Can I change reality with my words?

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unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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I agree, I was discussing this issue when it comes to those of us who are into dispensations here https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ists-believe-in-cessation-of-miracles.182378/
When I was 2&4 I was constantly in one of the most leading hospitals for children in my country. Doctors told my mother I had a form of epilepsy and would never attend a normal school, I was top heavy and constantly fell over. The doctors gave my parents permission to take me on holiday, giving my mother nine different prescribed drugs to give me while we were away. The night before we went on holiday, my father asked my mother if she had packed my drugs. She replied. ''No'' I believe God will, or has healed our son.
After we came back from holiday I was taken to the hospital. The doctors were amazed at thew transformation in me. Once a month, for six months they instructed my mother to return to the hospital with me, sure my illness would return, it did not. After six months they dismissed me from the hospital fully.
I am not saying there is a hard and fast rule that everyone should throw away prescribed medication given and trust for a healing. As with most things, it depends on the individual, or what God leads you to do.
An Evangelist, who saw tremendous miracles of healing in their services, that were medically verified, was asked once: 'Why are not all healed in your services?' The reply came quickly: 'That is the first thing I want to ask Jesus when I get to Heaven.'

I believe in miracles
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,294
424
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One revelation that might be useful to you is that the word used in the NT, saved or salvation, the greek word is the word sozo which means more than just eternal life in heaven. Here is a reference that you can use https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/lexicon.show/ID/g4982/page/1

I certainly agree with you that you can be sick, I think all of us have experienced sickness in one form or another. But does this mean it is not God's will that we are well always? An analogy will be useful here, think of symptom to sicknesses like temptation to sin.

When you see symptoms appearing in your body, your job is to resist it as much as you can, like what you might do when it comes to resisting temptation.

While you are being tempted, you have not sinned yet, but when you give in to the temptation, that is where the sin happens.

Likewise when you have the symptoms, you are not sick yet, but the moment you do not resist the symptoms, that is when you fall sick. It is not the Lord's will for you to be sick, just as it is not his will for you to fall into sin.
Well, your example with Sickness to compare it with Sin is not Funktion. Your may have Sickness which you can identyfy through the symptoms and also you can try to resist in takeing medicine ore food which fight against this deseases. But in the most cases, special with cancer, you will see the Symptomes when the stage of Sickness is very far in progress.
Against some deseases you cant do anything!

The Main reason why Jesus healed you find in John 20, 29-30.
And I suppose that all which he healed finally dies because of any diseases ore Sickness of any Organs.
Even those he called back from the death later dies.
If his main goal was to heal. The result was very temporary.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,294
424
83
When I was 2&4 I was constantly in one of the most leading hospitals for children in my country. Doctors told my mother I had a form of epilepsy and would never attend a normal school, I was top heavy and constantly fell over. The doctors gave my parents permission to take me on holiday, giving my mother nine different prescribed drugs to give me while we were away. The night before we went on holiday, my father asked my mother if she had packed my drugs. She replied. ''No'' I believe God will, or has healed our son.
After we came back from holiday I was taken to the hospital. The doctors were amazed at thew transformation in me. Once a month, for six months they instructed my mother to return to the hospital with me, sure my illness would return, it did not. After six months they dismissed me from the hospital fully.
I am not saying there is a hard and fast rule that everyone should throw away prescribed medication given and trust for a healing. As with most things, it depends on the individual, or what God leads you to do.
An Evangelist, who saw tremendous miracles of healing in their services, that were medically verified, was asked once: 'Why are not all healed in your services?' The reply came quickly: 'That is the first thing I want to ask Jesus when I get to Heaven.'

I believe in miracles
Yes, and God is still doing them.
What I recognize is, that God is Working much more with Miracles, when the Gospel is preached to nonbelievers und in Missionareas.

But this indicates not, that all christians will live and Stay in health condition.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,816
113
Is it a sin to ask a question?

If I had started the thread preaching that you all should claim your cars, and houses and healings then I could understand you having an issue with that.

You didn't ask, you made statements. Which is exactly what I pointed out.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,816
113
you completely misunderstood

you read into her words from your own understanding
Hardly. I read exactly what she wrote. She is subtly defending such nonsense when she says things like:

There are persons who have testified that they have done exactly as the hypothetical question i asked, and they received the things or blessings they claimed.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
113
What always kills me, is there are a bunch of healthy people on a thread like this, declaring healing, when they basically have never been unhealthy., They say something about following biblical principles, believing God, confessing sin or whatever.

