Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

[Placid]

Hi Quasar92

Quote from Post 745:
Here is an excerpt from the Doctrinal Statement of Faith of the Church where I worship.
PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR STATEMENT OF FAITH from where you Worship
about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
　
This is our "Covenant of Membership"

We do in the presence of men, confess Christ as our Savior and Lord; and do give ourselves heartily to His service, and take His word as the rule of our life. And having been united by faith to Him, we do now, as a Church of Christ, unite with one another in this Covenant.
We shall observe habitually secret prayer and the reading of the Scriptures, earnestly seeking therein the help of the Holy Spirit.
We, who are the heads of families, shall maintain the worship of God in our homes, and shall endeavor to lead our children, or others committed to our charge, to faith in Christ and to the Christian life.

We shall attend regularly, as far as Providence permits, the public worship of God on the Lord’s Day, and such other meetings of worship as the Church may appoint, and we shall observe together the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper.

We shall walk together in brotherly love, with Christian sympathy and kindness, and shall admonish and help one another as may be needful. We shall not bring to the Church a complaint against any member for personal trespass or offence until we have taken the first and second steps pointed out by Christ (Matthew 18:15-17); thus endeavoring to settle all private offences without publicity.

We shall aid as the Lord shall prosper us, in supporting a faithful Christian ministry among us, and in sending the Gospel to the whole human family; and as we have opportunity we shall seek by example and word to lead men to Christ.
We shall endeavor to live soberly and righteously and Godly in this present world, abstaining from whatever is unbecoming to the Christian character; and as baptism signifies our death to sin and resurrection to holiness, so we shall seek to walk in newness of life.
　
And this is the First item of Faith in the Scripture.
1. The Inspiration and Authority of Scripture
We believe the Holy Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, as originally given by God are divinely inspired, without error, entirely trustworthy, and constitute the only supreme authority in all matters of faith, teaching and behavior.
　
While Some Fundamentalists use only the KJV, I use them all. I believe the most accurate are: The New King James, the New American Standard, the New International Version, and the reliable King James Version in Old English.
　

 

[Quasar92]

Hi, thanks for the welcome, Tourist, Quasar92, and Bluto.

Quote from Post 754:
Welcome to the boards placid. You said in your post the trinity doctrine is faulty. Can you please explain on what basis it is faulty? Secondly, did you read my post #1 on this thread I started? What did I say that is not Biblical?

Response: --- I will explain what is faulty with the trinity doctrine as I continue

Quote from Post 1:
"But first I want to say the doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption" as quasar seems to think. It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God and the fact that the Bible IDENTIFIES three (and only three) persons as God."

--- While this is a general understanding of Christians, there is a different thought in Modern or Liberal Theology, so we will see how accurate your views are to the Scriptures.
While many people who become Christians, learn the trinity doctrine in their Churches, --- but they receive their salvation through Faith in God, and by accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, --- then it can't be tied to a particular doctrine that causes division. --- So, as we study the doctrine of trinity, we can agree to disagree, agreeably, can we not?
　

I suggest you review my post #760 and have paid particular attention to the Biblical Description of God and rigin of Jesus link. Keep in mind, you cannot teach the Trinity from the Bible, nor did Jesus, or His disciples ever teach it.

So far, you have contributed opinion without Scriptural support of any kind.


Quasar92

 

[Placid]

