Can Salvation be lost??

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, the very fact your still arguing against grammar rules of Greek and English, only shows how far you are willing to go not to be wrong about anything. You reveal alot about yourself, I bet your never wrong in anything.

Your the one who is arguing. English is not a factor in acts 2, it was not written in english, the english text is just an interpretation.

I am sorry you dont believe in collective nouns, you need to study English and Greek, that's not an insult.

I am sorry to insult you. The truth hurts. I can't help it it insults you.

Your whole argument for another non mentioned 2nd group of people was soley based on the tenses of the words, repent (sing.) and be baptized (plural). This you said PROVED their was 2 groups of people.

Wrong, so wrong. You can't even get this right. but yet again twist what it is I am saying because you cant comprehend it.

My whole argiment is the fact that the group of people were separated by person (2nd and 3rd person) which proves that they were separated.

A second person and third person word of any type are not related. It does not matter about the tense. The tense of the words just ADD to the proof of what I have said. But even if Peter used 2nd person plural and 3rd person plural (using the same tense) he still would be talking to two groups of people. even though they have the same tense.

YOU coveintly overlook the collective noun "AND EACH OF YOU" which is sing, but describes a plurailty, like a "TEAM"

1. The words (each of you" is a translation, it is not in the greek. it is also written in a particular person, which means the verb has to match in person to the type of word it is. The word with matches is is remission of sin, and baptism, Which means:

1. Since repent is of another "person" it is not a part of the subject or the group of people being spoken to.
2. You, baptize and remmision are all spoken 3rd person.

You evidently need to restudy language

2nd person is a term used to direct a conversation to an induvidual or group of people "you do this)

3rd person is a term used to direct a conversation to other induviduals (he she they)

In talking to a group of people. Peter told everyone to repent, as he used the second person pronoun.

In speaking about baptizing, he changed the pronoun to 3rd person. meaning he is directing this command to a different group of people (them) Since "them" is the proper 3rd person pronoun, and "you" is a second person pronoun, We see the the sentence is mistranslated. And should be translated,


"let all of you (2nd person plural) repent, (2nd person plural) and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (2nd person plural) and Let them(actually it should be he or she since it is singular) (3rd person singular)(it is assumed this is them who have repented) be baptized (3rd person singular) in the name of the Lord for the (because they have received) remission of sin. (3rd person singular)

Now we can see the trouble the interpretors might have had interpreting the passage, It would sound odd saying everyone of you repent, and let him or her be baptized. So they continued by using improperly the second person pronoun you, And they could not use the plural word. so they did not us the word "they or them"

REPENT FOLLOWS NOUN - "peter said unto THEM" them is plural - so in the greek, repent is plural

Yes it is plural. Which I have stated 100 times.

BE Baptized follows COLLECTIVE NOUN "each of you be bap..." SINGULAR so baptized, is SING or vise versa

baptize is a 3rd person noun. Where do you get this collective crap? It was not written in english. And it does not match the personal form of the word you or repent. Thus they can not be mixed as speaking to all the same people. And finally, the word "you" is second person" which is a mistranslation of the 3rd person pronoun.

So it's no different from saying in English - the players said, "coach, what shall we do now"?

and coach replied unto them

(plural), "drink (plural) and let each of you(Sing) be refreshed (sing)".........Get it?

Sounds good on paper. but does not match the way 2 peter is written.

In your example., all the pronouns would have been second person. The fact that one was singular and one was plural does not matter one iota.

A better example would be a group of people at a job fair all looking for the same job.

The person who is recruiting workers says:

Let everyone of you get a drug test (speaking to the whole group) and you will be considered for the job.(all 2nd person plural words)

and Let (he or she) fill out an application, because they have passed the test.

the 2nd person group is directed to everyone there

the 3rd person group is directed only to those who
1. Chose to have a drug test (not all of them would, some would know they would fail)
2. have passed the drug test.

also we see the problem with the english language, How do you properly use a 3rd person singular pronoun to say what you are saying, so what would he say? He would probably say you (a second person pronoun) and could easily be misinterpreted to mean he was talking to the whole group, when in fact he was not.

Wow, are you seriously going to keep arguing this like your right, anyone honest would have already looked into this and said, "oh I guess I missed that" and stopped using that.