But they have never been faced with a serious, painful disease that will kill them sooner or later. Then they declare to disabled people like me, that they have all the answers, pulled right out of context from the Bible. And the implication is always there, that if you had ate better, lived for God more, obeyed God, confessed your sin, etc, etc, you also would be well, like them.

Well, here is the bad news. My mom is 89, healthy as a horse, living on her own, doing well. She is not a Christian. Then there is me, disabled and in constant pain. I started reading the Bible daily a few weeks before God saved me, in 1980. I have obeyed God through some terrible times, and some great ones. My life is completely committed to God, and everything he says in Scripture.

I also have an aunt who is 95 and active. She is a Christian. She is blind from macular degeneration, which also has blinded her 3 other, younger sisters. Her daughter, a fervent Christian and nurse, got Stage 4 ovarian cancer, and will be lucky to live a few more years with constant chemo, as it has already metastized. my aunt is incredibly active. For years, she has helped pack food for the "poor seniors" as she puts it, who are 20-30 years younger than her.

So older people who are healthy and not Christian; a Christian who is blind through a genetic disorder, who is otherwise healthy. A vibrant woman who loves God with all her heart, mind, soul and strength, facing a death sentence from cancer. And me, who has been sick for 22 years with a debilitating disease, who is happy, loves God, very active in church in the ways I am able, a pastor, now looking to help the hurting and broken, through education, and more important, the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Apply your simplistic, out of context, bad hermeneutics false doctrine, and no one should be what they are. The Christians should be healed, the nonChristians should be sick. And yet, too many won't listen.

If God heals you, that is wonderful! My hope is that someday God will heal me in this life. But if he does not, and waits for eternity, I will praise him, one way or another. The Christian walk is a complicated and difficult journey for all of us. God chooses not to tie a bunch of gifts up for us, and then walk away, because every we have it all. Instead, he encourages us to walk with him through the storm, and trust him. When I was in seminary, God gave me these 2 verses, which I meditated on for 2 years, every morning for 1/2 hour. God taught me more about who he is, and he taught me to trust him, and not myself.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding,
Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will direct your paths." Prov. 3:5-6

This helps me persevere, and rejoice, knowing that I can trust God! It also helps that I know the Bible so well, and God speaks to me through it every day. He had hermeneutics as a subject in my MDiv, and I learned how to correctly divide the Word, and to speak the truth in love, that Word Faith is a lie from the devil.

Again, Word Faith is a heresy, coming out of bad doctrine. We do not receive all the gifts and our lives are perfect because we are born again. Instead, we are living in a fallen world, and learning and growing, and being transformed by the Holy Spirit. Some day, we will be glorified, and then, we will be perfect. I am happy now, with the amazing way Jesus is teaching and leading me. I look forward with intense anticipation for when I meet Jesus face to face, when he returns. Can you say the same?
Its not a WOF problem.
The bible is still the bible.
I have many,many,issues with WOF.
NOT WITH the verses they use,but EMPHASIS on prosperity.
Not with prosperity itself,just the EMPHASIS.

My point is,if nobody but 10 souls get saved,does that diminish the cross,the resurrection,or Jesus?
Now ,if out of those 10,7 fall away,does that diminish the WOG ?
If the remaining 3 have a hard time,or a extravagant blessing,d o es that have any bearing on their duty to stay in faith?
What you are doing is brushing aside the word,to center on your situation.

I did that myself,to my own harm.
What happens is,by Going after those that dare to believe,your own faith,as you unknowingly demonstrate,ends up suffering.
IOW, We destroy what little faith we once had.
Sickness is a curse. Healing is the childrens bread.

Refuse that thing trying to get you.
Come to Jesus like a child,lay down the theology,and get into the basic will of God.
Settle it.
Healing is for me. It is my portion. It is my inheritance.
If I look upon that brass serpent (Jesus) i WILL be healed.
Turn that entire picture of "healing may not come" on its head.
Reverse that entire scenario.

Settle it. Declare His word back to him.

If you do,he promises to answer.
Nothing can stop the King.

Well,one thing......

It always has stopped him

Unbelief.

I know for a fact healing is for me and you. It is impossible to miss that.

Once we know his will,we go after it TENACIOUSLY. We dont stop,until we lay hold of our promised blessing.

