt 1:23, NRSV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1, NRSV)

And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14, NRSV)

No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known. (John 1:18, NRSV)

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross. (Phil 2:5-8, NRSV)

Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death. For it is clear that he did not come to help angels, but the descendants of Abraham. Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the people. (Heb 2:14-17, NRSV)

Noah761 · Jan 4, 2022

posthuman said:

You are indeed correct. It appears you have encountered this heresy before and have looked into it. I only encountered it in years past with a Pentecostal co-worker who was a follower of Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland and those false prophets. I'd not encountered Kenotic Theology in any other current group, but upon study it seems it was at first dreamed up by a Lutheran but pretty well dismissed by the churches as heresy.

Yahshua · Jan 4, 2022

posthuman said:

Amen. All true Post, but so did these regular men...

Heal leper - Elijah, Elisha
Cast out demon - Paul

...and scripture says the Father raised Messiah from the dead (Acts 13:30; Romans 10:9). He didn't raise Himself. So it wasn't the fact that Messiah is Deity that He could do those things, but that He had the Spirit without measure (while those other men were given the Spirit in limited measure).

posthuman said:

Agreed. But maybe the contention is with regard to the concept of deity versus glory/divinity.

As far as I've studied in scripture there are classes of Beings:

- Man(kind)

- Demons (unclean spirits created by angels)

- Angels (created deity)

- The Godhead (eternal/uncreated deity)

Scripture calls Angels "Elohim" (Heb. "Mighty Ones") and "Sons of God"...but they're created Beings.

Scripture refers to the Father as "The Most High God" or "The Highest" El. Elohim is plural while El or Eloah is singular.

The Son is referred to as "The Right Hand"; "The Only Begotten" from the bosom of the Father; "The Express Image of The Invisible God" and "Exact representation of The Father's Glory".

----

So it doesn't matter what form The Son takes, He's always higher in rank than man, demon and angel. He is always Deity; always "God" in status and "Captain" in rank...but scripture says He took the likeness of man. "The Word was made Flesh"; "made into a man".

"That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit" (John 3:6) is a truth Messiah told Nicodemus. The Son no longer had The Father's Glory. He no longer had His divinity, and so He could be tempted as we are and could die as we do...but the Messiah overcame both of those things, showing us that it's possible to live as a man by the Spirit in obedience to God, and giving us the help to do so (and more) once He returned to the Father and His glory was restored.

John 14:12 [brackets mine]
Verily[truth], verily[truth], I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he; because I go unto my Father.

[anything said twice in scripture is placing emphasis. The Messiah emphasizes that what He's saying is absolutely true.]

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

Elijah never helped a leper.
No leper had ever been healed but Naaman the Syrian - and it was God, not Elisha, who healed him.
Elisha would not even come out to speak to Naaman.

No one has ever cast out a deaf mute spirit. You have a Jewish name but don't know Jewish tradition? In order to cast out a demon you must know it's name. So a mute demon cannot be forced to tell you, and a deaf cannot hear when you call it out. This man was brought to Jesus on purpose because of exactly that: these are proofs that only the Messiah can do, because the Messiah is God Himself dwelling with us, who searches the hearts and knows all things. Immanuel

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

He said He would raise Himself:

John 2:19-21
Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

John 10:18
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

Either He is lying or He raises Himself.
That the Father is also said to raise Him is another proof that Christ is God, One with the Father.

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

This passage is tragically misunderstood.
What He literally says is "Amen Amen" - an Hebrew word not a Greek one. And instead off 'thus sayeth the LORD' He says "I say"
He is identifying Himself as THE AMEN - a name of God, Isaiah 65:16

And what great work has any man done that the Creator of heaven and earth has not done?
Our works are greater because we believe even though we have not seen Him.

Noah761 · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

Sir, you wrote: "...and scripture says the Father raised Messiah from the dead (Acts 13:30; Romans 10:9). He didn't raise Himself."

"Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, 'This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?' But he was speaking of the temple of his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken." (John 2:19-22, NRSV)

As I find so often, the Puritan Matthew Poole explains it well:

"Destroy, is as much as, I know you will destroy, or, If you do destroy this temple, I will build it up in three days. The resurrection of Christ from the dead is ordinarily in Scripture attributed to the Father; but here Christ saith he would do it; and the Spirit, by whom he is said to have been quickened, equally proceedeth both from the Father and the Son. Nor is this the only text where it is attributed to Christ; see Joh 20:17,18. It was the work of the Trinity, out of itself, and so the work of all the three Persons. These words were three years after this made a great charge against Christ, Mat 26:61; but they reported them thus, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. He said only, this temple, meaning his body."

Yahshua · Jan 4, 2022

posthuman said:

The miracles are attributed to those prophets respectively, but it's all through the power of God's Spirit. Every single miracle from Elijah to Messiah to Paul. That's the point. It's why I said a few times that regular men did so through the Holy Spirit, and that it's not an argument for Messiah's deity being the reason for those miracles. And it's why Messiah said the most unforgivable sin to attribute a miracle (a work of the Holy Spirit) to the work of the devil.

Matthew 12:24;28;31
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “Only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, does this man drive out demons.”

[Messiah answers...]

28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

posthuman said:

Matthew 10:7-8
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.’

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils. Freely ye have received; freely give.

He commanded his disciples to do this. But you're trying to disqualify based on type?

posthuman said:

...I wouldn't go here if I were you. You're better than this comment. Ad Hominem. It's a Hebrew name, and Hebrew tradition is not Jewish tradition. Jewish tradition is Talmudic and of the Pharisees, often based on pagan folklore. Base your argument on scripture.

Acts 16:18
And she was doing this for many days. And Paul, having been greatly-annoyed, and having turned to the spirit, said, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to depart from her!” And it went out at the very hour

What was the name of the spirit in the girl?

Don't nullify the word of God with traditions of man (Mark 7:13).

posthuman said:

You're pitting scripture against scripture.

Acts 13:33-35
And now we proclaim to you the good news: What God promised our fathers He has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.

34 In fact, God raised Him from the dead, never to see decay. As He has said: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

35 So also, He says in another Psalm: ‘You will not let Your Holy One see decay.

Luke 26:46
And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit.” And having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

Messiah was dead. His body was dead. The Father had His Spirit. It's critical to our confession:

Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

posthuman said:

So He was going around saying "Me, Me..." and then would make a statement? Come on, that's silly...

What does "amen" mean?

Yahshua · Jan 4, 2022

Noah761 said:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

^ At His resurrection.

Hebrew 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.

8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered.

9 And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

^ At His resurrection.

This is why it's so critical to confess that The Son of God came in the flesh because it's the power of salvation for all those who believe. The Messiah became "The Resurrection". The resurrection of our corruption into incorruption is our blessed hope; mortality into immortality.

1 John 4:1-3 [footnote]
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus [*footnote*] is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.

*Footnote:
(BYZ and TR) that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh 

"In the flesh" means "like a man", exposed to temptations and death as we are.

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

you should be asking questions when you read something like this

Yahshua said:

Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

(Matthew 12:22-24)