You should direct this question to yourself. because your the one who needs to ask yourself this question.

You have not proven me wrong yet. Or even come close to giving me any reason to change my viewpoint. All you have done is make assumptions based on your belief, and illfated arguments which do nothing to support your cause.

This shows you are not concerned with truth, if you were you stop arguing 1+1 = 3, and define 1.

Again. You need to ask yourself. A 2nd person pronoun or word can NEVER be mixed with a 3rd person subject or verb. In any language. Your trying to mix them, and in doing so destroying the laws of language.

Same here, this is the rules of grammar, this is HOW THE GREEK IS WRITTEN look into it, stop looking foolish arguing against it, it's not like I invented Greek, It doesn't make me right or wrong, its the way its' written dude. wow.

I have looked into it. I have shown you examples. I have even used proper defenitions. Because you think I am basing my facts on tense of verbs and nouns (plural or singular) you have missed the point completely. either that, or you are so bent on proving me wrong, You see it, but you refuse to acknowledge it/

It's all self explanatory, your the one needing to add people where there is no mention of other people, your the one needing to argue against the Greek rules of grammar and the English.

In order to believe your false doctrine, do you know how far one must stretch the meaning of words, the context, and the imagination? Nothing you teach is self explanatory, you lean toward Gnosticism, you must have special or secrete knowledge, because it's definitively not found in scripture.

lol. I was like you once., I was so sure I was right, and everyone else was wrong. How could the pastors I grew up trusting teach me wrong? they are right and everyone else is wrong, even when the proof is there for all to see.

I came out from under that hard hearted self centered attitude. I pray you do also. before it is too late.

 

[feedm3]

before I take the time your making me take to show how ridiculous this is, I want to point out what your doing is obvious.

1. Your little numbering system does not make it appear as if you have a bunch of points that prove anything as I will show you just number things that prove nothing.

2. You pretending every time their is false teachers mentioned, those are who are being written. That is too funny. Paul did not write the false teachers themselves neither did James write to unbelievers. That is a pathetic attempt to deceive.

3. Those who disobeyed the gospel, did it after being saved, as I will prove, you ask "can one be saved who has not obeyed the gospel"? Proving your pretending to change the people in the letters.

4. Your dishonest and only concerned about what others think, not about truth, I will prove it.

well you just failed for the following reasons, and again it is because you are not reading, or taking scripture as a whole.

Okay lets look at these reasons I failed:

1. Chapter 1. there are people AMONG them who are teaching a false gospel.

Why is this the number 1 reason I failed? Yes there were false teachers among them, so this means that's who is being written the false teachers? NOPE do you just number anything?

2. Again in john. they left us, BUT THEY WERE never of us.. and then telling them, "if you are born of God" meaning even some of them might not be saved.

Yup, they did leave them, came from them, nothign to do with the Gal church. So #2 really is pointless in this discussion, here are 1 and 2 that makes no sense.

3. james spoke of people in the church (he even called them You) who had no faith, but were mere believers. If one has no faith, they are NOT SAVED.

Really, passage? And what makes you think that if James mentions to the Christians what real faith is and what dead faith is, then they he was only writing those with dead faith? He is WARNING ALL CHRISTIANS NOT TO LIVE IN SUCH A WAY, THE LETTER WAS WRITTEN TO CHRISTIANS JUST AS GAL,ROM,HEB cmon man, this is a waste of time.

You obvisouly have no real argument here, you put your foot in your mouth, and your too prideful to admit when your wrong, so now your will attempt to appear to be right.

4. Paul in romans 8, spoke of people he was talking to in the church of rome, when he said,

" 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 IF Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness"

Meaning that some who Paul wrote to did not have the spirit, and since this is true, they do not belong to God (they are not saved) then told them to search themselves, IF Christ is in you (maybe he is maybe he is not), proving some of them might not be saved, Yet he adressed ALL of the people in the church.
5. We have seen much scriptural proof. Now lets see common sense proof, Lets say your churhc has 1000 members, can you prove ALL of them are saved? are all of them born of God? you could never say that, nor could I. But if I wrote a letter to your church, I WOULD BE ADDRESSING THE SAVED AS WELL AS THE UNSAVED, whoever claims to be a part of your church.
6. Yes, a church is not a building, It is an ekklesia (an assembly or gathering) and NOT EVERYONE who assembles together is saved. I think I have proved this quite well. But I am sure you will ignore all the proof. This is different from the true "body of christ" in which all are saved.

