can someone explain why do we christians say Jesus is God himself
- Thread starter Arin07
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Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come;
GLORIFY THY SON, THAT THY SON ALSO MAY GLORIFY THEE:
What is the glory Jesus is speaking of - that he will be glorified - with the father -
If we read the entire context of the chapter - Jesus is literally going through and explaining exactly what he means to be GLORIFIED “ saying “~” Father glorify thou me with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before “~”
This entire chapter is filled with details explaining exactly what Jesus means to be GLORIFIED WITH THE GLORY OF THE FATHER - this previous Glory Jesus had, it is not about him existing as the Son Of God ( as Co Equal, Co Eternal and Co Omnipresent Son Of God.
Please pay attention and do not ignore all of these explanations. Through these chapters Jesus is telling and explaining the very significance of what it means for him - to be GLORIFIED WITH THE PREVIOUS GLORY OF THE FATHER THAT HE HAD BEFORE.
the entire concept, is Jesus explaining that to be GLORIFIED WITH THE GLORY OF THE FATHER is literally when he returns back inside the father from which he EXITED / CAME OUT FROM -
When the Spirit of Jesus has returned back to exist spiritually inside the Spirit of the Father - where he exits out from - to be spiritually inside the spirit of the Father from where he exited and came out from.
While Jesus was here in earth - he was not INSIDE God in the way he was before he EXITED / CAME OUT OF GOD
He was simply a vessel / body and manifestation of God whom existed as someone whom the Spirit of God was INSIDE HIM / - -
God was INSIDE Jesus - - Jesus was not INSIDE God
As he previously was - before exiting out of the Spirit Of God.
Joh 13:31 Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
Joh 13:32 If God be glorified in him, GOD SHALL ALSO GLORIFY HIM, INSIDE HIMSELF
Joh 17:1 Jesus said……. Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
:5 glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had before
:8 For I have given unto them the WORDS which you gave me; and know that I CAME OUT from you
:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me,
:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before -
του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
Please remember – in John 8:42 - - Yahoshua says three things here, about his identity.
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT FOR FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come;
GLORIFY THY SON, THAT THY SON ALSO MAY GLORIFY THEE:
What is the glory Jesus is speaking of - that he will be glorified - with the father -
If we read the entire context of the chapter - Jesus is literally going through and explaining exactly what he means to be GLORIFIED “ saying “~” Father glorify thou me with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before “~”
This entire chapter is filled with details explaining exactly what Jesus means to be GLORIFIED WITH THE GLORY OF THE FATHER - this previous Glory Jesus had, it is not about him existing as the Son Of God ( as Co Equal, Co Eternal and Co Omnipresent Son Of God.
Please pay attention and do not ignore all of these explanations. Through these chapters Jesus is telling and explaining the very significance of what it means for him - to be GLORIFIED WITH THE PREVIOUS GLORY OF THE FATHER THAT HE HAD BEFORE.
the entire concept, is Jesus explaining that to be GLORIFIED WITH THE GLORY OF THE FATHER is literally when he returns back inside the father from which he EXITED / CAME OUT FROM -
When the Spirit of Jesus has returned back to exist spiritually inside the Spirit of the Father - where he exits out from - to be spiritually inside the spirit of the Father from where he exited and came out from.
While Jesus was here in earth - he was not INSIDE God in the way he was before he EXITED / CAME OUT OF GOD
He was simply a vessel / body and manifestation of God whom existed as someone whom the Spirit of God was INSIDE HIM / - -
God was INSIDE Jesus - - Jesus was not INSIDE God
As he previously was - before exiting out of the Spirit Of God.
Joh 13:31 Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
Joh 13:32 If God be glorified in him, GOD SHALL ALSO GLORIFY HIM, INSIDE HIMSELF
Joh 17:1 Jesus said……. Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
:5 glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had before
:8 For I have given unto them the WORDS which you gave me; and know that I CAME OUT from you
:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me,
:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before -
του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
Meaning
5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
Please remember – in John 8:42 - - Yahoshua says three things here, about his identity.
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT FOR FROM / OF - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
.
εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT -
και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM / OF - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα
I COME - αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.
:42
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
The manuscripts explain that Jesus is issued OUT - “ εκ EX / OUT “ - from the God – and that Jesus is - to return back ” in God.
