Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

[Markum1972]

Come on quasar, you continue to mis-read what I say in post. I specifically ask the poster markum the following question? "If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? Then you come along and say this: "You wanted evidence of encyclopedia critique of the Trinity" with the added question, "Is the Trinity Biblical?"

I am asking him for proof that the Trinity is from pagan sources. What he is giving me is what's called in logic, "cricular reasoning." In other words, he is quoting himself as his own expert. It's the same type of circular reasoning if somebody ask me to prove that the Bible is true and then I would start quoting the Bible to prove the Bible to be true. In my case I can prove the Bible to be true without using circular reasoning.

And yes, I do believe in the post-tribulation position and I have posted as much on that thread. All you have to do is read through the post because I am not going to itemize what particular number the post are located. So again quasar, pay attention. PS: Btw, I did prove the Trinity is Biblical in the thread I started at post #1 and you still can't prove it wrong.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You are making a lot of assumptions here. You are basically saying I made this stuff up without any study at all. It is real easy to discredit the evidence that you do not take the time to look up. I say this because there are multiple references that are easy to find for anyone who would take even a short amount of time to research.
You can not argue that a tree in the woods does not exist because you have not seen it. Yet that is exactly what you are doing. Why not take the time to go into the woods and have a look for yourself. Then you will be qualified to have an opinion on the matter.
Anyone that uses this kind of logic that basically says, "because you cannot study it for me to know, it must not be true" is someone that does not care to take the time to know the truth. But instead, it is someone that would rather just believe what they think they already know.
I was going to provide some material, but I can see that I would be wasting my time.

 

[valiant]

You are making a lot of assumptions here. You are basically saying I made this stuff up without any study at all. It is real easy to discredit the evidence that you do not take the time to look up. I say this because there are multiple references that are easy to find for anyone who would take even a short amount of time to research.
You can not argue that a tree in the woods does not exist because you have not seen it. Yet that is exactly what you are doing. Why not take the time to go into the woods and have a look for yourself. Then you will be qualified to have an opinion on the matter.
Anyone that uses this kind of logic that basically says, "because you cannot study it for me to know, it must not be true" is someone that does not care to take the time to know the truth. But instead, it is someone that would rather just believe what they think they already know.
I was going to provide some material, but I can see that I would be wasting my time.

Perhaps you would be good enough to reply to my quotations from the Scriptures?

The policy appears to be, what you cant contravert you just ignore.

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

 

[RBA238]

So rba, your one of those huh? You know like John 17:3 says, "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent." In other words, God the Father is the only true God and Jesus Christ is just along for the ride as "chopped" liver huh?

It's obvious you never thought this issue through especially when you made this Sunday School statement? "The End Result: The Father is ONE LORD/ ONE GOD..Flesh and Spirit as One....Class dismissed." Look, Jesus Christ is God the Father's Son and as far as I know it's a universal law that sons share the same nature as their father.

Number 2! Jesus gives eternal life to all that God the Father gives Him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity "SINCE" only god can give eternal life. Number3! Jesus forgives sin and only God can forgive sins. Number 4! Jesus existed in glory with the Father even "BEFORE" the world was created. Read John 17:5. Number 4! Jesus states that everything that the Father has b elongs to Him, which makes Him the heir of everything that exists. Not to mention that Jesus Christ created everything that does exist. John 1:3, Colossians 1:16,17 as well as Revelation 3:14.

Number 5! Jesus and the Father both indwell all believers, read John 14:23. This also means that Jesus Christ would be omnipresent and therefore God since God alone is omnipresent. Number 6! The context of John 17:3 about the Father being the only true God in no way was meant to deny that Christ is God as well. And the Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is God as well. Read Acts 5:3-4.

Now, I have a question and it's in regard to Romans 8:8-11. I'm not going to quote the verses but rather you read them and then please address the following question? 1-Does the Spirit of Christ (also called here in this passage, "the Spirit of God" dwell in you?