Dude this is the.....nevermind. Paul wrote the church and warned them as well to continue in the spirirt. Meaning all of them in Rome have the ability to reject the Spirit and return to the flesh. Yet you cant see these warning with your osas glasses blocking every message of scripture.

Not so. If I joined an assembly which could make me free, or heard words which could set me free. then soon after departed from that assembly, or discounted those words. I would have been "soon removed" from something whihc could have made me free. Its only your common sense which would think it must mean we actually recieved the power which was offered me, then left it, because you do not want to see what is really happening.

Nope, thats some assembly your talking about. This is about a letter written to the church of our Lord, not some assembly. He said they were "removed" meaning they were once there. You cannot be removed from where you have not been no matter how hard you wish it could mean this, it cannot. its just the words the HS chose to use, you just need to change them.

notes.

1. They were removed from HIM who called you to the grace of Christ. it says they were called to, it does not say they received it. so saying they had received anything is an assumption which is not proven!

I can assume this because:
1. they were part of the churches of Galatia - 1:2
2. because they had the Spirit.
3. because they never changes in the book, they were saved, I am sorry you want this to mean what it does not say.

2. who was it who were calling them to a different gospel? were these not jews who were AMONG them, who were with them, and a part of them who were tryiogn to add works of the law (namely circumcision) to the gospel of grace?

Does it matter? They were Judizing teachers. IT does say if they were church members, or outside brethren (jewish) or what, never is the letter addressed to them, but them they are deceiving.
SO what? You prove nothing by saying this. Paul did not write the false teachers, he wrote the church. Bottom line cant get around that, no matter how much you ask your hypothetical questions, I will believe the text not you.notes.

1. The did not obey the truth, what is the truth? is it not the one Gospel paul said is right, and NOT the others which paul claimed were other gospels?

It was the truth the Paul taught them. they were "bewitched" into believing they did not have to obey the truth, meaning at first they did believe this, and were obeying it.

Lol, this really must be doosy for you since you also believe we don't have to obey God to be saved - lol This is going to get interesting. Not for me though, I just accept scripture and have no problems.

2. Paul asked them a question. did you recieve the spirit by the works of the law, or faith? hod do you think you recieved the spirit, you who call yourselves saved?

Another non nonsensical question that does not prove your point, just gets you around answering the issue at hand.

DID they receive the Spirit or not???? Simple question can you give a straight answer?????

3. Some of them might have been saved and been tempted to return to law, Paul is warning them not to leave, for in doing so they will leave Gods blessings, and why would they want to do this (this is not saying they would lose salvation)

He we go again, now another group added, some who were only tempted. Lets see how many people EG needs to be written in order to understand Gal with his false doctine.:

1. the saved.
2. the unsaved.
3. the false teachers.
4. those tempted to return to the law

So their are all these different groups being addressed in one letter, yet Paul never mentions which one he's talking to, he just slips in and out of saying "ye" "they" and never specifies who hes speaking of .lololololo

this is ridiculous, he was writing the church, the saved, in this letter to the saved, he addresses the consequences of their departure from truth. Plain and simple. Stop it now my side is hurting from laughing.

4. Some of them might have THOUGHT they were saved, and were now trying to "perfect their salvation by doing what it is they truely trusted in the first place, the law.

"some of them might", and "maybe" and "probably" this group....no thanks, keep your uncertainties I will just stick with what the Bible says, it does not offend me like it does you, to the point having to invent things like this.

This happens all the time, when people come out of legalistic churches because they find grace, but do not stay long, because thier true faith is in their works, Not in the work of Christ, this is NOT SOMETHING NEW.

Dont compare a letter written to the Lord's church to your bizare view today of what a church is. Just keep it in scripture, you keep trying to make points by your "assemblies" and experiences, this is not a testimonial, BCV<BCV<BCV that's all we need.

Question. Can someone be saved who have not obeyed the Gospel?

