Can God be trusted?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#1
When I post that God can be trusted to always remain the same, that God is and has always been eternal, I am laughed at and ridiculed. They ask if I believe in killing animals for blood and if I obey the 613 laws. They say that God even changed the laws that our earth is operated by and then they quote Paul.

I realize that at one time Paul had used his perception of God’s law to even cause people to be killed and after Paul met Christ to learn how wrong it was he was dedicated to teach others not to make that same mistake. But I don’t think Paul taught anyone to oppose God, and I feel sure God is eternal and does not change. God established His doctrines and gave them to us in scripture and I feel sure scripture about what was is still true and is scripture about what is today.

Yet most Christians are opposed to this idea. I hope you will all post why you think so, and how it is to live in a world created by a God that changes so is unpredictable. I should think it would be very frightening for if God changes, God can not be depended on.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
2,476
1,875
113
#2
"Are not all things of God...absolute. Has not the world polluted, mocked and gone to
great lengths to 'insert' imaginary and distorted 'thinking' into changing God into a god of their illusions.
Once outside the spiritual realm of Christ...the world becomes the master...does it not."
'Praise God'
 

Attachments

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,851
2,490
113
#3
But I don’t think Paul taught anyone to oppose God, and I feel sure God is eternal and does not change. God established His doctrines and gave them to us in scripture and I feel sure scripture about what was is still true and is scripture about what is today.

Yet most Christians are opposed to this idea.
Well the discussion would be helped if you would put forward an example of Christians being opposed to the Idea..
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#4
Well the discussion would be helped if you would put forward an example of Christians being opposed to the Idea..
Blik said:

Jesus did not come to change anything,

YourtruthGod said: “Of course he did!
The old law was not based on faith and the new law is.
No one is supposed to take an eye for an eye, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot.
No one is supposed to have many wives and concubines.
No one is supposed to get married and divorced up to three times.
No one has to get circumcised, observe special days, and do various external baths just to be near God's Spirit; no one has to adhere to a special diet and observe special days; no one has to sacrifice animals and go to a temple.
No one has to get cut off for sinning, if they repent.”

Blik said:

To the contrary. What Christ did for us on the cross is only the beginning of the wonders of life with the Lord is about. First, we learn of the payment made for our sins on the cross, that is the beginning. Then we learn to live with God as the center of our life. If you stop at the cross and refuse to grow with the Lord you are robbing yourself.

MessageoftheCross said: “Remember, if you leave the Cross, you walk away from God! Most Christians have left their First Love. They are proclaiming Jesus, but forsaking the Cross (lukewarm). This is called "Spiritual Adultery." If it continues, the scripture says the light is removed! Revelation 2:1-7; Revelation 3:14-19

Seedtime expressed today’s church against our physical obedience to God’s guidance, when scripture tells us to act on the spirit’s direction: “JESUS ,was talking about the spiritual when man was relating the spiritual by expressing It to be physical.”

The question remains, did God explain Himself through Christ in the Sermon on the MT, was a new and different God created, or did God decide to redo Himself and change who He was? Can God be trusted?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
#5
When I post that God can be trusted to always remain the same, that God is and has always been eternal, I am laughed at and ridiculed. They ask if I believe in killing animals for blood and if I obey the 613 laws. They say that God even changed the laws that our earth is operated by and then they quote Paul.
Yes the laws changed:

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#6
Yes the laws changed:

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
If God changed the laws, God cannot be trusted not to change other things in our world. We are living in a world we cannot rely on at all, God is in control and is changeable not an eternal God at all.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
#7
If God changed the laws, God cannot be trusted not to change other things in our world. We are living in a world we cannot rely on at all, God is in control and is changeable not an eternal God at all.
So you reject Hebrews as canonical Scripture?

OK.

What other books do you reject?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,840
6,910
113
#8
If God changed the laws, God cannot be trusted not to change other things in our world. We are living in a world we cannot rely on at all, God is in control and is changeable not an eternal God at all.
Your god is too small.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,778
2,006
113
#9
MAL 3:6.
For I Am The LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

HEB. 13:8.
Jesus Christ The Same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,472
554
113
#10
If God changed the laws, God cannot be trusted not to change other things in our world. We are living in a world we cannot rely on at all, God is in control and is changeable not an eternal God at all.
God who electet Israel is the same who collectet us. The law was given to the folk of Israel and it needet sacrifice, because it was not able to fullfill the law. We are under grace, also we need a sacrifice because we are not able to live without sin and was born in sin. So where has God changed?
We can trust God, because he stands to his word. We can trust only him!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,298
17,801
113
#11
If God changed the laws, God cannot be trusted not to change other things in our world. We are living in a world we cannot rely on at all, God is in control and is changeable not an eternal God at all.
No offence, but this post and the above posts lack understanding.....the first covenant was designed to prove the guilt of man and points to the cure which is found in the second covenant of Grace and in Christ!......

Geesh......study the word and het aome understanding friend.....
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
4,650
1,773
113
#12
When I post that God can be trusted to always remain the same, that God is and has always been eternal, I am laughed at and ridiculed. They ask if I believe in killing animals for blood and if I obey the 613 laws. They say that God even changed the laws that our earth is operated by and then they quote Paul.

I realize that at one time Paul had used his perception of God’s law to even cause people to be killed and after Paul met Christ to learn how wrong it was he was dedicated to teach others not to make that same mistake. But I don’t think Paul taught anyone to oppose God, and I feel sure God is eternal and does not change. God established His doctrines and gave them to us in scripture and I feel sure scripture about what was is still true and is scripture about what is today.