Gods will is for us to walk free of the curse. Poverty and sickness are curses.

In going after what is ours,we find out the root of the infirmity. He shows us the root.
When you see that sickness leave due to the verses that you apply against it,those verses become so different.
IT IS LIKE YOU OWN THEM. they now BELONG to you.
For me,i see exactly 180 degree opposite of the stand you take. I dont BASE God in my eyesight.
I base Him in the word.

I say Devil,what if his word is true.
What if mat 18;18 is true?
Mat 18;19?

I have settled it. Healing is for everyone.

Now I have a starting place.

It is ONLY a starting place.

Dear God what an awesome starting place.

Now we can kill some Giants.
They WILL go down EVERY SINGLE TIME.
NO EXCEPTIONS.
THEY FALL LIKE ALL THE OTHERS.
NO MERCY
DECAPITATE EVERY ONE OF THEM.

When that fully gets on you
When that fully gets on you
When that fully gets on you,

You will tell others " be careful where you step,there are decapitaded demons laying everywhere"

Then you realize the next thing.
We havent even scratched the surface of the power and anointing God has laid up for us his remnant.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
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But Sir, if I believed in something why would I need to ask a hypothetical question?

And if I actually believed that, then you mean to tell me that you think you are so big and powerful to get me to "twist out of them"? Sir instead of browbeating people into agreeing with you, go and chat with others who share your opinions.

There are persons who have testified that they have done exactly as the hypothetical question i asked, and they received the things or blessings they claimed. If I want to discuss the matter to ask everyone there take on it, then I can. All you need to do, is state what you believe about the topic and allow others to do the same. Even if there be any difference of opinions, that's cool, I want to hear everyone's opinion on the matter so I can increase in knowledge and form a proper opinion myself.

I am not a bible scholar, I want to hear what people have to say. Is it a sin to ask a question?

If I had started the thread preaching that you all should claim your cars, and houses and healings then I could understand you having an issue with that.

But I only asked a question, I did not mean for it to be taken as my personal feelings on the matter.

I would also advise you and others not to thrash those who make claims of extraordinary things God did for them. How can we be sure those people are not speaking truthfully?

Anyway I'm done. I will not respond to anymore browbeating.
I encourage you to stay in faith.
Keep believing the wog.
It is eternal. Timeless. His promise and testimony to us.

Be free. Protect the anointing on you. It is your most precious gift.
For evry minute on a forum,spend 10 in his presence.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
113
Well, your example with Sickness to compare it with Sin is not Funktion. Your may have Sickness which you can identyfy through the symptoms and also you can try to resist in takeing medicine ore food which fight against this deseases. But in the most cases, special with cancer, you will see the Symptomes when the stage of Sickness is very far in progress.
Against some deseases you cant do anything!

The Main reason why Jesus healed you find in John 20, 29-30.
And I suppose that all which he healed finally dies because of any diseases ore Sickness of any Organs.
Even those he called back from the death later dies.
If his main goal was to heal. The result was very temporary.
Then nutrition is equally futile.
Your just going to get hungry again,and your body will regress till it is replenished.
So nutrition must be out of Gods will
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
1,221
784
113
Texas
Yes, the power over life and death is in the tongue. The things you speak become your disposition and your disposition becomes who you are. So if you speak hope, love, faith into your life and into the life of others then this will be your life. If you speak complaint, malcontent, dissatisfaction, this will be come you.
But as far as name it claim it this car that house no. You will become frustrated.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
113
Yes, and God is still doing them.
What I recognize is, that God is Working much more with Miracles, when the Gospel is preached to nonbelievers und in Missionareas.

But this indicates not, that all christians will live and Stay in health condition.
Too general.
But you are right,all DEFINATELY will not be healed.
Some are easy,some have roadblocks.
If the raodblocks are not removed,it is GUARANTEED the healing WILL NOT come.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
113
Yes, the power over life and death is in the tongue. The things you speak become your disposition and your disposition becomes who you are. So if you speak hope, love, faith into your life and into the life of others then this will be your life. If you speak complaint, malcontent, dissatisfaction, this will be come you.
But as far as name it claim it this car that house no. You will become frustrated.
God can show the believer anything that they should lay hold of.
A car is only one of many.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,646
659
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preacher4truth said:
"Utter nonsense."
Ironically, you masterfully prove my point.