Nope, is Gal concerning those who have NEVER obeyed the gospel? NOPE again, Straw man is back huh?

Gal say they were bewitched, you cited it below, so what does this tell us? That they were tricked into beoieve they did not have to obey the truth (like you have been tricked as well) so what? This shows even after we obey the truth, we can still fall from grace by accepting false doctrine like yours. Yet you will never see this until you take of your "im always right" glasses.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,

good passage read it, listen to it, keep it in context.

no proof all of them did, it is just your assumption they did. I do not base my doctrines on assumptions.

No you base it on what it, hypothetical, assumptions because your willfully ignorant. I know your not stupid, you do this on purpose, because like the Greek in acts 2, that sealed it for me. Your just dishonest.

Wow. Where is your humility?

right there with yours.

Again, where is your humility? You have not proven anything. other than you make many assumptions with no proof. and ignore many aspects of scripture and common sense which would show your error.

It is not prideful to say proven, not in debating, in which we are doing.

Now I have a question for you.

Paul said these people were FOOLS. why? they were trying to take which God gave them in the spirit, and doing what? trying to PERFECT IT WITH WORKS. so I ask you. Why are you yourself trying to PERFECT what God wants to give you by faith in his word and his gospel with works? for what you are doing is exactly the people of the galation church was being warned of.

do you understand what paul was saying here?

Straw man, "im perfect" never came out of my mouth, nor have I ever implied it. Again this shows you cant deal with the real argument, i am not wasting my time tearing down the straw men you build up, not this time.

 

[feedm3]

[/size]Your the one who is arguing. English is not a factor in acts 2, it was not written in english, the english text is just an interpretation.

Dude, why do you think I am showing greek, and course English is factor, we need the correct translation, that appleis with the rules of eglish and greek grammer.

I am sorry to insult you. The truth hurts. I can't help it it insults you.

You sound like an angry defeated child in denial. What hurts? What truth? Show me.

Wrong, so wrong. You can't even get this right. but yet again twist what it is I am saying because you cant comprehend it.

My whole argiment is the fact that the group of people were separated by person (2nd and 3rd person) which proves that they were separated.

Well then great that is even easier to show why your wrong.

So now your saying sing and plural have nothing to do with it, only 2nd and 3rd person? Correct?

BTW it's 2nd SING and 3rd Plural, if your arguments is nto that than what is it?

A second person and third person word of any type are not related. It does not matter about the tense. The tense of the words just ADD to the proof of what I have said. But even if Peter used 2nd person plural and 3rd person plural (using the same tense) he still would be talking to two groups of people. even though they have the same tense.

Wrong, he used 2nd plural (repent) and 3rd sing (baptized). There is a reason for this, I have shown you and time again, yet you still act as if you cant understand.

repent follow "them" - both 2nd plural

baptized follows "each of them" both 3rd sing.

the collective noun "each of them" is singlar - get it now.

I bet you dont even understand the differneces in 123, sing and 123 plural, you just try adn act as if you understand greek. You should have gotten this by now, its not hard.

Basic lesson 1.
Greek verb endings always follow the subject. If subject is 1 person plural then verb will be 1 person plural.

Two terms descibing one subjectin Acts 2:38

THEM AND EACH OF THEM - GET IT???????

"EACH OF THEM" 3RD SING

1. I SAY - O
2. YOU SAY - EIS
3. HE/SHE/IT SAYS - EIA


PLURAL THEM

1. WE SAY
2. YOU SAY - 2ND PLURAL - YOU REPENT, YOU BE BAPTIZED - YOU 2ND PLURAL NOT A SND GROUP LOL
3 THEY SAY


PLEASE REVIEW THIS AND LOOK AT THE COLLECTIVE NOUN, AND THE VERBS AND STOP MAKING THIS ARGUMENT IT IS DEFEATED. YOU I BET THE GUYS YOU READ WHO MADE THIS ARGUMENT STOPPED AFTER THE COLLECTIVE NOUN WAS CLEAR -- YOU THE ONLY ONE TRYING TO DENY THE GREEK RULES

 

[eternally-gratefull]

before I take the time your making me take to show how ridiculous this is, I want to point out what your doing is obvious.

