Can I change reality with my words?

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Kim82

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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From the OP:




Those aren't questions, those are statements.

Later on she tried to twist out of them.



Uh huh. And I guess "which you might have recognized if you had read with 'both ears open'" wasn't flippant.
But Sir, if I believed in something why would I need to ask a hypothetical question?

And if I actually believed that, then you mean to tell me that you think you are so big and powerful to get me to "twist out of them"? Sir instead of browbeating people into agreeing with you, go and chat with others who share your opinions.

There are persons who have testified that they have done exactly as the hypothetical question i asked, and they received the things or blessings they claimed. If I want to discuss the matter to ask everyone there take on it, then I can. All you need to do, is state what you believe about the topic and allow others to do the same. Even if there be any difference of opinions, that's cool, I want to hear everyone's opinion on the matter so I can increase in knowledge and form a proper opinion myself.

I am not a bible scholar, I want to hear what people have to say. Is it a sin to ask a question?

If I had started the thread preaching that you all should claim your cars, and houses and healings then I could understand you having an issue with that.

But I only asked a question, I did not mean for it to be taken as my personal feelings on the matter.

I would also advise you and others not to thrash those who make claims of extraordinary things God did for them. How can we be sure those people are not speaking truthfully?

Anyway I'm done. I will not respond to anymore browbeating.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,576
3,166
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From the OP:




Those aren't questions, those are statements.

Later on she tried to twist out of them.



Uh huh. And I guess "which you might have recognized if you had read with 'both ears open'" wasn't flippant.
you completely misunderstood

you read into her words from your own understanding

which is biased and without merit

but don't let me stop you. you have a Bible I assume?

oh both ears open was actually sarcasm but at the same time, I am not being funny. many people here could read with both ears open and there would be far less vitriol

and you can quote me
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,576
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Yes this is what I think also.

If we were perfect in knowing the will of God, we would indeed be successful in all our prayer request since we would only ask for the things God wanted us to have. But since we are not, God has given us a remedy
Romans 8:26-27
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

that has been my understanding of your op since page 1

glad you say so yet again :)
 

MJ1

Member
Jan 22, 2019
22
12
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Paul had an illness, to do with his eyes, some wonder if he had a mild form of epilepsy. Whatever it was, he was happy enough to sing hymns after he had been beaten in prison.
This life can be hard can't it, but thankfully it is for a short time, and then our physical, or mental ailments will be no more
God bless
It's not really known if it was his eyes, such is a supposition due to Paul's comment about using large print. What we do know is that God allowed a messenger of Satan to torment Paul, this thorn in Paul's flesh was to keep him humble less he should boast.

2 Corinthians 12:7-10 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (NKJV Strong's,)

Instead of removing the infirmity, whatever it was, God gave Paul and exceeding abundance of grace and compensated his weakness in the flesh with strength from His Spirit. It was by not removing the thorn that Paul likely learned that God’s “power is made perfect in weakness” (verse 9). "where sin increased, grace abounded all the more" Rom. 5:20.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,576
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Here's a reason I don't believe she has lost her Word Faith beliefs. She has been contacted many times, by different Christian organizations, to see if she refutes the heretical things she said in the 1990's. She will not talk to anyone. If I had believed something wrong, and found the truth I would be telling the world about it, and writing about it, just as she did with her former bad doctrines. But, she says nothing? Why? Because I don't think she has changed her doctrines on anything. Here is a link to things she has said. I don't agree with a few things CARM says, but basically it is right about doctrine.

https://carm.org/joyce-meyer

But, she sort of recanted. Here is a less than one month article from CARM. If she goes a few steps farther, I will recant what I have said!

https://carm.org/joyce-meyer-prosperity-faith-teaching-got-out-of-balance

I have a hard time believing a preacher/teacher who preached such unbiblical stuff. Even if she says other good, helpful things, she has rather tainted herself. So, we will see where she goes. Time will tell.

I understand but I have never heard her say any of the things that would indicate to me she still teaches those things

I only started listening to her about 3 years or so now and the books I have are really soundly based on scripture

I don't change what I have said in the past with regards to say Prince and a few others; I only know I have been blessed the times I do watch her

she also has outreach ministries in other countries

we all have to give an account, so if there is something there I have not 'caught', well it has not damaged me either

I know I've changed my mind on things through my travels in this world

I'll check out the links later...the mob here wants supper
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
1,772
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Yes, Jesus heales today, too. No question. But not all who comes to Him. He saves all who comes to him for eternity, but he heals not all physically who comes to Him. And this i find in the scripture. But I cant find your teaching in the scripture.
Can you quote one scripture where anyone comes to him for healing, he decline to heal? As far as I know, there is none.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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What sense makes it if I know i am not sick, becausevyou told me this. But i am suffering with a sickness which is painful and will lead me to death.
Please, you really will tell this sick people?
Sorry this is an horrible teaching which gives a wrong hope to a needy person.

Real hope is that Jesus pays for my sin, and because I trust in him I will be with him in eternity. This has his base in the scriptue.