If your answer is "YES" than how is it that the Lord Jesus Christ is NOT God? I mean, how can a spirit who is called "the Sprit of God" in the Bible dwell in you AND in others and yet NOT actually BE God?

If your answer is "NO" (either by simply saying 'no" or by trying to redfine what it means to have the spirit of God AKA, the "Spirit of Christ" dwelling in you) do you understand that you are, according to Romans 8:9, "NONE OF HIS?" The point is laid out at 1 John 2:23, "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." You cannot have fellowship with the Father alone and deny the fellowship of the Son. There are one and the same God, period. "This is what Jesus meant when He said at John 10:30, "I and My Father "WE" are one," that is one in nature. Now class is dismissed for you to go and do some homework.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bluto..I have already explained several times to no avail there is no Trinity..I Have given exact scriptures which prove the case that: THERE IS NO TRINITY. The 3 mentioned are "ADMINISTRATIONS" Of The only God/ Lord. They are (repeat) not "Persons" This is not The Father ("Daddy") and His "Boy" (Jesus) Nor is The Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit, another Spirit. There is only One Lord/ One Spirit..

 

[Markum1972]

Perhaps you would be good enough to reply to my quotations from the Scriptures?

The policy appears to be, what you cant contravert you just ignore.

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

Can you please clarify your meaning for this post? It would appear that we are in agreement? Was that reply meant for someone else or am I missing something?

 

[Placid]

Quote from 775:
You said you have "accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior" so how can Jesus Christ be your Lord and Savior if He is not God? I mean because Isaiah 43:11 says, "I, even I; am the Lord; And there is "NO" savior besides Me?" Can you please explain that to me?
　
Response: --- God was mentioned often as Savior in the OT, as believers lived by Faith in God and obedience to the Law.
There are prophecies in the OT relating to the future restoration of Israel, which gave them comfort, though they would never live to see it.
--- It says in Isaiah 43:
1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine.
7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."
8 Bring out the blind people who have eyes, And the deaf who have ears.
--- This speaks of God who is the Creator of all, and verse 8 refers to the people Isaiah was sent to prophesy to in Isaiah 6:
9 And He said, "Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 "Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed."
　

43:9 Let all the nations be gathered together, And let the people be assembled. Who among them can declare this, And show us former things?
Let them bring out their witnesses, that they may be justified; Or let them hear and say, "It is truth."
--- When it mentions, 'let the nations be gathered together,' it is speaking of more than Israel, and a future gathering. --- So 'let the other nations bring out their witnesses,' --- or let them listen to you (Jacob), and acknowledge that "It is truth."
　
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior."
　
--- If this --- "My servant whom I have chosen," refers to Isaiah who gives the messages and prophecies, then his word is the 'witness' that God is God, and there is no other.
　
In the OT God was their Savior. --- and in the NT, the New Covenant, God is still their Savior, and people come to God through Jesus Christ, as it says in John 14:
6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." --- And again, speaking of Jesus Christ in Acts 4:
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
　
You see, there is no other way to come to God except through accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior. --- While Jesus means 'Savior' and Christ means,'Massiah' --- it is still 'God's plan of salvation,' is it not?

 

[RBA238]

Quote from 775:
You said you have "accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior" so how can Jesus Christ be your Lord and Savior if He is not God? I mean because Isaiah 43:11 says, "I, even I; am the Lord; And there is "NO" savior besides Me?" Can you please explain that to me?
　
Response: --- God was mentioned often as Savior in the OT, as believers lived by Faith in God and obedience to the Law.
There are prophecies in the OT relating to the future restoration of Israel, which gave them comfort, though they would never live to see it.
--- It says in Isaiah 43:
1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine.
7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."
8 Bring out the blind people who have eyes, And the deaf who have ears.
--- This speaks of God who is the Creator of all, and verse 8 refers to the people Isaiah was sent to prophesy to in Isaiah 6:
9 And He said, "Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 "Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed."
　