I COME OUT FROM THE GOD – OUT = “ EX / εξ “ - he did not come to exist on earth as from a pre – existence of himself
This would make God a Trinity
We see the Greek word “ EX / εξ “
EX / εξ “ IN Greek - meaning = a primary preposition denoting origin ( the point whence motion or action proceeds) , From, Out Of Place, : - from... By (the means of) Of, Off ( From ), Out Among - ( From, Of ) - Out Of .
This Greek word " “ EX / εξ “ " - is used 917 total times in the manuscripts.
This is the exact word used in Heb 1:13 Sit -- ““ EX / εξ “ “ - OUT FROM " my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool……
Here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.
Joh 17:11 και And - ουκ no - ετι more - ειμι am I - εν in - τω the - κοσμω world - και and - ουτοι they - εν in - τω the - κοσμω world - εισιν are,,,,
- και and - εγω I - προς unto - σε you - ερχομαι came out of ,,,, - πατερ father - αγιε holy
- τηρησον I have kept - αυτους them - εν in - τω the - ονοματι name - σου of you - ους which - δεδωκας you have given - μοι me,,,, - ινα that - ωσιν I am - εν in - καθως as were - ημεις we
AND NO MORE AM I IN THE WORLD AND THEY IN THE WORLD ARE,, AND I UNTO YOU CAME OUT OF,, FATHER HOLY
I HAVE KEPT THEM IN THE NAME OF YOU WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN ME,, THAT I AM IN AS WERE WE
This is the explanation of Jesus when he describes himself receiving glorification from the father - THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE.
Jesus returns to exist as the Glory of God returning back inside God and he will be sent back to earth as the baptism of the Spirit Holy.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
:42
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
The manuscripts explain that Jesus is issued OUT - “ εκ EX / OUT “ - from the God – and that Jesus is - to return back ” in God.
I COME OUT FROM THE GOD – OUT = “ EX / εξ “ -
HE DID NOT COME TO EXIST ON EARTH AS FROM A PRE – EXISTENCE OF HIMSELF
This would make God a Trinity - God is not a trinity.
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
the Glory with the Father is to return to be existing INSIDE the Spirit Of God - from where he existed / CAME OUT FROM
this is not the trinity of Rome
εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT -
και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM / OF - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα
I COME - αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.
:42
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
The manuscripts explain that Jesus is issued OUT - “ εκ EX / OUT “ - from the God – and that Jesus is - to return back ” in God.
I COME OUT FROM THE GOD – OUT = “ EX / εξ “ - he did not come to exist on earth as from a pre – existence of himself
This would make God a Trinity
We see the Greek word “ EX / εξ “
EX / εξ “ IN Greek - meaning = a primary preposition denoting origin ( the point whence motion or action proceeds) , From, Out Of Place, : - from... By (the means of) Of, Off ( From ), Out Among - ( From, Of ) - Out Of .
This Greek word " “ EX / εξ “ " - is used 917 total times in the manuscripts.
This is the exact word used in Heb 1:13 Sit -- ““ EX / εξ “ “ - OUT FROM " my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool……
Here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.
Joh 17:11 και And - ουκ no - ετι more - ειμι am I - εν in - τω the - κοσμω world - και and - ουτοι they - εν in - τω the - κοσμω world - εισιν are,,,,
- και and - εγω I - προς unto - σε you - ερχομαι came out of ,,,, - πατερ father - αγιε holy
- τηρησον I have kept - αυτους them - εν in - τω the - ονοματι name - σου of you - ους which - δεδωκας you have given - μοι me,,,, - ινα that - ωσιν I am - εν in - καθως as were - ημεις we
AND NO MORE AM I IN THE WORLD AND THEY IN THE WORLD ARE,, AND I UNTO YOU CAME OUT OF,, FATHER HOLY
I HAVE KEPT THEM IN THE NAME OF YOU WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN ME,, THAT I AM IN AS WERE WE
This is the explanation of Jesus when he describes himself receiving glorification from the father - THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE.
Jesus returns to exist as the Glory of God returning back inside God and he will be sent back to earth as the baptism of the Spirit Holy.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
:42
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
The manuscripts explain that Jesus is issued OUT - “ εκ EX / OUT “ - from the God – and that Jesus is - to return back ” in God.
I COME OUT FROM THE GOD – OUT = “ EX / εξ “ -
HE DID NOT COME TO EXIST ON EARTH AS FROM A PRE – EXISTENCE OF HIMSELF
This would make God a Trinity - God is not a trinity.
I COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
the Glory with the Father is to return to be existing INSIDE the Spirit Of God - from where he existed / CAME OUT FROM
this is not the trinity of Rome
.
How do trinitarian Christians resolve these 2 passages - these are just 2 seeming contradictions that Christians who uphold the Trinity cannot answer from their translations
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a Spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1..... father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: - and - 2..... a spirit hath not flesh and bones
if the father is a spirit and a spirit has no flesh and bones - no hands, how is Jesus putting forth his spirit into the hands of another spirit. when a spirit does not have flesh and bones or hands
and
if the Father is a trinitarian spirit then this means that there are 2 separate / plural " holy spirits " - unless we do not consider the spirit of the father to be - a holy spirit.
Trinitarians can attempt to answer these questions by putting forth a Trinitarian Perspective and imploring or appealing to emotional human reasoning or personal opinions to explain what these passages mean but when using the Trinitarian Translation - trinitarians have absolutely no answers to provide.
why is the trinitarian father also not considered - a Holy Spirit ? - - are not there 2 or 3 holy spirits ?
what is God = is the trinity Godhead partly holy and partly unholy -- and 2 of the Spirits of the trinity are not holy spirits ? but only 1 single Spirits of the trinity is - a Holy Spirit - the other 2 spirits are not holy spirits ?
who is the trinitarian Jesus, is he also not considered - a Holy Spirit ? - - is the Sprit of Jesus, not a Holy Spirit ?
how is the trinitarian Jesus expecting to commit his spirit into the hands of another spirit. when a spirit does not have flesh and bones or hands - a spirit has no hands - how does this apply to the Old Testament referring to the voice, arm, hands, face
eyes - Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
where is the voice, arm, hands, face and eyes of the Father - where does the LORD smell a sweet savour and where does the LORD say something in his heart - a spirit has no heartbeat
when the scriptures say that the very sending of Jesus the Son Of God is a mystery that has been hidden since being ordained before the world - none of the princes of this world knew anything about Jesus the Son Of God.
the Old Testament Prophets and Saints of old knew absolutely nothing about the Son Of God
Col 1:26 Jesus Christ is a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Rom 16:25 Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
if Jesus is crying with a loud voice, - Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: and he is speaking symbolic and metaphorically concerning the Sprit - why pretend that the Old Testament would not also do the same
:1 many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers
:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his Son
why pretend that Jesus the Son is a literal part of the many ways and various ways that long ago the God spoke in the Old Testament. - when the scriptures declare that Jesus the Son Of God is a mystery, hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
How do trinitarian Christians resolve these 2 passages - these are just 2 seeming contradictions that Christians who uphold the Trinity cannot answer from their translations
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a Spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1..... father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: - and - 2..... a spirit hath not flesh and bones
if the father is a spirit and a spirit has no flesh and bones - no hands, how is Jesus putting forth his spirit into the hands of another spirit. when a spirit does not have flesh and bones or hands
and
if the Father is a trinitarian spirit then this means that there are 2 separate / plural " holy spirits " - unless we do not consider the spirit of the father to be - a holy spirit.
Trinitarians can attempt to answer these questions by putting forth a Trinitarian Perspective and imploring or appealing to emotional human reasoning or personal opinions to explain what these passages mean but when using the Trinitarian Translation - trinitarians have absolutely no answers to provide.
why is the trinitarian father also not considered - a Holy Spirit ? - - are not there 2 or 3 holy spirits ?
what is God = is the trinity Godhead partly holy and partly unholy -- and 2 of the Spirits of the trinity are not holy spirits ? but only 1 single Spirits of the trinity is - a Holy Spirit - the other 2 spirits are not holy spirits ?
who is the trinitarian Jesus, is he also not considered - a Holy Spirit ? - - is the Sprit of Jesus, not a Holy Spirit ?
how is the trinitarian Jesus expecting to commit his spirit into the hands of another spirit. when a spirit does not have flesh and bones or hands - a spirit has no hands - how does this apply to the Old Testament referring to the voice, arm, hands, face
eyes - Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
where is the voice, arm, hands, face and eyes of the Father - where does the LORD smell a sweet savour and where does the LORD say something in his heart - a spirit has no heartbeat
when the scriptures say that the very sending of Jesus the Son Of God is a mystery that has been hidden since being ordained before the world - none of the princes of this world knew anything about Jesus the Son Of God.
the Old Testament Prophets and Saints of old knew absolutely nothing about the Son Of God
Col 1:26 Jesus Christ is a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Rom 16:25 Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
if Jesus is crying with a loud voice, - Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit: and he is speaking symbolic and metaphorically concerning the Sprit - why pretend that the Old Testament would not also do the same
:1 many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers
:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his Son
why pretend that Jesus the Son is a literal part of the many ways and various ways that long ago the God spoke in the Old Testament. - when the scriptures declare that Jesus the Son Of God is a mystery, hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
.
Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
if God completely hid this from the eyes of the Jews, prophets and saints of old why do Trinitarian Translations feel the need to alter and change many passages of the Old Testament to insert and weave in a revealing message of the Son Of God / CHRIST - to come in the future - that was not revealed in the manuscripts.
The Roman Catholic Translations insert the Greek word " " CHRIST " 8 total times in their old Testament Translation
The Protestants and Catholic Translation both - overly exaggerate and manipulate the Translations to change, insert and add words to change the original message of the manuscripts to insert the TRINITY in the Old Testament to weave in and insert a Trinitarian ideology and reveal a trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose -
to the point that it implies that the Prophets and readers living throughout the Old Testament would have never ever missed these prophecies and revelations - Trinitarians literally go in the manuscripts of the Old Testament and in every way possible manipulate, alter and change the original message to insert and add wording to alter the original message to show the Trinity and and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose -
to the point that Old Testament prophets and readers living in Old Testament times could never missed these revelations and prophecies - they would have all known and understood and believed and expected the TRINITY in the Old Testament and looked forward to trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God
but yet, this all was a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
but yet, this all was a mystery which was kept secret since the world began
but Trinitarians do overly exaggerate and manipulate the Translations to change, insert and add words to change the original message of the Old Testament - to propagate the Trinity and and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose revealed-
and the Old Testament does prophecy and reveal the coming of the Anointed - Jews do believe in the Messiah
but why go in the manuscripts and alter the passages to change the Old Testament within the Translation to the the point that Old Testament prophets and readers living in Old Testament times could never missed these revelations and prophecies - they would have all known and understood and believed and expected the TRINITY in the Old Testament and looked forward to trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God
Trinitarians Translations change and alter the manuscripts intent and it's original message within the Old Testament - to attempt to reveal and show and UNCOVER and UNWRAP - DISCOVER and DETECT and AUGAR and insert additional intent concerning revelation, prophecy and prophecy that truly does exist concerning the Hebrew Messiah - but the manuscripts put forth a message that is a mystery, hidden
kept secret - unrevealed, unknown.
so..... meaning - - - it's not a matter of the Old Testament expounding and explaining and adding final revelation and unfolding prophecy, Trinitarians literally go back into the Old Testament and literally alter and change the the message to match up word for word exactly to conform to the New Testament
to the point that the message is no longer - a mystery - hidden - kept secret - unrevealed, unknown - from all ages and from all generations, but NOW is made manifest to his saints:
this all was a mystery which was kept secret since the world began - but Trinitarians pretend this was all revealed in the Old Testament by overly exaggerating and changing and altering the words and texts and message within the Translation -
the Old Testament believers reading the Trinitarian Translation of the Old Testament would have full knowledge, faith, expectation, of what the Manuscripts had kept as a mystery - hidden - secret - unrevealed, unknown - from all ages and from all generations.
the manuscripts do reveal the prophecy of the coming messiah - but the Translations attempt to alter their message to uncover and unwrap - discover and detect and augur and insert additional intent concerning revelation, prophecy and prophecy
to change it to a solved mystery and a revealed secret within manuscripts translations that do not reveal and solve
Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
if God completely hid this from the eyes of the Jews, prophets and saints of old why do Trinitarian Translations feel the need to alter and change many passages of the Old Testament to insert and weave in a revealing message of the Son Of God / CHRIST - to come in the future - that was not revealed in the manuscripts.