Funny
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,294
424
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Then nutrition is equally futile.
Your just going to get hungry again,and your body will regress till it is replenished.
So nutrition must be out of Gods will
This is the result if you try to compare what you cant compare:)
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,569
3,160
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Don't let that get you down. People may judge at times but God is not judgemental. God loves you and you are a woman of God. ❤
Thanks Cherie, for your encouraging words.

this happened when I was 20 yrs old....a little water has passed under the bridge since then ;)

some people who claim to be Christians seem to have an anti Christian spirit about them and that holds true today also...sadly
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,294
424
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Too general.
But you are right,all DEFINATELY will not be healed.
Some are easy,some have roadblocks.
If the raodblocks are not removed,it is GUARANTEED the healing WILL NOT come.
So hopefully you never will be sick.
And when you enter heaven you can ask Paul und many others why they didnt removed their roadblocks.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,569
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"Angela53510, post: 3846895, member: 76369"]Here's a reason I don't believe she has lost her Word Faith beliefs. She has been contacted many times, by different Christian organizations, to see if she refutes the heretical things she said in the 1990's. She will not talk to anyone. If I had believed something wrong, and found the truth I would be telling the world about it, and writing about it, just as she did with her former bad doctrines. But, she says nothing? Why? Because I don't think she has changed her doctrines on anything. Here is a link to things she has said. I don't agree with a few things CARM says, but basically it is right about doctrine.

https://carm.org/joyce-meyer

well I just love the way they say they are not going to focus on her finances AFTER doing that exact thing :sneaky: anyway, moving right along

if she still taught or I heard her say the things they say she teaches, I would. move right along that is. I checked for dates and found 1993. want to know what I was doing, thinking and believing in '93? not doing them now, thank God.

almost 30 years ago. they really had to dig that up...listen, I'm not trying to be a smart donkey here, I think you know what I think of the actual WOF 'gospel' we are on the same page.

I totally agree with this though:

Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: "I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time."

in Christ we are no longer sinners and if a person goes around saying they are, that is how they think of themselves. frankly, I have enough sins done to make me go live in a cave...hurting others, disappoint in myself, disappoint others etc etc, now am I going to dwell on those things or am I going to say what scripture itself says about me? this, would be part of what I mean when I say people need to talk, discuss and believe...BELIEVE...what scripture states.

when I see folks in this forum writing they are a sinner, I CRINGE! you WERE a sinner people. WERE. Paul starts off almost ALL of his letters to the different churches calling them SAINTS. not Dear sinners saved by grace...

do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I Corinthians 6

CARM needs to recant. (I don't agree with all they say either, same with Got Questions. Meyer NEVER says we no longer sin; in fact she talks about sin regularly.

about revelation here: I get revelation knowledge and so do you. in fact anyone who studies the word gets revelation knowledge because our spirits are receiving a better understanding as we study by God's Spirit...that is how I understand it and I have no reason to think otherwise having watched her for the last 3 years or so and I don't mean every day...in the case of how she meant in this quote from almost 30 years ago, I don't know what happened when Jesus died....but I sure would not go around stating what she stated...it is not in scripture.

when you travel in circles with the WOF folks, you begin to talk like they do and believe as do they...I would think. but again, that was years ago in her case and she does talk about her growth in Christ and how she has changed. I think the woman is real.

But, she sort of recanted. Here is a less than one month article from CARM. If she goes a few steps farther, I will recant what I have said!

https://carm.org/joyce-meyer-prosperity-faith-teaching-got-out-of-balance

well that says it all IMO. I don't think she is quite the same person she was 30 or so years back. she does not preach as she did at all from what I can tell

I have a hard time believing a preacher/teacher who preached such unbiblical stuff. Even if she says other good, helpful things, she has rather tainted herself. So, we will see where she goes. Time will tell.

we are all tainted. if we all confessed sins of the past or bad beliefs, none of us could stand that test. but yes, time tells all and reveals all. honestly, Christianity is something of a mine field and you really do not appreciate how true that is until you get out into the world and try to follow whatever calling you believe God has placed on your life

God has an awful lot of patience with every one of us. If Meyer was still preaching the things listed, the '93 vintage collection, I would turn her off.

but thanks for the research....there are even more negative things about her out there...plenty!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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659
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So hopefully you never will be sick.
And when you enter heaven you can ask Paul und many others why they didnt removed their roadblocks.
For every verse you come up with supporting your position there are 10 against it