43:9 Let all the nations be gathered together, And let the people be assembled. Who among them can declare this, And show us former things?
Let them bring out their witnesses, that they may be justified; Or let them hear and say, "It is truth."
--- When it mentions, 'let the nations be gathered together,' it is speaking of more than Israel, and a future gathering. --- So 'let the other nations bring out their witnesses,' --- or let them listen to you (Jacob), and acknowledge that "It is truth."
　
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior."
　
--- If this --- "My servant whom I have chosen," refers to Isaiah who gives the messages and prophecies, then his word is the 'witness' that God is God, and there is no other.
　
In the OT God was their Savior. --- and in the NT, the New Covenant, God is still their Savior, and people come to God through Jesus Christ, as it says in John 14:
6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." --- And again, speaking of Jesus Christ in Acts 4:
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
　
You see, there is no other way to come to God except through accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior. --- While Jesus means 'Savior' and Christ means,'Massiah' --- it is still 'God's plan of salvation,' is it not?

Good Job Sir!!

 

[fredoheaven]

The Tri unity of the Godhead was expressed by Christ and recoreded by His Apostles. Matthew 28:19, 1 John 5:7. Matthew 3 and others. Who among us is worth enough to dethrone Christ and scriptures?

 

[bluto]

Funny thing is I didn't actually study trinity. I was studying about the image of the beast mentioned in Revelation 13. This led me to a study of history and religion from present all the way back across 7 empires. It was during that study that I stumbled on the origin of the word trinity.
Through that study, it became my understanding that Satan was counterfeiting the godhead in his attempt to deceive the world. I went back through time through the 7 empires to discover that the first trinity was formed before the 1st empire (Egypt).
I must note that I am using empire in place of the word "beast" as defined in Daniel. However, an empire was more than how we define it. In scripture it was a world super power... or the most powerful empire at its time.
Anyways, the first unholy threesome (trinity) was Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It was adopted by Egypt asOsiris, Isis and Horus. It was then passed down from empire to empire until Islam declared that Allah (Allat, the Arabian moon goddess) was actually a man and had no sons or daughters.
It would take multiple encyclopedias to put this together. Your best bet would to do a study on it or find a reputable book written about religious history.

I know markum that you didn't actually study the Trinity. When I say you were "informed" I was being "ironic." Here you are posting about how the Trinity is based on paganism and then when I ask for sources you can't provide them. Instead you tell me to look it up which is the ironic part. Your asking me to prove something to myself that I don't believe is true.

Since your the one making the claim it is you that has to provide the proof of the claim. And here's another ironic thing coming from you? You said you didn't actually study the Trinity so how in the world do you know it's derived from pagan sources? Me on the other hand, gave solid Biblical proof of the Trinity in my first post. In fact, the word "Trinity" is acutally a word of convience. When we talk about the Trinity were talking about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit which btw the Bible clearly identifies each person of the Trinity as God.

There are lots of words of convience and some of them are called "portmanteau" words. Take the word "sawbones?" This refers to a doctor. Or how about the word, "brunch?" This word is a combination of the words, "breakfast" and the word "lunch." There are thousands of words of convience and like I said the Trinity is one of them.

And that brings me to the third "ironic" thing. Everybody (or should I say most evrybody) makes the assumption that the Trinity has to have come from pagan sources despite the fact that it was Tertullian who "COINED" the word so how do all of you know he came up with the word from pagan sources? You do not know the operation of ones mind or what he was thinking.

All I know is the fact that the Bible makes it clear that there are three and only persons in the Bible who are identified as God in all of the ways that the Bible identifies God; by His names, titles, unique attributes (or nature), unique actions and His worship. This is what I can prove and I will continue to say until I die. PS: Tertillian coined the word around A.D 200.