To continue from Post 751:
The Roman Government was persecuting the Christian Churches through the ages, and really wanted to destroy them, as they had done with Judaism.
While the persecution continued till about 300 AD, Rome contacted some ministers to make a kind of alliance, --- with an agreement to stop the persecution if they could organize together. --- There was disagreement among Church leaders about the nature of God, so it gave opportunity to bring them together by the Emperor Constantine. --- Some of these ministers were perhaps more politically minded than spiritually minded, so they agreed to listen, though the strategy was, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
They proposed a New Church that would be 'universal,' --- and all of these ministers would be the 'governing body.'
　
Quote from the
Encyclopedia Britannica 1968
"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325. Constantine himself presiding, actively guiding the discussion, and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council. 'of one substance with the father.' Over-awed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them against their inclination. Constantine regarded the decision of Nicaea as 'divinely inspired.' As long as he lived no one dared openly to challenge the creed of Nicaea."
　
Quoted from online:
Constantine was really only interested in unifying the empire and gaining more power. He broke truces, started wars, and even had relatives killed to further his power. Constantine was more interested in unity than in getting the correct doctrine. It is said that before he died Constantine switched sides and took Arius’ position regarding the trinity instead of the position that he forced through the council of Nicea. Without Constantine's presiding, actively guiding, and actively controlling the discussion there would not have been a Nicene creed. --- But what manner of man was this person who pushed through this doctrine which was to become so dominant in Christianity?
--- (Even after he supposedly accepted Christianity, it says, quote: "He killed an already vanquished rival, killed his wife – and murdered an innocent son.")
"It was Constantine who by official edict brought Christianity to believe in the formal division of the Godhead into two – God the Father and God the Son (325). It remained the task of a later generation to bring Christianity to believe in the Triune God (381)."
--- Quote from Wikipedia:
The original Nicene Creed was first adopted in 325 at the First Council of Nicaea. At that time, the text ended with the words "We believe in the Holy Spirit",
Enough for now.
Placid
　

 

[valiant]

I suggest you review my post #760 and have paid particular attention to the Biblical Description of God and rigin of Jesus link. Keep in mind, you cannot teach the Trinity from the Bible, nor did Jesus, or His disciples ever teach it.

So far, you have contributed opinion without Scriptural support of any kind.


Quasar92

Here is the full divinity of Christ found in the Bible:

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

 

[bluto]

Hi, I am a new member and have been reading from page 1 of your good discussion on this topic started by Bluto. --- I read with interest Post 25 by Quasar92. I also have read the quote in AW Tozer's book, "The knowledge of the Holy." where it says, --- That the Trinity is an "incomprehensible mystery."

This made God a 'mystery' to mankind, when the Scriptures say, 'that we are to know God.'
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3. --- We are to know "The only true God."
　
I'm sure you have covered most of the aspects of the faulty trinity doctrine, and I my not read all of the comments but I want to come and learn more, as we each have our own understanding, but our shades of perception might be influenced by our opinions, or others, so we need to examine everything in the the light of the Scriptures.
--- I have been involved in a long discussion on the subject with some trinititarians and I discovered some interesting things. The Church had followed the Apostles' teaching up to about 300 AD, in spite of persecution from Rome, but there was a dispute that had grown among the Churches about understanding God, and the relationship to Christ.
Arius said that "There had to be a time when God existed alone." --- This would mean that the Word, (through whom all things were created, John 1:3), and Christ, came later. --- We find references in the annals of history, that the Word was called a 'Son of God,' --- It follows logically when there is a Father-Son relationship, that the Father had to come first. --- Then both Christ and Jesus are called 'the Son of God.' --- Notice the interesting wording in Luke 1:
34 Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?"
35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be 'called' the Son of God."
--- It doesn't really say that Jesus 'was' the Son of God, but that He would be CALLED the Son of God. --- Which He was called through the Gospels, and still is. --- And it comes down to us where it says in Romans 8:
14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." --- So we identify with Jesus.
I will continue later, --- and feel free to question and challenge what I say, as you have been doing in the discussion.
Placid
　

Ok placid, I'll be happy to address some of the issues you raised by as you said, "challenge" what you have said. First of all the main basis of the Council of Nicea at 325ad was to refute Arianism which taught Jesus Christ was a created being. The modern Arains today are the JW's. The Council did not meet to invent the Trinity. In another post of mine I did write the purpose of the creeds but I don't want to get into now.

I mainly want to address this statement of yours: " It doesn't really say that Jesus 'was' the Son of God, but that He would be CALLED the Son of God. --- Which He was called through the Gospels, and still is. --- And it comes down to us where it says in Romans 8:
14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." --- So we identify with Jesus."

I think it would be wise, in fact I know it would be wise to take the whole of Scripture before making certain points. For instance, your right Luke 1:35 does say Jesus will be called the Son of God. At Luke 2:11 it states, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, WHO IS CHRIST THE LORD." The at Matthew 1:23, "Behold, the virgin shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us."

So placid, before I continue, do you personally believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty? I'm asking that now because I do not want to post anything that may not be related to this discussion.