Yet most Christians are opposed to this idea. I hope you will all post why you think so, and how it is to live in a world created by a God that changes so is unpredictable. I should think it would be very frightening for if God changes, God can not be depended on.
Don't know which Christians you're referring to, I've only heard unbelievers make such foolish arguments. Why would you keep law? Did God make an old testament covenant with you?
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
142
43
#13
Your thread would be more meaningful and helpful if it specified the issues that call God's trustworthiness into question for some Christians.
(1) Can God's OT revelation be trusted to apply to today?
Not necessarily because divine revelation is progressive. So you need to grasp how the NT nullifies, changes, or adopts various OT teachings. You might start with the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus alters standard teaching with the frequent phrase, "You have heard it said by men of old,...but I say unto you."

(2) Can God be trusted to answer my needy prayers?
Not necessarily. I may not satisfy God's conditions for effective petitionary prayer. And I may not grasp God's will for my life. Read 2 Corinthians 12:6-20 and you'll see that God never removed Paul's "thorn in the flesh," despite 3 prayer sessions.

(3) Jesus taught us to address God as our heavenly Father. So can God be trusted to treat me exactly the way a loving Dad would?
Not always: "My thoughts are not your thoughts; nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)." Whatever happens, we know that God loves us and has our best spiritual interests at heart.

(4) Can God be trusted to guarantee my safety when I drive or walk to my destination today?
(a) Not necessarily: "All are victims of time and chance (Ecclesiastes 9:11)." Yesterday I was almost run over as I began to cross a street at an intersection cross-walk. The driver floored it just as I began to cross in front of him and if I hadn't lunged backwards suddenly enough, I would have been run over.
(b) James the son of Zebedee and Peter were imprisoned by Herod for their faith at the same time (Acts 12:1-2). Christians prayed in Mary's house for their deliverance and Peter was delivered by angel with an earthquake, but James was executed. We don't know why Peter alone was spared.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#14
So you reject Hebrews as canonical Scripture?

OK.

What other books do you reject?
You are not explaining our position that God has changed His principles, only pointed a wagging finger at me. Explain your position that God is a changeable God so you cannot rely on any one scripture, it can change at the whim of God. My study of scripture tells me I can rely on the Lord, that the principles of our creator is the same from creation until today.

Forget the finger pointing and explain yourself, OK?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,840
6,910
113
#15
You are not explaining our position that God has changed His principles, only pointed a wagging finger at me. Explain your position that God is a changeable God so you cannot rely on any one scripture, it can change at the whim of God. My study of scripture tells me I can rely on the Lord, that the principles of our creator is the same from creation until today.

Forget the finger pointing and explain yourself, OK?
He already did, by quoting Hebrews. It's on you to respond to that challenge. You're attempting a burden of proof reversal while dodging your reasonable responsibility.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#16
Your thread would be more meaningful and helpful if it specified the issues that call God's trustworthiness into question for some Christians.
(1) Can God's OT revelation be trusted to apply to today?
Not necessarily because divine revelation is progressive. So you need to grasp how the NT nullifies, changes, or adopts various OT teachings. You might start with the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus alters standard teaching with the frequent phrase, "You have heard it said by men of old,...but I say unto you."

I answered: Thank you for answering with your position. You say God is progressive and that is a fancy way of saying that God changes. Can you trust that God's "progression" is dependable? My studies tell me God is eternal and is dependable with principles that I can rely on.

You said: (2) Can God be trusted to answer my needy prayers?
Not necessarily. I may not satisfy God's conditions for effective petitionary prayer. And I may not grasp God's will for my life. Read 2 Corinthians 12:6-20 and you'll see that God never removed Paul's "thorn in the flesh," despite 3 prayer sessions.

I answered: In my book God answers every single prayer, but I need to keep that prayer within the principles of God

You said: (3) Jesus taught us to address God as our heavenly Father. So can God be trusted to treat me exactly the way a loving Dad would?
Not always: "My thoughts are not your thoughts; nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)." Whatever happens, we know that God loves us and has our best spiritual interests at heart.

(4) Can God be trusted to guarantee my safety when I drive or walk to my destination today?
(a) Not necessarily: "All are victims of time and chance (Ecclesiastes 9:11)." Yesterday I was almost run over as I began to cross a street at an intersection cross-walk. The driver floored it just as I began to cross in front of him and if I hadn't lunged backwards suddenly enough, I would have been run over.
(b) James the son of Zebedee and Peter were imprisoned by Herod for their faith at the same time (Acts 12:1-2). Christians prayed in Mary's house for their deliverance and Peter was delivered by angel with an earthquake, but James was executed. We don't know why Peter alone was spared.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#17
Don't know which Christians you're referring to, I've only heard unbelievers make such foolish arguments. Why would you keep law? Did God make an old testament covenant with you?
Absolutely God made an "OT" covenant with me. The OT is scripture, the NT is scripture, there is no scripture that gives a different principle of God neither is there scripture that gives me lies. The God I know never, ever, takes a promise back for the God I know is eternal, the same always.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
4,650
1,773
113
#18
Absolutely God made an "OT" covenant with me. The OT is scripture, the NT is scripture, there is no scripture that gives a different principle of God neither is there scripture that gives me lies. The God I know never, ever, takes a promise back for the God I know is eternal, the same always.
Since you weren't alive back then, God absolutely did NOT make an o. t. covenant with you.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#19
No offence, but this post and the above posts lack understanding.....the first covenant was designed to prove the guilt of man and points to the cure which is found in the second covenant of Grace and in Christ!......

Geesh......study the word and het aome understanding friend.....
You are not being very clear with this post. I surly do not agree with you that God spoke of His relationship with us as only designed to make us guilty. In may bible grace was told of in Genesis, are you saying it began with Christ?

The first covenant included blessing God promised us, are you actually saying that God is changing so we may not be blessed any longer?