who brought this demon possessed blind and mute man to Christ?
- is it the same pharisees who immediately accuse Him?
why did they bring him to Jesus?
- why are pharisees typically bringing people to Christ?
- what did they expect to happen?
where did they get a demon-possessed blind & mute man?
is it a coincidence? did they bring this particular man to Jesus on purpose?
what's the significance of blind and mute demon possessed?
- is it meaningless?
- why is it in scripture? why does God want us to know this detail?
- where else do we have blind mute and demons in scripture?
  - all together?
    - how does any such instance of these three things together in scripture relate to this?
  - separately?
    - how are the separate instances related to each other in a way that explains this?
why did the multitudes wonder if He is the Messiah when they see what Jesus does with this man?
- is that a meaningless detail or does God have a specific purpose for noting this, now?
- what is significant about a blind a mute demon possessed man being healed?
  - how does it relate to the Messiah?
  - how is it specific to the Messiah?
  - why don't the people simply say 'could this be a prophet?'
  - what is more significant about this blind mute demon possessed man than any of the multitudes He healed in verse 15?
    - " But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there. And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all. " -- verse 15
  - were there any demon possessed among the great multitudes?
    - were there any blind?
    - any mute?
    - any blind mute demon possessed?
  - why does the multitude wait until He heals a blind mute demon possessed man that was brought to Him before wondering if He is the Messiah?
- the great multitude "follows" Him but the blind mute demon possessed possessed man "is brought" to Him - why?
  - what's the difference between following and being brought?
  - why does God point this out?
  - again, who brought him, and why?
    - what information in the immediate context explains this?
why do the Pharisees accuse Him of doing this by Beelzebub?
- why now?
  - why not before? why not after?
  - why is the healing of a blind mute demon possessed man the trigger for this response?
  - what does a blind mute demon possessed man being healed have to do with Beelzebub?
    - what is the Pharisees logic?
    - where else in scripture do we have unbelievers accusing God of being Satan?
      - how does it relate?
    - why do they see healing a blind mute demon possessed man as evidence of Beelzebub?
    - has Beelzebub ever healed a blind mute demon possessed man?
      - why did they think anyone would believe them?
      - how many people believed them?
      - why did those people believe them?
  - The people see this and wonder if He is the Christ - the Pharisees accuse Him of being Antichrist
    - what does a blind mute demon possessed man have to do with both the Messiah and Beelzebub?
    - what is the people's logic?
    - where else in the Bible do people see blind mute and demon-possession healed and give glory to God?

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

Yahshua said:

And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub,
by whom do your sons cast them out?
Therefore they shall be your judges
(Matthew 12:27)

cast out demons - Pharisees and their sons do. God says so.
ask questions.

if the Pharisees can cast out demons also, why are there any demon possessed in the land at all?
- how many Pharisees & sons of Pharisees are there?
- how many Jesus is there?
why didn't the Pharisees cast the demon out of the blind mute man they brought to Jesus themselves?
- could they?
- had they tried?
- had they gotten him demon possessed in the first place?
- is this a trap?
  - of course it's a trap; that's what they do
  - what is the trap?
    - what do they expect to happen?
    - how many possible outcomes to this did they think of before they found this man and brought him to Jesus?
    - what are they planning to say in each possible outcome?
    - why are the bringing him in front of the multitude rather than privily or at some other place?
    - how long have they planned this?
    - what will their accusation be if He fails to heal him?
    - why is their accusation what it is?
    - why now, why in front of the multitude?

ewq1938 · Jan 4, 2022

posthuman said:

He didn't raise himself from the dead. He could have, but he didn't. All scripture that are post-resurrection say God the Father raised Christ from the dead:

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Act_5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Act 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him who made Jesus come again from the dead is in you, he who made Christ Jesus come again from the dead will in the same way, through his Spirit which is in you, give life to your bodies which now are under the power of death.

Mat 17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
Mat 17:23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

And we know from all the other verses that he was raised again and it was by the Father.

posthuman · Jan 4, 2022

ewq1938 said:

why did He say "I will raise it up" and "I take it up again" ?

you're telling me He was lying; that He was quite wrong.

i am telling you, you have proven that He and the Father are One.

ewq1938 · Jan 4, 2022

posthuman said:

No, I am not telling you that. You need to study scripture more.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh_12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

This is concerning Jesus thus we cannot claim everything Jesus said was him speaking of himself. Sometimes the Father spoke through Jesus.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Go back to what Jesus said:

"I will raise it up"

"my words which he (Christ) shall speak"
"my (the Father's) words in his (Christ's) mouth"
"the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak"
"whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak"
"as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things"

We cannot say Jesus definitely said he would raise himself from the dead. We can say the Father gave Jesus things to say, and he said them and the writers of scripture say over and over that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Naturally the most important thing is that Jesus did die and did rise back to life in a resurrection. Whether it was he or his Father that resurrected him is somewhat minor of an issue but I do believe it is best to get things as accurate as possible. In other biblical issues a small mistake can become the faulty foundation of a false doctrine so let's show ourselves approved and show God that we know who raised Jesus from the dead

Can God be tempted? How well do we truly know Jesus Christ?

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