IN GOD THE SON,
james

 

[VCO]

i have no idea what the statements of faith are at my church. i go there for Sunday school and praise and worship. i dont go there to follow the group, the bible teaches not to do that. follow Jesus instead.

Most Churches theses days have their Statement of Faith posted on their Website. Sometimes you have to hunt for it on the website, but usually it is under a menu bar heading like: About.


Here is what the Bible teaches about Church, so you are are doing right:

Hebrews 10:23-25 (GW)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] We must continue to hold firmly to our declaration of faith. The one who made the promise is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] We must also consider how to encourage each other to show love and to do good things.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] We should not stop gathering together with other believers, as some of you are doing. Instead, we must continue to encourage each other even more as we see the day of the Lord coming.

 

[Markum1972]

Trinity is actually a pagan term. Every pagan religion has a trinity of three deities that work together. This originated with the worship of Nimrod, his wife, and son in Babylon.

This form of religion has hitched a ride on the back of every empire since then.

During the integration of the pagans by the Roman Catholic church, the word trinity was adopted (as were many other terms). Here are just a few of the things that were adopted by the Roman Catholic church to appease the pagans...

Trinity was adopted as another term for "godhead" despite the major differences in the two.
Worship of the mother of the gods and queen of the throne of Heaven, was changed from Astarte and Diana to the Virgin Mary.
December 25th which marked the birthday of the trinity of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz was changed to the birthday of Jesus, however many of the traditions such as bringing a tree into the home to ward off evil spirits was kept the same.
Friday from sundown to Saturday at sundown as recognized as the Sabbath day that God commanded to keep holy (and is the same time Jesus and the disciples honored as it is the time mentioned in scripture) was changed to the holy day of Nimrod, the sun god... Sunday.

Just a few to mention. "Mystery Babylon" anyone? This is just a result of the mystery of Babylon as there is much more to it than just this.

 

[bluto]

Trinity is actually a pagan term. Every pagan religion has a trinity of three deities that work together. This originated with the worship of Nimrod, his wife, and son in Babylon.

This form of religion has hitched a ride on the back of every empire since then.

During the integration of the pagans by the Roman Catholic church, the word trinity was adopted (as were many other terms). Here are just a few of the things that were adopted by the Roman Catholic church to appease the pagans...

Trinity was adopted as another term for "godhead" despite the major differences in the two.
Worship of the mother of the gods and queen of the throne of Heaven, was changed from Astarte and Diana to the Virgin Mary.
December 25th which marked the birthday of the trinity of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz was changed to the birthday of Jesus, however many of the traditions such as bringing a tree into the home to ward off evil spirits was kept the same.
Friday from sundown to Saturday at sundown as recognized as the Sabbath day that God commanded to keep holy (and is the same time Jesus and the disciples honored as it is the time mentioned in scripture) was changed to the holy day of Nimrod, the sun god... Sunday.

Just a few to mention. "Mystery Babylon" anyone? This is just a result of the mystery of Babylon as there is much more to it than just this.

Since you are so well "informed" markum about the Trinity let me ask you this question? If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? I mean anybody can make a claim and since your in the big leagues now and not messing around with little kids, you have to prove your claim

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[VCO]

Trinity is actually a pagan term. Every pagan religion has a trinity of three deities that work together. This originated with the worship of Nimrod, his wife, and son in Babylon.

This form of religion has hitched a ride on the back of every empire since then.

During the integration of the pagans by the Roman Catholic church, the word trinity was adopted (as were many other terms). Here are just a few of the things that were adopted by the Roman Catholic church to appease the pagans...

Trinity was adopted as another term for "godhead" despite the major differences in the two.
Worship of the mother of the gods and queen of the throne of Heaven, was changed from Astarte and Diana to the Virgin Mary.
December 25th which marked the birthday of the trinity of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz was changed to the birthday of Jesus, however many of the traditions such as bringing a tree into the home to ward off evil spirits was kept the same.
Friday from sundown to Saturday at sundown as recognized as the Sabbath day that God commanded to keep holy (and is the same time Jesus and the disciples honored as it is the time mentioned in scripture) was changed to the holy day of Nimrod, the sun god... Sunday.

Just a few to mention. "Mystery Babylon" anyone? This is just a result of the mystery of Babylon as there is much more to it than just this.