IN GOD THE SON,
james

 

[bluto]

Hi Bluto,
Quote from Post 765:
So placid, before I continue, do you personally believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty? I'm asking that now because I do not want to post anything that may not be related to this discussion.
　
Response: --- No, only God Almighty is God Almighty, and all other beings are subordinate to Him.
I have read in Catholic teaching that "You have to believe that Jesus is God, or you cannot be saved." --- That is comparable to the Scripture in Acts 15:
1 And certain men came down from Judea (to Antioch) and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
--- They had a meeting in the Jerusalem Church and James, the brother of Jesus was officiating. At the conclusion they wrote a letter, "To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia," saying:
24 'Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" —to whom we gave no such commandment.'

--- These were converted Jews, who would have been circumcised as children and observed some of the law, but had their own agenda to impose what they believed on the new convets in Antioch, --- which was becoming a Christian Center for the Gentiles.
　
So, I will tell you simply that I have no problem with what others believe, --- but the first question is, whether you have believed in God, and have accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, --- and whether you have the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit?
--- If you are a Christian and I am a Christian, then there is no reason for you to impose your beliefs on me.
Rather, as we discuss what the Scriptures say, we should arrive at the conclusion that God has revealed in His word. --- Okay?
　

Ok placid, I'm only concerned with what you said here: "No, only God Almighty is God Almighty, and all other beings are subordinate to Him." Obviously from this statement you do not believe Jesus Christ is God. Now, I can address this in two or three ways and one way would be to point out that the Son of God is subordinate to the Father but there is a reason why? And the answer to that question can be found at Philippians 2:3-10.

I could also quote verses from the Old Testament that apply to God and Him only but they also apply to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Here, I'll give you an example from Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, the Lord, and the maker of all things. Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF."

Then you have in the New Testament John 1:3, "All things came into being byh Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." Or how about Colossians 1:16, "FOR BY HIM ALL THING WERE CREATED, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties--ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM." So how are you going to reconcile this placid?

Then there is a third way which I would love to explore with you. It comes in the form of a question to you? Why did the Jews crucify Jesus Christ?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[VCO]

Bluto..I have already explained several times to no avail there is no Trinity..I Have given exact scriptures which prove the case that: THERE IS NO TRINITY. The 3 mentioned are "ADMINISTRATIONS" Of The only God/ Lord. They are (repeat) not "Persons" This is not The Father ("Daddy") and His "Boy" (Jesus) Nor is The Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit, another Spirit. There is only One Lord/ One Spirit..

AND HERE IS HIS NAME:

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name​ [SINGULAR]
of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
[THAT IS ONE NAME, NOT THREE, NOTICE NO COMMAS]

 

[Markum1972]

Funny thing is I didn't actually study trinity. I was studying about the image of the beast mentioned in Revelation 13. This led me to a study of history and religion from present all the way back across 7 empires. It was during that study that I stumbled on the origin of the word trinity.
Through that study, it became my understanding that Satan was counterfeiting the godhead in his attempt to deceive the world. I went back through time through the 7 empires to discover that the first trinity was formed before the 1st empire (Egypt).
I must note that I am using empire in place of the word "beast" as defined in Daniel. However, an empire was more than how we define it. In scripture it was a world super power... or the most powerful empire at its time.
Anyways, the first unholy threesome (trinity) was Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It was adopted by Egypt asOsiris, Isis and Horus. It was then passed down from empire to empire until Islam declared that Allah (Allat, the Arabian moon goddess) was actually a man and had no sons or daughters.
It would take multiple encyclopedias to put this together. Your best bet would to do a study on it or find a reputable book written about religious history.

I know markum that you didn't actually study the Trinity. When I say you were "informed" I was being "ironic." Here you are posting about how the Trinity is based on paganism and then when I ask for sources you can't provide them. Instead you tell me to look it up which is the ironic part. Your asking me to prove something to myself that I don't believe is true.