The Roman Catholic Translations insert the Greek word " " CHRIST " 8 total times in their old Testament Translation
The Protestants and Catholic Translation both - overly exaggerate and manipulate the Translations to change, insert and add words to change the original message of the manuscripts to insert the TRINITY in the Old Testament to weave in and insert a Trinitarian ideology and reveal a trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose -
to the point that it implies that the Prophets and readers living throughout the Old Testament would have never ever missed these prophecies and revelations - Trinitarians literally go in the manuscripts of the Old Testament and in every way possible manipulate, alter and change the original message to insert and add wording to alter the original message to show the Trinity and and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose -
to the point that Old Testament prophets and readers living in Old Testament times could never missed these revelations and prophecies - they would have all known and understood and believed and expected the TRINITY in the Old Testament and looked forward to trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God
but yet, this all was a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
but yet, this all was a mystery which was kept secret since the world began
but Trinitarians do overly exaggerate and manipulate the Translations to change, insert and add words to change the original message of the Old Testament - to propagate the Trinity and and the Son Of God and his prophetic future arrival and prophetic purpose revealed-
and the Old Testament does prophecy and reveal the coming of the Anointed - Jews do believe in the Messiah
but why go in the manuscripts and alter the passages to change the Old Testament within the Translation to the the point that Old Testament prophets and readers living in Old Testament times could never missed these revelations and prophecies - they would have all known and understood and believed and expected the TRINITY in the Old Testament and looked forward to trinitarian Godhead and the Son Of God
Trinitarians Translations change and alter the manuscripts intent and it's original message within the Old Testament - to attempt to reveal and show and UNCOVER and UNWRAP - DISCOVER and DETECT and AUGAR and insert additional intent concerning revelation, prophecy and prophecy that truly does exist concerning the Hebrew Messiah - but the manuscripts put forth a message that is a mystery, hidden
kept secret - unrevealed, unknown.
so..... meaning - - - it's not a matter of the Old Testament expounding and explaining and adding final revelation and unfolding prophecy, Trinitarians literally go back into the Old Testament and literally alter and change the the message to match up word for word exactly to conform to the New Testament
to the point that the message is no longer - a mystery - hidden - kept secret - unrevealed, unknown - from all ages and from all generations, but NOW is made manifest to his saints:
this all was a mystery which was kept secret since the world began - but Trinitarians pretend this was all revealed in the Old Testament by overly exaggerating and changing and altering the words and texts and message within the Translation -
the Old Testament believers reading the Trinitarian Translation of the Old Testament would have full knowledge, faith, expectation, of what the Manuscripts had kept as a mystery - hidden - secret - unrevealed, unknown - from all ages and from all generations.
the manuscripts do reveal the prophecy of the coming messiah - but the Translations attempt to alter their message to uncover and unwrap - discover and detect and augur and insert additional intent concerning revelation, prophecy and prophecy
to change it to a solved mystery and a revealed secret within manuscripts translations that do not reveal and solve
god had winked at and ignored , and turned a blind eye to those improperly worshiping the trinity / godhead in the old testament
And demanding that everyone everywhere is to suddenly repent - hurriedly hurry suddenly repent - repent for improperly worshiping the Godhead - after hiding the mystery of the Trinity Godhead = since the creation - no one knew or had knowledge about the trinity ?
But must repent for improperly worshiping the Trinity - Godhead ?
is this passage translated correctly ?
no
And demanding that everyone everywhere is to suddenly repent - hurriedly hurry suddenly repent - repent for improperly worshiping the Godhead - after hiding the mystery of the Trinity Godhead = since the creation - no one knew or had knowledge about the trinity ?
But must repent for improperly worshiping the Trinity - Godhead ?
is this passage translated correctly ?