Okay, is the Triune GODhead more to your liking? ONE GOD, WHO also has Three personages within HIM. Satan and his forces have always been in the business of imitating GOD. Such as Pharoah's Magicians, and even the LIE he tempted Eve with, Do this and you will become like GOD.

 

[Quasar92]

Since you are so well "informed" markum about the Trinity let me ask you this question? If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? I mean anybody can make a claim and since your in the big leagues now and not messing around with little kids, you have to prove your claim

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Hi bluto,
You wanted evidence of encyclopedia critique of the Trinity, so the following is but the tip of the iceberg. There is many more, if the following fails to meet your acceptance. In additio, I noticed your rejection of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in one of your other posts. So I'm providing the Scriptures that fully support it for you to muse over.

Is the Trinity Biblical

See the following for much more: Is the Trinity Biblical


Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar92

 

[jaybird88]

Trinity is actually a pagan term. Every pagan religion has a trinity of three deities that work together. This originated with the worship of Nimrod, his wife, and son in Babylon.

This form of religion has hitched a ride on the back of every empire since then.

During the integration of the pagans by the Roman Catholic church, the word trinity was adopted (as were many other terms). Here are just a few of the things that were adopted by the Roman Catholic church to appease the pagans...

Trinity was adopted as another term for "godhead" despite the major differences in the two.
Worship of the mother of the gods and queen of the throne of Heaven, was changed from Astarte and Diana to the Virgin Mary.
December 25th which marked the birthday of the trinity of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz was changed to the birthday of Jesus, however many of the traditions such as bringing a tree into the home to ward off evil spirits was kept the same.
Friday from sundown to Saturday at sundown as recognized as the Sabbath day that God commanded to keep holy (and is the same time Jesus and the disciples honored as it is the time mentioned in scripture) was changed to the holy day of Nimrod, the sun god... Sunday.

Just a few to mention. "Mystery Babylon" anyone? This is just a result of the mystery of Babylon as there is much more to it than just this.

i always thought the canaanites were the first to have the triune gods?

 

[jaybird88]

Most Churches theses days have their Statement of Faith posted on their Website. Sometimes you have to hunt for it on the website, but usually it is under a menu bar heading like: About.


Here is what the Bible teaches about Church, so you are are doing right:

Hebrews 10:23-25 (GW)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] We must continue to hold firmly to our declaration of faith. The one who made the promise is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] We must also consider how to encourage each other to show love and to do good things.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] We should not stop gathering together with other believers, as some of you are doing. Instead, we must continue to encourage each other even more as we see the day of the Lord coming.

this is where you and are very different, what ever your church statement of faith says is how you define yourself as a Christian. i dont let a group decide how i follow Jesus.

Jesus teaches ask, seek, knock. i dont remember Him teaching us to go join the group that sounds the best.

 

[bluto]

Hi bluto,
You wanted evidence of encyclopedia critique of the Trinity, so the following is but the tip of the iceberg. There is many more, if the following fails to meet your acceptance. In additio, I noticed your rejection of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in one of your other posts. So I'm providing the Scriptures that fully support it for you to muse over.

Is the Trinity Biblical

See the following for much more: Is the Trinity Biblical


Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar92

Come on quasar, you continue to mis-read what I say in post. I specifically ask the poster markum the following question? "If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? Then you come along and say this: "You wanted evidence of encyclopedia critique of the Trinity" with the added question, "Is the Trinity Biblical?"

I am asking him for proof that the Trinity is from pagan sources. What he is giving me is what's called in logic, "cricular reasoning." In other words, he is quoting himself as his own expert. It's the same type of circular reasoning if somebody ask me to prove that the Bible is true and then I would start quoting the Bible to prove the Bible to be true. In my case I can prove the Bible to be true without using circular reasoning.

And yes, I do believe in the post-tribulation position and I have posted as much on that thread. All you have to do is read through the post because I am not going to itemize what particular number the post are located. So again quasar, pay attention. PS: Btw, I did prove the Trinity is Biblical in the thread I started at post #1 and you still can't prove it wrong.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Placid]

Hi Bluto,
Quote from Post 765:
So placid, before I continue, do you personally believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty? I'm asking that now because I do not want to post anything that may not be related to this discussion.
　
Response: --- No, only God Almighty is God Almighty, and all other beings are subordinate to Him.
I have read in Catholic teaching that "You have to believe that Jesus is God, or you cannot be saved." --- That is comparable to the Scripture in Acts 15:
1 And certain men came down from Judea (to Antioch) and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
--- They had a meeting in the Jerusalem Church and James, the brother of Jesus was officiating. At the conclusion they wrote a letter, "To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia," saying:
24 'Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" —to whom we gave no such commandment.'