Since your the one making the claim it is you that has to provide the proof of the claim. And here's another ironic thing coming from you? You said you didn't actually study the Trinity so how in the world do you know it's derived from pagan sources? Me on the other hand, gave solid Biblical proof of the Trinity in my first post. In fact, the word "Trinity" is acutally a word of convience. When we talk about the Trinity were talking about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit which btw the Bible clearly identifies each person of the Trinity as God.

There are lots of words of convience and some of them are called "portmanteau" words. Take the word "sawbones?" This refers to a doctor. Or how about the word, "brunch?" This word is a combination of the words, "breakfast" and the word "lunch." There are thousands of words of convience and like I said the Trinity is one of them.

And that brings me to the third "ironic" thing. Everybody (or should I say most evrybody) makes the assumption that the Trinity has to have come from pagan sources despite the fact that it was Tertullian who "COINED" the word so how do all of you know he came up with the word from pagan sources? You do not know the operation of ones mind or what he was thinking.

All I know is the fact that the Bible makes it clear that there are three and only persons in the Bible who are identified as God in all of the ways that the Bible identifies God; by His names, titles, unique attributes (or nature), unique actions and His worship. This is what I can prove and I will continue to say until I die. PS: Tertillian coined the word around A.D 200.

IN GOD THE SON,
james

Let me ask you this...

The prayer to the virgin Mary... where did it come from?

It is a shame that the pagans know more about these things than you.

 

[bluto]

Let me ask you this...

The prayer to the virgin Mary... where did it come from?

It is a shame that the pagans know more about these things than you.

I don't know and I don't care. What does that have to do with anything? I'm not Roman Catholic never have been and as far as I'm concerned the Pope "could" be the anti-christ but I doubt it very much. And your question tells me more about who you've been hanging around as opposed to studying your Bible. And btw, you did not address one point in my post but instead changed the subject, why?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Markum1972]

I don't know and I don't care. What does that have to do with anything? I'm not Roman Catholic never have been and as far as I'm concerned the Pope "could" be the anti-christ but I doubt it very much. And your question tells me more about who you've been hanging around as opposed to studying your Bible. And btw, you did not address one point in my post but instead changed the subject, why?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You have issue with me witnessing to pagans? I don't think that is the case. Yet you pose yourself against me like a Pharisee because I sit among sinners?

I answered all of your questions. I gave you examples of points that could easily be looked up. You didn't even discredit them but simply ignored them. If I gave you a paste from a source, you would say to me that it was not reputable. If I gave you the name of a history book, you would question its integrity. Why? You answered that question in your previous post...

"Your asking me to prove something to myself that I don't believe is true. "

You have hardened your heart against it and become dull of hearing. This is why you refuse to hear anything that anyone says to you on this matter.

This is the question you should be asking yourself right now. Why is it so important for you to hold on to the term "trinity" like some coveted golden calf?

The reason for the question about the prayer to the virgin Mary and how it relates...

The prayer is the same prayer that was used (and still is today) to pray to Diana, Astarte, Ishtar, and Isis (pagan goddesses). This was part of the adoption of the pagans into the Roman Catholic church. It is also the first instance in which you will find the trinity used in Christianity (300 years after Jesus)... and was also taken from the pagans. The worship of the mother and child was made to be Mary and Jesus.

Now look here... the trinity referred to and even the word trinity used in B.C.

In 4 B.C. Aristotle specifically says...
‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ 

Ancient Egypt "The hymn to Amun"

The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations by Thomas Dennis Rock published in 1867

Here is an article: Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine - What does the Bible say? | BiblicalUnitarian.com

There are hundreds if not thousands more references. Again, I cannot read them for you.

I have nothing else to say about this topic as I expect you will ignore any evidence that will be contrary to your belief.

There is one God; that is the father who sits on the throne of Heaven, his word which was made flesh (Jesus), and his spirit (the Holy Spirit) that abides with us. The carnal mind cannot conceive it, but the faithful in him will receive it.

 

[fredoheaven]

You have issue with me witnessing to pagans? I don't think that is the case. Yet you pose yourself against me like a Pharisee because I sit among sinners?