no
amen there’s an interchangeable language used that’s evident
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name ( one name )
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ ( that’s the name ) for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( that’s the spirit )
Acts 2:38 K
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9 KJV
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”
Matthew 10:20
To the point of judgement it’s the same
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:10-12 KJV
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. …….And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”( second death )
Revelation 20:11-12, 15 KJV
they are one we now know our God by the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ the begotten son
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name ( one name )
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ ( that’s the name ) for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( that’s the spirit )
Acts 2:38 K
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9 KJV
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”
Matthew 10:20
To the point of judgement it’s the same
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:10-12 KJV
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. …….And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”( second death )
Revelation 20:11-12, 15 KJV
they are one we now know our God by the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ the begotten son
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let’s translate Act 17:29 - exactly as it is in the Greek manuscripts
:29 γενος The offspring - ουν therefore - υπαρχοντες who are, - του of - Θεου God - ουκ not - οφειλομεν should - νομιζειν regard - χρυσω gold - η or - αργυρω silver - η or - λιθω stones - χαραγματι engraved - τεχνης crafts - και and - ενθυμησεως the thoughts - ανθρωπου of man
- το the - θειον brimstone - ειναι are - ομοιον the same / similar
meaning :29 –:29 γενος The offspring - ουν therefore - υπαρχοντες who are, - του of - Θεου God - ουκ not - οφειλομεν should - νομιζειν regard - χρυσω gold - η or - αργυρω silver - η or - λιθω stones - χαραγματι engraved - τεχνης crafts - και and - ενθυμησεως the thoughts - ανθρωπου of man
- το the - θειον brimstone - ειναι are - ομοιον the same / similar
The offspring therefore who are of God not should regard gold or silver or stones engraved crafts and the thoughts of man,, the brimstone are the same / similar / alike
This is exactly what the manuscripts say in - Act 17:29 - the translators also - - rearranged and moved " switch " the words around to completely change and alter what the passage is saying and change the Greek word Brimstone into the word "" Godhead ""
translation
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
everywhere is to suddenly repent - repent for improperly worshiping the Godhead, for the last 4000 years the prophets were living in ignorance and disobedient, rebellious and everyone in the Bible ignored the Godhead / Trinity and God winked at this ignorance and turned a blind eye - but demands repentance for improperly worshiping the Trinity - Godhead
In Acts 17, Paul is telling the heathens about the One true God as compared to all the other gods that were represented by the other alters. He is not pointing out poor worship of the Godhead. He is pointing out the difference between worshipping idols which are not God, and the One true God.
The place is Athens. These are not Jews incorrectly worshipping God. Instead, they are heathens who have no knowledge of God. As such, Paul proclaims the God of creation. The reason God is no longer winking at their practices is because the gospel is now going to the whole world and the message is to repent and believe.
The place is Athens. These are not Jews incorrectly worshipping God. Instead, they are heathens who have no knowledge of God. As such, Paul proclaims the God of creation. The reason God is no longer winking at their practices is because the gospel is now going to the whole world and the message is to repent and believe.
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Jesus was indeed a mystery as Paul states.
The Word was Jesus pre-incarnate.
Humanity has never known the Father, never seen the Father, and the Father has never spoken to humanity.
John's Gospel contains the revelation that Jesus declared. We have never known any God other than the Word in the Old Testament.
YHWH was the Word.
Everything was given to Jesus by the Father, creation, salvation, judgement.
The Father does not save us, only the name of Jesus can save us.
Don't waste your time trying to understand the Father from the scripture. There was only ever one creator involved from start to finish. Everything was created through Jesus and for Jesus.
You exist only for Jesus, therefore the only God you need to concern yourself with is Jesus Christ.
The Word was Jesus pre-incarnate.
Humanity has never known the Father, never seen the Father, and the Father has never spoken to humanity.
John's Gospel contains the revelation that Jesus declared. We have never known any God other than the Word in the Old Testament.
YHWH was the Word.
Everything was given to Jesus by the Father, creation, salvation, judgement.
The Father does not save us, only the name of Jesus can save us.
Don't waste your time trying to understand the Father from the scripture. There was only ever one creator involved from start to finish. Everything was created through Jesus and for Jesus.
You exist only for Jesus, therefore the only God you need to concern yourself with is Jesus Christ.
There was only one name given to us by God.
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
The phrase, 'The Father', is a title and not a name.
The phrase, 'The Holy Spirit, is also a title and not a name.
One and only one name throughout the scripture, YHWH, The Word, Jesus The Messiah.
The Father cannot save you nor can the Holy Spirit.
The scripture contains no other name.
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
The phrase, 'The Father', is a title and not a name.
The phrase, 'The Holy Spirit, is also a title and not a name.
One and only one name throughout the scripture, YHWH, The Word, Jesus The Messiah.
The Father cannot save you nor can the Holy Spirit.
The scripture contains no other name.
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● Rev 21:6-7 . . He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without
cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all
this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
1» Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. (Rev 1:8-18)
2» Jesus is in charge of dispensing the water of life. (John 4:10, John 7:37-38)
● Matt 5:8 . . Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The supreme being is invisible and unapproachable. (Col 1:15, 1Tim 1:17,
1Tim 6:16, Heb 11:27)
Personally I think it's safe to conclude from the above comments and
passages that the "God" spoken of by Rev 21:7 and Matt 5:8 is Christ. i.e.
he's been authorized to speak for God, to speak as God, and to be identified
as God. In point of fact, his alter ego The Word per John 1:1-3 has always
been mankind's God from the very beginning, and is as chummy with the
supreme being that mankind is ever going to get.