--- These were converted Jews, who would have been circumcised as children and observed some of the law, but had their own agenda to impose what they believed on the new convets in Antioch, --- which was becoming a Christian Center for the Gentiles.
　
So, I will tell you simply that I have no problem with what others believe, --- but the first question is, whether you have believed in God, and have accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, --- and whether you have the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit?
--- If you are a Christian and I am a Christian, then there is no reason for you to impose your beliefs on me.
Rather, as we discuss what the Scriptures say, we should arrive at the conclusion that God has revealed in His word. --- Okay?
　

 

[bluto]

Hi Bluto,
Quote from Post 765:
So placid, before I continue, do you personally believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty? I'm asking that now because I do not want to post anything that may not be related to this discussion.
　
Response: --- No, only God Almighty is God Almighty, and all other beings are subordinate to Him.
I have read in Catholic teaching that "You have to believe that Jesus is God, or you cannot be saved." --- That is comparable to the Scripture in Acts 15:
1 And certain men came down from Judea (to Antioch) and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
--- They had a meeting in the Jerusalem Church and James, the brother of Jesus was officiating. At the conclusion they wrote a letter, "To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia," saying:
24 'Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" —to whom we gave no such commandment.'

--- These were converted Jews, who would have been circumcised as children and observed some of the law, but had their own agenda to impose what they believed on the new convets in Antioch, --- which was becoming a Christian Center for the Gentiles.
　
So, I will tell you simply that I have no problem with what others believe, --- but the first question is, whether you have believed in God, and have accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, --- and whether you have the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit?
--- If you are a Christian and I am a Christian, then there is no reason for you to impose your beliefs on me.
Rather, as we discuss what the Scriptures say, we should arrive at the conclusion that God has revealed in His word. --- Okay?
　

I just read what you wrote placid and you said "No" regarding the deity of Jesus Christ? So let me leave you with the following since I have to leave right now and I will get back to you. You said you have "accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior" so how can Jesus Christ be your Lord and Savior is He is not God? I mean because Isaiah 43:11 says, "I, even I; amd the Lord; And there is "NO" savior besides Me?" Can you please explain that to me?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Placid]

To continue from Post 763:
--- Quote from Wikipedia:
The original Nicene Creed was first adopted in 325 at the First Council of Nicaea. At that time, the text ended with the words "We believe in the Holy Spirit".
--- This indicates that it was formulated by the Influence of Constantine on the Church council, and 'not' by any inspiration of the Holy Spirit. --- It was a generation later in 381 that the longer version was written, to include:
"And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son
, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified,"
--- The folly of this doctrine that says the Father and Son were the same age, denies the logic that the Father preceded the Son, and the part added in 381 that suggests that the Holy Spirit 'proceeded' from the Father and Son, is saying logically that the Father and the Son 'preceded' the Holy Spirit, --- But the Holy Spirit was with God in the beginning, Genesis 1:2, when the Spirit of God started life in the sea.
　
--- They fashioned the new organization after the Jewish heirarchy with the 'governing body' of the priests and bishops being in a central place, like a head office. --- Then all of the Pastors of local Churches would be subject to this 'governing body.'
--- They named it the "Roman Catholic Church." --- catholic meaning "Universal." --- So they took the name Christian out of it. --- As a new organization dominated by Rome, they had to compromise their faith. They had to write new doctrines that should suit everyone, --- they would agree on them, and then everybody would be required to follow them, --- so that the Church would be 'universal,' and more appealing to all, as they would all fallow the same teaching. --- 'Universal' and 'uniform'.
　
You can be sure that when the Roman Government used this stategy to destroy the effectiveness of Christianity, --- which was what happened, --- that God did not bless them with the Holy Spirit. --- So everything they wrote or decided was from the wisdom of man. --- They had their heirarchy, and eventually when they were organized after 325, they chose a Pope, who would be the head of the Church. --- And the Pope of course was to be the 'representative' of God on earth.
　
The most divisive doctrine was the faulty doctrine of trinity, which couldn't be explained or understood, --- and of whom not all of the 'governing body' were in favor, --- but when 'majority rules,' especially by the order of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, --- the objecters were brought into agreement. --- Now this doctrine was to be taught in all the Churches.
　
--- The ministers of the local community Churches, that refused to accept the trinity doctrine were again persecuted, and some were put in jail, or put to death. --- But now they were not being persecuted by the Roman Government, but by the compromising pastors that were on the payroll of the new Church, and who helped write the doctrines, --- and now they were enforcing them. --- These were perhaps former 'fellow ministers.' --- So this started the conflict between the Roman Catholic Church and the Evangelicals.