I answered all of your questions. I gave you examples of points that could easily be looked up. You didn't even discredit them but simply ignored them. If I gave you a paste from a source, you would say to me that it was not reputable. If I gave you the name of a history book, you would question its integrity. Why? You answered that question in your previous post...

"Your asking me to prove something to myself that I don't believe is true. "

You have hardened your heart against it and become dull of hearing. This is why you refuse to hear anything that anyone says to you on this matter.

This is the question you should be asking yourself right now. Why is it so important for you to hold on to the term "trinity" like some coveted golden calf?

The reason for the question about the prayer to the virgin Mary and how it relates...

The prayer is the same prayer that was used (and still is today) to pray to Diana, Astarte, Ishtar, and Isis (pagan goddesses). This was part of the adoption of the pagans into the Roman Catholic church. It is also the first instance in which you will find the trinity used in Christianity (300 years after Jesus)... and was also taken from the pagans. The worship of the mother and child was made to be Mary and Jesus.

Now look here... the trinity referred to and even the word trinity used in B.C.

In 4 B.C. Aristotle specifically says...
‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ 

Ancient Egypt "The hymn to Amun"

The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations by Thomas Dennis Rock published in 1867

Here is an article: Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine - What does the Bible say? | BiblicalUnitarian.com

There are hundreds if not thousands more references. Again, I cannot read them for you.

I have nothing else to say about this topic as I expect you will ignore any evidence that will be contrary to your belief.

There is one God; that is the father who sits on the throne of Heaven, his word which was made flesh (Jesus), and his spirit (the Holy Spirit) that abides with us. The carnal mind cannot conceive it, but the faithful in him will receive it.

'paganism? umm so is everybody is worshipping or obeying Janus,Mars,Aphrodite, etc and none is excempted and exactly you're part of this paganism mess...

 

[fredoheaven]

We are here to prove it biblically as the original op is concerned. This argument of paganism is a side track I guess...

 

[jaybird88]

Let me ask you this...

The prayer to the virgin Mary... where did it come from?

It is a shame that the pagans know more about these things than you.

IMO the Mary prayer was at one time a prayer to wisdom, wisdom is always female. Mary was used to symbolize wisdom and somehow wisdom was forgotten over the years, or hidden. also there are some that believe the Holy Spirit is female. is it a coincidence that when the Father created Adam He didnt want to leave him alone so He made him a "helper". before Jesus went back to the Father He didnt want to leave the Apostles alone, He asked the Father to send them a "Helper".

 

[RBA238]

Time for us to move to another subject. Most here understand there is no 3 persons in One God. I also would like to thank thostory e who posted from what Ancient History has proven on a Triune Godhead.

 

[valiant]

Time for us to move to another subject. Most here understand there is no 3 persons in One God. I also would like to thank thostory e who posted from what Ancient History has proven on a Triune Godhead.

That is merely a definition of terms. What the Christians call a Trinity is very different from what others called a trinity. The latter means three separate gods. It has nothing to say about the Triune God.

The Bible teaches us that God is triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Together they form One God, One Being, in which there are three persona (or 'personalities'). But there we must accept the truth as given. We are mere humans and it is beyond our understanding,

 

[bluto]

You have issue with me witnessing to pagans? I don't think that is the case. Yet you pose yourself against me like a Pharisee because I sit among sinners?

I answered all of your questions. I gave you examples of points that could easily be looked up. You didn't even discredit them but simply ignored them. If I gave you a paste from a source, you would say to me that it was not reputable. If I gave you the name of a history book, you would question its integrity. Why? You answered that question in your previous post...

"Your asking me to prove something to myself that I don't believe is true. "

You have hardened your heart against it and become dull of hearing. This is why you refuse to hear anything that anyone says to you on this matter.

This is the question you should be asking yourself right now. Why is it so important for you to hold on to the term "trinity" like some coveted golden calf?