1. Your little numbering system does not make it appear as if you have a bunch of points that prove anything as I will show you just number things that prove nothing.

2. You pretending every time their is false teachers mentioned, those are who are being written. That is too funny. Paul did not write the false teachers themselves neither did James write to unbelievers. That is a pathetic attempt to deceive.

we can stop right here.

1. James said, YOU show me your faith without your works, And I will show you my faith wiht my works.

so your gonna tell he he wrote to saved people>> (rolls eyes)

2. paul wrote to people in romans 8. he said:

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

And you claim he was not telling them they could be there and NOT be saved. Tell us, if the spirit of God is not in you, are you saved? I guess you think they are. this alone should tell everyone to depart from your teaching!

Paul answers this question himself:

But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

So this proves without a doubt paul was talkin TO people who were probably not saved, along wiht people where were saved.

If we can't get this basic fact straight. why bother going forward?

 

[feedm3]

EG NO MATTER WHERE I AM YOU SEEM TO ALWAYS LOVE TO ARGUE ME BECAUSE YOUR MAD YOU CANT EVER PROVE ANYTNING.

WHY DONT YOU JUST DEBATE ME?

I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO A PUBLIC DEBATE...

WE DO IT ALREADY ANYWAY MIGHT AS WELL DO IT IN PERSON...RIGHT?


1. I COME TO YOU
2. I HANDLE RECORDING
3. I FIND A CONGREGATION TO HOST

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW UP, I AM DOING EVERTHING, IT COULD NOT BE MORE EAISER.......WHAT DO YOU SAY???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG NO MATTER WHERE I AM YOU SEEM TO ALWAYS LOVE TO ARGUE ME BECAUSE YOUR MAD YOU CANT EVER PROVE ANYTNING.

WHY DONT YOU JUST DEBATE ME?

I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO A PUBLIC DEBATE...

WE DO IT ALREADY ANYWAY MIGHT AS WELL DO IT IN PERSON...RIGHT?


1. I COME TO YOU
2. I HANDLE RECORDING
3. I FIND A CONGREGATION TO HOST

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW UP, I AM DOING EVERTHING, IT COULD NOT BE MORE EAISER.......WHAT DO YOU SAY???

1. I am not arguing you. I am forcing you to answer questions and confronting you with things you are saying (like the fact that you are wrong when you say all letters where written to only saved people, which I have proved they are NOT.)
2. I am not arguing you. I am showing you how I can not take what you says as truth, and giving the reasons why. It is called discussing or debating facts
3. I am not trying to convince you. You are set in your ways, nothing will change your mind. I am doing it for the benefit of people who might read your stuff, and give them another opinion on which they can chose to make up their mind. If only one person changes there mind, then it was well worth it.

public debates are a shamble they never help anyone, nore are they usefull.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we can stop right here.

1. James said, YOU show me your faith without your works, And I will show you my faith wiht my works.

so your gonna tell he he wrote to saved people>> (rolls eyes)

2. paul wrote to people in romans 8. he said:

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.[/size]

And you claim he was not telling them they could be there and NOT be saved. Tell us, if the spirit of God is not in you, are you saved? I guess you think they are. this alone should tell everyone to depart from your teaching!

Paul answers this question himself:

But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

So this proves without a doubt paul was talkin TO people who were probably not saved, along wiht people where were saved.

If we can't get this basic fact straight. why bother going forward?

to add to this to make it clear to anyone who might be reading.

1. Scripture says we are saved by faith. even those who teach legalism believe this.

so can someone be saved if they have NO FAITH? the answer would be no. so this proves james is directing a letter to those who are not saved.

2. Scripture, and paul, says if you do not have the spirit of Christ living in you. you are not Gods children. Paul said in romans 8 that there are some he directed his writing to which did not have the spirit of God. so were these people, who were in the roman church, all saved? the answer would be no.

so the question is answered. are all the letters given to all the churches only directed at saved people, and NOT unsaved people who are in the churches like someone is trying to say? The answere would be an astounding NO!

 

[feedm3]

we can stop right here.

1. James said, YOU show me your faith without your works, And I will show you my faith wiht my works.

so your gonna tell he he wrote to saved people>> (rolls eyes)

Keep rolling them becuase James is written to Christians. NOt hard to figure out. Why wont you post the verse you speaking of?