What you are teaches has his base in human mind, but not in Gods word!
Like I have said many times in this thread, for us at this present age, its far easier to believe that our sins are forgiven, because there is no possible physical proof to show. That is why its easy for us to just put our faith in God's word for salvation.

But when it comes to healing, we can see with our physical eyes whether someone is healed or not. So its very easy for us to use our senses, instead of trusting God's word.

Do you understand this difference?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Maybe. But the easy answer is that healing of all infirmities in totality come post resurrection in the Kingdom......
True, some will get 30 fold, some get 60, others get a 100, but I would like to pursue the 100 fold in this life on earth. :)
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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But what about Hagin, Sr. and Crouch? They taught what you teach and didn’t get better but died...flat out died.
That might be true but I don't see why that should matter to your own personal belief. You believe in God for healing, if you don't see it manifested in the physical realm, worse is you get to go to Heaven, that is a good outcome too.

But you know that, in the spiritual realm, the healing has already been paid for 2000 years ago. Your spirit is your true identity.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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I listen to her sometimes and have a few books by her

I would not if she were teaching things that scripture does not back up

She has changed over the years and if she was once WOF she is certainly not so anymore

yet people keep saying that she is. it's pretty sad IMO
I agree with you too. I would definitely not consider her a WOF preacher now, although she might have been one in the past.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Miracles don't save the soul. Some of those who preformed miracles or have had miracles will still be cast into the fiery pit....

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
True, but Jesus's finished work on the cross accomplish more than just salvation for all who believe.

If you don't want to partake on those other things, that is a choice that you make.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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If I want a car can I go to the dealership, place my hand on a car and say, I'm declaring that this car will be mine's RIGHT NOW!

The bible says:

there is power and life in the tongue.

If I tell the mountain to be cast in the sea, it will happen.

When the children of Israel were going through the wilderness, God came near their tents and heard them saying Moses took them in the wilderness to die. God said it will be done just as they have said. And only their children will see the promised land.

How do you guys feel on this matter?
Hi Kim,
I like your post and your patience with the answers on here.

CAN you go up to any car and verbally claim it? Yes... But if you don't want to look like a fool when it doesn't work , you'd better go spend some time talking it out with God first.

God will guide you in your prayers if you let him. Be honest. When he asks you why you want something, be honest with yourself and him. He'll teach you how to "prove all things" regarding your motives and requests, and "hold fast that which is good" to the point that you are left with (and have developed) a very specific, very answerable prayer. Then you get to see him work. :) Thank-you Jesus.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Can you quote one scripture where anyone comes to him for healing, he decline to heal? As far as I know, there is none.
Sorry, maby i missed it to express it clear.
1.While Jesus was on earth, he healed all who came to him.
2.Today Jesus is not healing all who pray for healing.
There are plenty verses in the gospels which proof the first, but no verse which promissed phydical healing for a follower of Jesus after he went in heaven. Even Paul and some of his coworkers got sick.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Like I have said many times in this thread, for us at this present age, its far easier to believe that our sins are forgiven, because there is no possible physical proof to show. That is why its easy for us to just put our faith in God's word for salvation.

But when it comes to healing, we can see with our physical eyes whether someone is healed or not. So its very easy for us to use our senses, instead of trusting God's word.

Do you understand this difference?
Yes, i understand the different.
But i cant find a promisse like:
If you believe me you never will be sick ore handycapped.

I find f.e.the promise: if you follow me you will be persecutet as I was.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Sorry, maby i missed it to express it clear.
1.While Jesus was on earth, he healed all who came to him.
2.Today Jesus is not healing all who pray for healing.
There are plenty verses in the gospels which proof the first, but no verse which promissed phydical healing for a follower of Jesus after he went in heaven. Even Paul and some of his coworkers got sick.
One revelation that might be useful to you is that the word used in the NT, saved or salvation, the greek word is the word sozo which means more than just eternal life in heaven. Here is a reference that you can use https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/lexicon.show/ID/g4982/page/1

I certainly agree with you that you can be sick, I think all of us have experienced sickness in one form or another. But does this mean it is not God's will that we are well always? An analogy will be useful here, think of symptom to sicknesses like temptation to sin.

When you see symptoms appearing in your body, your job is to resist it as much as you can, like what you might do when it comes to resisting temptation.

While you are being tempted, you have not sinned yet, but when you give in to the temptation, that is where the sin happens.

Likewise when you have the symptoms, you are not sick yet, but the moment you do not resist the symptoms, that is when you fall sick. It is not the Lord's will for you to be sick, just as it is not his will for you to fall into sin.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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Paul had an illness of the eyes, scripture does not say he got healed of it:

As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. Gal4:13-15
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
1,772
326
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Paul had an illness of the eyes, scripture does not say he got healed of it:

As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. Gal4:13-15
I agree, I was discussing this issue when it comes to those of us who are into dispensations here https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ists-believe-in-cessation-of-miracles.182378/