The reason for the question about the prayer to the virgin Mary and how it relates...

The prayer is the same prayer that was used (and still is today) to pray to Diana, Astarte, Ishtar, and Isis (pagan goddesses). This was part of the adoption of the pagans into the Roman Catholic church. It is also the first instance in which you will find the trinity used in Christianity (300 years after Jesus)... and was also taken from the pagans. The worship of the mother and child was made to be Mary and Jesus.

Now look here... the trinity referred to and even the word trinity used in B.C.

In 4 B.C. Aristotle specifically says...
‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ 

Ancient Egypt "The hymn to Amun"

The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations by Thomas Dennis Rock published in 1867

Here is an article: Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine - What does the Bible say? | BiblicalUnitarian.com

There are hundreds if not thousands more references. Again, I cannot read them for you.

I have nothing else to say about this topic as I expect you will ignore any evidence that will be contrary to your belief.

There is one God; that is the father who sits on the throne of Heaven, his word which was made flesh (Jesus), and his spirit (the Holy Spirit) that abides with us. The carnal mind cannot conceive it, but the faithful in him will receive it.

Of course I oppose you like a Pharisee because you deny the deity of Jesus Christ just like they did. Here is what you said: "There is one God; that is the father who sits on the throne of Heaven, his word which was made flesh (Jesus), and his spirit (the Holy Spirit) that abides with us. The carnal mind cannot conceive it, but the faithful in him will receive it."

Then you go on and quote Biblical Unitarians (who btw are not Biblical) who also deny the deity of Jesus Christ, just like the pagans, mormons, jw's, christadelphians, so-called christian science and the list goes on. And it would probably surprise you but as I have said hundred's of times I do not believe Trinitarianism is a REQUIREMENT for salvation. It is the "RESULT" of salvation, for (or because) you cannot know Jesus Christ and somehow miss the fact that he is God. You cannot have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God. Read Romans 8:9-11.

Now, the Bible is explicit with proof in declaring that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. You have John 1:1, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, you have the trial transcript of Jesus at Matthew 26:59-65 being accused of blasphemy and later crucified for claiming He was God. You also have the declaration of Thomas at John 20:28, where He said literally to Jesus Himself, "The Lord of me and the God of me."

And you want to know the interisting part about all of this? The un-Biblical Unitarians go out of their way to deny every single verse I mentioned to say those verses are not teaching what they say. If you don't believe me go to their sight that you posted and just type in the verses.

You also said this: "I have nothing else to say about this topic as I expect you will ignore any evidence that will be contrary to your belief." What evidence? Give me the evidence that Tertullian coined the word "trinity" from pagan sources? Did it ever occure to you that the Lord God may have giving him the idea? Your willing to believe he came up with the idea from pagan sources but not believe that God may have given him the thought?


Lastly, you said to me, "Why is it so important for you to hold on to the term "trinity" like some coveted golden calf?" Oh I'm not hanging on to the Trinity, I'm hanging on to Jesus Christ just like Jacob did when he wrestled Jesus Christ at Genesis 32:28-32 and I will never let go.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Quasar92]

Here is the full divinity of Christ found in the Bible:

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

First of all, there is nothing in your above post I disagree with, except Mt.28:19, which is an alteration from what the author originally wrote. Because the Bible clearly teaches, God is the Holy Spirit AND Father, by many passages of Scripure, including Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35. Nothing else in your post supports the Trinity fron the Bible, in which there is none. Nor did Jesus or His disciples ever teach it. According to the Bible, the pre-incarnate Jesus was indeed created, according to Pr.8:22-36, that is confirmed in Col.1:15 where it states, "He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN over all creation." God created the universe by Jesus, according to Heb.1:2. All of which is precisely documented in my post #760, the Biblical description of God nd the origin of Jesus. Let it be clearly uderstood, Jesus did not become the Son of God/God the Son, intil recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Luke1:32 and 35.


Quasar92