James 2:18 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Do you not serioiusly get this? "a man MAY SAY". First off, no "YOU".

2nd:
A "man may say" James is telling the Christians of one who MAY SAY etc.

So does this mean the letter was written now to the man who may say??????

Lol are you serious, why would you even bring this up? It hurts you, it proves you wrong, at least go read the context before citing passages. wow. *falls out of chair laughing*

Simple copy>paste

So good we can stop here, or stay here, please explain James again. Show me how this was not written to Christians. Show me how chapter one is NOt to Christians either, or show me when the subject (recipients) change from chapter one to two.

Show me that the man who may say is the one being written, and not used as a warning to Christians.

 

[feedm3]

1. I am not arguing you. I am forcing you to answer questions and confronting you with things you are saying (like the fact that you are wrong when you say all letters where written to only saved people, which I have proved they are NOT.)
2. I am not arguing you. I am showing you how I can not take what you says as truth, and giving the reasons why. It is called discussing or debating facts
3. I am not trying to convince you. You are set in your ways, nothing will change your mind. I am doing it for the benefit of people who might read your stuff, and give them another opinion on which they can chose to make up their mind. If only one person changes there mind, then it was well worth it.

public debates are a shamble they never help anyone, nore are they usefull.

Okay sure, If you were doing everthing above you say yoru doing, then you would have no prob. But you know you cant hide behind a computer screen in a debate, I ahve proved youwrong over and over and you know it, that's why you keep coming back for more, because you think each time you have something new, and it gets shut down, then you keep bugging me and provoking me. So either debate me or stop talking to me.

If you think this has been usful or helped anyone your in fanasty land, I doubt people are reading very close by now. So thats not why, it's becuase you know your wrong, and you cant stand being wrong, or at least you cant stand people knowing your worng. Your deceptive man. that's the truth.

 

[feedm3]

to add to this to make it clear to anyone who might be reading.

1. Scripture says we are saved by faith. even those who teach legalism believe this.

so can someone be saved if they have NO FAITH? the answer would be no. so this proves james is directing a letter to those who are not saved.

2. Scripture, and paul, says if you do not have the spirit of Christ living in you. you are not Gods children. Paul said in romans 8 that there are some he directed his writing to which did not have the spirit of God. so were these people, who were in the roman church, all saved? the answer would be no.

so the question is answered. are all the letters given to all the churches only directed at saved people, and NOT unsaved people who are in the churches like someone is trying to say? The answere would be an astounding NO!

Dont add anthing, You just proved you have no idea who James is even writing, so fix that first.

 

[Red33]

What saves us? Its our faith in Jesus Christ and as long as we continue in that faith then we are indeed saved no matter what.

If someone is drowning and a rescue boat comes by and pulls them aboard then they are indeed saved as long as they continue in the rescue boat, but if they jump back out into the water before they reach land, then they are still gonna drown. If we jump back in the water so to speak before we reach heaven, you are still gonna drown.

This is what I believe, I'm not trying to force anyone else to believe it.

You are comparing God's great and immutable salvation to something that is temporal, natural and humanistic, when it is eternal, supernatural and divine in origin and nature. You, as does so many others that think as you do, are looking at God's salvation and the cross from human view point instead of divine viewpoint. When the sinner is cleansed and justified through mercy by the blood of Christ it is from God's divine viewpoint that these things take place. When we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb we are not our own anymore, for we have been bought with a price. We are God's and we belong to Him and He will take care of us and preserve us and be very patient and longsuffering with us if we walk away and backslide from the faith.

God has all power and is everywhere present and with lovingkindness He will draw us and win us back unto Himself and raise us up. The righteous, those who have been imputed with the righteousness of God when they first believed upon the Son, will never be forsaken, even if they forsake the Lord through unbelief. Many believers are living moral lives and abstaining from sin but are backslidden from a sound faith and from the promises of God and live in unbelief concerning those promises. I bet lots of believes don't even think of that! Some believers have this idea that just because they are being blessed that they must be living right. Well, Paul was in the will of God and was always being delivered unto death so that Christ could be manifest in His mortal body. I wonder how many believers can identify with that kind of spiritual walk or even want it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Keep rolling them becuase James is written to Christians. NOt hard to figure out. Why wont you post the verse you speaking of?