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● Rev 21:6-7 . . He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without
cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all
this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
1» Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. (Rev 1:8-18)
2» Jesus is in charge of dispensing the water of life. (John 4:10, John 7:37-38)
● Matt 5:8 . . Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The supreme being is invisible and unapproachable. (Col 1:15, 1Tim 1:17,
1Tim 6:16, Heb 11:27)
Personally I think it's safe to conclude from the above comments and
passages that the "God" spoken of by Rev 21:7 and Matt 5:8 is Christ. i.e.
he's been authorized to speak for God, to speak as God, and to be identified
as God. In point of fact, his alter ego The Word per John 1:1-3 has always
been mankind's God from the very beginning, and is as chummy with the
supreme being that mankind is ever going to get.
_
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“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 K
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37
To believe anything we have to hear it , we are all meant to hear and believe the gospel sent out from Jerusalem by the lord.
air certainly first requires someone to believe what the scripture says about Jesus we don’t just say “ I believe Jesus exists “ but we have to hear the word and believe
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:14, 16-17 KJV
This is why the gospel is sent to all creators of earth for salvstion it’s the word tbat teaches us the truth about Jesus and his doctrine
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1 KJV
Luke’s gospel begins telling the church this is an account of what we’re to believe
“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”
Luke 1:1-4
a when we hear the gospel we’re going to also learn about repentance and righteousness going to hear the truth from God
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
Luke 6:46 KJV
to a believer in Jesus that question should be important why do I call Jesus lord if I don’t look at him as my lord and take what he says as the word of my lord ?
to a believer in him this should provoke fear and repentance
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5 KJV
If I believe in Jesus , then to disregard his eternal and true words tbat never will change for anyone is my own foolishness if I believe in Jesus I have no choice but to hear his word because it’s life
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
If we believe in Jesus we need to believe what he said about himself , us , eternal life God the father , sin and death repentance ect …..
salvstion is to believe the gospel of our lord
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 K
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37
To believe anything we have to hear it , we are all meant to hear and believe the gospel sent out from Jerusalem by the lord.
air certainly first requires someone to believe what the scripture says about Jesus we don’t just say “ I believe Jesus exists “ but we have to hear the word and believe
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:14, 16-17 KJV
This is why the gospel is sent to all creators of earth for salvstion it’s the word tbat teaches us the truth about Jesus and his doctrine
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1 KJV
Luke’s gospel begins telling the church this is an account of what we’re to believe
“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”
Luke 1:1-4
a when we hear the gospel we’re going to also learn about repentance and righteousness going to hear the truth from God
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
Luke 6:46 KJV
to a believer in Jesus that question should be important why do I call Jesus lord if I don’t look at him as my lord and take what he says as the word of my lord ?
to a believer in him this should provoke fear and repentance
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5 KJV
If I believe in Jesus , then to disregard his eternal and true words tbat never will change for anyone is my own foolishness if I believe in Jesus I have no choice but to hear his word because it’s life
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
If we believe in Jesus we need to believe what he said about himself , us , eternal life God the father , sin and death repentance ect …..
salvstion is to believe the gospel of our lord
Really, your questions are more subjective than they are honest. Labeling is not what one does to make a point.
"Trinity" is a theological concept that is seen in the Word of God.
Your long overlooking above perspective removed the word of GOD and the answer in the Gospel of John.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus is the Word made flesh. Who is God. Jesus' flesh has been glorified, and HE shed his blood. Therefore the context of no flesh shall enter heaven is speaking of the body unglorified and dying to do sin. Jesus died once because of our sins but is alive forevermore.
your false narrative and terms below are not in line with the Trinity Doctrine.
"trinitarian father "
" trinitarian spirit".
"trinitarian Jesus"
I found it very entertaining yet, ridiculous.
"Trinity" is a theological concept that is seen in the Word of God.
Your long overlooking above perspective removed the word of GOD and the answer in the Gospel of John.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus is the Word made flesh. Who is God. Jesus' flesh has been glorified, and HE shed his blood. Therefore the context of no flesh shall enter heaven is speaking of the body unglorified and dying to do sin. Jesus died once because of our sins but is alive forevermore.
your false narrative and terms below are not in line with the Trinity Doctrine.
"trinitarian father "
" trinitarian spirit".
"trinitarian Jesus"
I found it very entertaining yet, ridiculous.