--- There were perhaps some local Churches allowed to continue, but the plan was to have all the independent and community Churches come under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church. --- So the wealthy Roman Church spread out under man's guidance. And it became a Dynasty, even becoming involved in conflicts in the name of the Church.
--- They dominated and survived, and we have the Vatican today.
Placid

 

[Markum1972]

i always thought the canaanites were the first to have the triune gods?

I only traced it back to Babylon. If this is true, I would really like to know about it. Can you share any insight on this?

 

[Markum1972]

Okay, is the Triune GODhead more to your liking? ONE GOD, WHO also has Three personages within HIM. Satan and his forces have always been in the business of imitating GOD. Such as Pharoah's Magicians, and even the LIE he tempted Eve with, Do this and you will become like GOD.

It is not necessarily about semantics. The reason I prefer godhead is to understand that not only was the word trinity adopted, but a lot of the ideals about what that means has been also applied to the godhead. This gives a false understanding about who God is and how he operates.
This is why it is so important for us to spend time with God on an intimate level. We need to get to know him as we would also do with anyone that we love. The scriptures can provide a clear understanding as well without all of the adopted nonsense.
I agree. A not only does Satan mimic God but he tries to make himself god.

 

[Markum1972]

Since you are so well "informed" markum about the Trinity let me ask you this question? If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? I mean anybody can make a claim and since your in the big leagues now and not messing around with little kids, you have to prove your claim

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Funny thing is I didn't actually study trinity. I was studying about the image of the beast mentioned in Revelation 13. This led me to a study of history and religion from present all the way back across 7 empires. It was during that study that I stumbled on the origin of the word trinity.
Through that study, it became my understanding that Satan was counterfeiting the godhead in his attempt to deceive the world. I went back through time through the 7 empires to discover that the first trinity was formed before the 1st empire (Egypt).
I must note that I am using empire in place of the word "beast" as defined in Daniel. However, an empire was more than how we define it. In scripture it was a world super power... or the most powerful empire at its time.
Anyways, the first unholy threesome (trinity) was Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It was adopted by Egypt asOsiris, Isis and Horus. It was then passed down from empire to empire until Islam declared that Allah (Allat, the Arabian moon goddess) was actually a man and had no sons or daughters.
It would take multiple encyclopedias to put this together. Your best bet would to do a study on it or find a reputable book written about religious history.

 

[Quasar92]

Come on quasar, you continue to mis-read what I say in post. I specifically ask the poster markum the following question? "If you think the Trinity is borrowed or originated from pagan sources, please supply or show me any encyclopedia that says so? Then you come along and say this: "You wanted evidence of encyclopedia critique of the Trinity" with the added question, "Is the Trinity Biblical?"

I am asking him for proof that the Trinity is from pagan sources. What he is giving me is what's called in logic, "cricular reasoning." In other words, he is quoting himself as his own expert. It's the same type of circular reasoning if somebody ask me to prove that the Bible is true and then I would start quoting the Bible to prove the Bible to be true. In my case I can prove the Bible to be true without using circular reasoning.

And yes, I do believe in the post-tribulation position and I have posted as much on that thread. All you have to do is read through the post because I am not going to itemize what particular number the post are located. So again quasar, pay attention. PS: Btw, I did prove the Trinity is Biblical in the thread I started at post #1 and you still can't prove it wrong.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

At your service, sir! Why don't you cut out banging your head against the stone wall/immovable object, bluto?

The Origin of the Trinity: From Paganism to Constantine


Quaqsar92