James 2:18 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Do you not serioiusly get this? "a man MAY SAY". First off, no "YOU".

2nd:
A "man may say" James is telling the Christians of one who MAY SAY etc.

So does this mean the letter was written now to the man who may say??????

Lol are you serious, why would you even bring this up? It hurts you, it proves you wrong, at least go read the context before citing passages. wow. *falls out of chair laughing*

Simple copy>paste

So good we can stop here, or stay here, please explain James again. Show me how this was not written to Christians. Show me how chapter one is NOt to Christians either, or show me when the subject (recipients) change from chapter one to two.

Show me that the man who may say is the one being written, and not used as a warning to Christians.

Lets prove this wrong.

The part you posted was james making an example of what someone might say (this someone could be someone he was speaking to in the letter.)

yet he finishes with a warning, and a severe warning I might add, which he gave to everyone he wrote to!

19 You believe that [r] God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 2

1. If you believe you do well. Meaning your on you way, But belief is not faith, even demons believe. What good does it do them?

2. Are you, (the people who just have mere belief, but have not yet come to true faith, which WILL produce works) willing to recognize, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? why? a faith WILL PRODUCE WORKS. a claimed faith, which is just mere belief WILL NOT PRODUCE WORKS. thus a persons claimed faith is uselss.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dont add anthing, You just proved you have no idea who James is even writing, so fix that first.

I just proved exactly who he is writing to. he is writing to licentious people, who have a mere belief, but have zero faith, proven by the fact they have no works.

Just to add. I would agree with you that they are not saved, and their claim of OSAS would be in error. because they have never been saved to begin with.

So I can add anytime I want.

and why did you not discuss romans 8? is it because you KNOW I am right there?

 

[feedm3]

Lets prove this wrong.

The part you posted was james making an example of what someone might say (this someone could be someone he was speaking to in the letter.)

yet he finishes with a warning, and a severe warning I might add, which he gave to everyone he wrote to!

19 You believe that [r] God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 2

1. If you believe you do well. Meaning your on you way, But belief is not faith, even demons believe. What good does it do them?

2. Are you, (the people who just have mere belief, but have not yet come to true faith, which WILL produce works) willing to recognize, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? why? a faith WILL PRODUCE WORKS. a claimed faith, which is just mere belief WILL NOT PRODUCE WORKS. thus a persons claimed faith is uselss.

Lol man, this is the very next verse from 18, where he starts "a man may say". It's still in that context, he is making a point of what to say to those who say they have faith and no works.

Again this does not mean the letter was written to the man who may say....are you serious. You can prove anything can you? I thought you were Mr. context, yet you hate context. It proves you wrong.

A man may say.....and James will say show me your faith.....You belive their is one God.....Get it, this is what we are to say, as James does to the man who may say. The letter is still written to the 12 tribes of Isreal scattered abroad, not to the man who may say - lol READ!

 

[feedm3]

I just proved exactly who he is writing to. he is writing to licentious people, who have a mere belief, but have zero faith, proven by the fact they have no works.

Just to add. I would agree with you that they are not saved, and their claim of OSAS would be in error. because they have never been saved to begin with.

So I can add anytime I want.

and why did you not discuss romans 8? is it because you KNOW I am right there?

No you didnt, you proved James siad to the man who may say etc. That's it, vesres 18 and 19 are a point to one who MAY SAY. Try again, your starting scare me alittle, can you really not get this?

James is writting Christians...period.

Lol You have Paul warning the false teachers of false teachers in Gal. Now James writing a letter to a hypothetical man about a hypothetical man. Wow wow wow

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol man, this is the very next verse from 18, where he starts "a man may say". It's still in that context, he is making a point of what to say to those who say they have faith and no works.

Again this does not mean the letter was written to the man who may say....are you serious. You can prove anything can you? I thought you were Mr. context, yet you hate context. It proves you wrong.

A man may say.....and James will say show me your faith.....You belive their is one God.....Get it, this is what we are to say, as James does to the man who may say. The letter is still written to the 12 tribes of Isreal scattered abroad, not to the man who may say - lol READ!

I did read, have you NEVER been to a teaching or discussion where the person speaking may use an example of someone doing wrong (a person may do this) and then say, IF YOU DO THIS, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOU ARE JUST AS WRONG AS THEY ARE?

i hear it all the time, in fact I use this type of examples in my teachings all the time, it gets people to think. then to look at their own hearts.

You can;t see it, because you do not want to. that is not on me, that is on you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No you didnt, you proved James siad to the man who may say etc. That's it, vesres 18 and 19 are a point to one who MAY SAY. Try again, your starting scare me alittle, can you really not get this?

James is writting Christians...period.

Lol You have Paul warning the false teachers of false teachers in Gal. Now James writing a letter to a hypothetical man about a hypothetical man. Wow wow wow

and you still refuse to look at romans 8. And john who makes clear they are talking to people who were not saved. wow wow wow,

silence speaks louder then words my friend. Everyone in the world sees your deception here.

you base to books on your preconcieved ideas, and refuse to look at the one which DOES prove you wrong, and you have no out. so you ignore it.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

You are comparing God's great and immutable salvation to something that is temporal, natural and humanistic, when it is eternal, supernatural and divine in origin and nature. You, as does so many others that think as you do, are looking at God's salvation and the cross from human view point instead of divine viewpoint. When the sinner is cleansed and justified through mercy by the blood of Christ it is from God's divine viewpoint that these things take place. When we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb we are not our own anymore, for we have been bought with a price. We are God's and we belong to Him and He will take care of us and preserve us and be very patient and longsuffering with us if we walk away and backslide from the faith.

I completely agree, I just dont agree that people always come back

God has all power and is everywhere present and with lovingkindness He will draw us and win us back unto Himself and raise us up. The righteous, those who have been imputed with the righteousness of God when they first believed upon the Son, will never be forsaken, even if they forsake the Lord through unbelief. Many believers are living moral lives and abstaining from sin but are backslidden from a sound faith and from the promises of God and live in unbelief concerning those promises. I bet lots of believes don't even think of that! Some believers have this idea that just because they are being blessed that they must be living right. Well, Paul was in the will of God and was always being delivered unto death so that Christ could be manifest in His mortal body. I wonder how many believers can identify with that kind of spiritual walk or even want it!

I cant accept this because...

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[eternally-gratefull]

concerning 1 john..

24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

If what you heard from the beginning abides in you. Meaning it may not abide in them at all. If it has never abided in them, they were never saved.

Antichrist. one who denys Christ. They left, but they left not because they lost salvation, but because they NEVER HAD IT/ they did not give their gift back. they NEVER POSSESSED THE GIFT>

 

[feedm3]

I did read, have you NEVER been to a teaching or discussion where the person speaking may use an example of someone doing wrong (a person may do this) and then say, IF YOU DO THIS, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOU ARE JUST AS WRONG AS THEY ARE?

I have heard teaching where someone was used as an example yes. And read it, like in James and Gal.

James is using "a man may say" as an example of what many still say. The example is to the Christians hes writting. He speaking ABOUT one who MAY do this, not writting directly to him. If their was one who said this in the group, then no doubt he would have been convicted by what James said. Still this does not mean the letter was not written to Chirstians and the man serves as a warning and example of how not to think and act.

So again, this is usless, because the recieptents are mentioned, and even one who started thinking like the man who may say, still would not mean he was doomed, it would have been a letter of repentance. So what?

i hear it all the time, in fact I use this type of examples in my teachings all the time, it gets people to think. then to look at their own hearts.

You can;t see it, because you do not want to. that is not on me, that is on you.

This has nothign to do with what you were trying to prove. You have switched. From this was written TO those who were not saved, to this is an example of one that they are nto to do. I agree with that. Don't know where your going with this one.

Cant see what? This is what I am saying dude. It was written about one, and example, to Christians. Of course a non christian can read it and benifiet, yet this was to Christians. The man who may say is an example, just as Jesus warned the disciples about false teachers adn their fruit, the fruit would be a sign for them, and one saying the same thing James is saying would have been a sign for them. "All I need is faith and not works"....etc. would have reminded them of this warning.