Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#61
#61
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
In the parable of the 10 virgins, the 5 foolish virgins exclaim that their spirits are being extinguished. Scary stuff.
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It was because they didn't trade their sorry rags for Christ's white robes...

Lamp...us with our spirit, we burn out...

Wise virgins are those who gave everything they have for that precious pearl, that bottle of oil.

Because they believed in the gospel message and did not cling to the Law and their own work.

The oil is the Spirit.

It never says the wise virgins paid for the oil, just that they brought it.

Let me check again to be sure....
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
#62
#62
Ariel82 said:
If you come to understand scripture and truth, it will not be by my power or words, but God's grace moving in your life.

"Let's act that way, please"?

It implies that I am not acting like a Christian or believer.

Which I will accept as true because I refuse pretend and "act like a believer".

I simply a child of God talking to her siblings, no act or show.

You misunderstand my words and that is why you think there is a contradiction...I do want you to learn truth. I just know it's not in my power to reveal it to you.

I can talk about scriptures but God will convict and reveal His wisdom through His power.

I can pray with people but it is God who answers prayers.

I refuse to debate because without God's power its all just empty words.
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Ok, thank you very much! That is true what you said. Sorry for misunderstanding! I will pray for this and I will ask more opinions! But stil we have to rely on the Bible :D
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#63
#63
Grace777x70 said:
The blood covenant is with the Father and the Son. We are joined to the Son by the Holy Spirit when we received the truth of the gospel.

When we hear the word of Christ - we believe and then we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


We can grieve the Holy Spirit by not speaking words of grace, having malice, bitterness, anger, wrath..etc. But we are still sealed by Him.

Ephesians 4:29-31 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

Some say that we can as an act of our will walk away from Christ. I don't believe that. There may be people that are sick in their minds and in their thinking and do stupid things.

Can I with an act of my will un-born myself from being a human being? I believe we cannot do the same thing as we are born again and we are in Christ now and sealed with the Holy Spirit. We can't "un-born" ourselves from Christ. Sin cannot separate us from Christ as He took away all sin. It's unbelief in Christ that is the only sin that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of.

Another thing that happens is that people read scriptures to do with salvation in this earth while we are living here and equate that to not going to heaven if we fail to experience the life that is ours in Christ.
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Grace777x70 said:

When you quote a scripture without other scriptures - you can make that scripture say whatever you want.

I'll respond in a minute to the above scripture so that people can see it in context - but in the meantime - what about this scripture?...if you have sinned - you are blotted out of the book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

The way you post scripture by itself - you will have us all in hell. All scripture needs to be interpreted through the finished work of Christ.
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Just wondering how you would explain the meaning of Heb 6:4-..
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#64
#64
Christ has finished His work but we have to deny ourselves and pick up our cross.. Of you stop and look back the Jesus says you're unfit for the Kingdom.. Reiterated in Rev 21..

People say God will never leave nor forsake you..
Moses said that to Joshua before he was about to take over.. God says to Moses before he dies that they will forsake Him and in that day will make Him angry and He will forsake them.... God Himself says He forsakes folks that make Him angry.. To spit on the sacrifice of His son and keep sinning, I think would do it... Heb6:4 says you have nothing left
Heb10:26 if you need more confirmation
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
HisHolly said:
Christ has finished His work but we have to deny ourselves and pick up our cross.. Of you stop and look back the Jesus says you're unfit for the Kingdom.. Reiterated in Rev 21..

People say God will never leave nor forsake you..
Moses said that to Joshua before he was about to take over.. God says to Moses before he dies that they will forsake Him and in that day will make Him angry and He will forsake them.... God Himself says He forsakes folks that make Him angry.. To spit on the sacrifice of His son and keep sinning, I think would do it... Heb6:4 says you have nothing left
Heb10:26 if you need more confirmation
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then why did Christ come?

If we could do as you say, and earn salvation (by being fit for the kingdom) . Why did Christ come?
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#66
#66
You're own question makes no sense..
Why leave earth? Why send a redeemer?
Why tell us to put off the old man?
Come on really?
Why come back for a church without spot wrinkles or blemishes?
We have free will.. We have to choose to follow..
What do you think we need salvation from? Earth? No it's the propensity to lean towards sin.. If you never stop He's not going to allow you access bc you'll pollute a perfect place.. If Satan and his cohorts are going to be punished, then all those who follow after him in disobedience will be likewise..
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#67
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#67
HisHolly said:
Just wondering how you would explain the meaning of Heb 6:4-..
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Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter on the grace of God.....I love that chapter...

The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers ( in which in the reading of this letter unbelievers would most likely hear this too as in the early stages of Christianity there were both Jewish believers and unbelievers meeting).

Heb. 6:4-8 talks about those that reject Jesus' sacrifice...then in verse 9 it talks about us believers..

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

Here the author of Hebrews is speaking to the "Beloved"..that is us Christians that have accepted Jesus as our sacrifice...and he talks about "things that accompany salvation"

He wanted them to know that the verses 4-8 was not for them..which is why he said.."..though we are speaking in this way."

He didn't want them to put themselves - the true believers in that category.

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter about the love and grace of Christ for us believers...not so good for those Jews depending on the temple system.

Here below if you click on this link it'll take you to a post from mailmandan who gave an excellent breakdown of Hebrews 6:4-9. The last half of his post addresses Hebrews 6:4-9.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128910-twice-dead-3.html#post2428591

 
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HisHolly

Guest
#68
#68
eternally-gratefull said:

then why did Christ come?

If we could do as you say, and earn salvation (by being fit for the kingdom) . Why did Christ come?
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To accept Christ in indeed a being ''fit'' right?
What does He say? deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me... I see nothing about keeping my own ways and doing what I want.. seems like there is some work.. Its a given right?
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#69
#69
Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...
 
M

MikeHenderson

Banned
#70
Feb 26, 2015
737
7
0
#70
Most do not understand Salvation.

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith

We receive Salvation by the Grace of God. We did not receive Salvation by our works. We did not receive Salvation by our Faith. Therefore there is nothing we can do to lose our Salvation.

Once Saved Always Saved is a True Doctrine.

The problem is explained in Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

There are many here on this chat site who have never received Salvation. Its these who others claim have lost their Salvation. They never had Salvation to begin with, AND we can know them by their Fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]So then, you will know them by their fruits.
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
#71
#71
HisHolly said:
Christ has finished His work but we have to deny ourselves and pick up our cross.. Of you stop and look back the Jesus says you're unfit for the Kingdom.. Reiterated in Rev 21..

People say God will never leave nor forsake you..
Moses said that to Joshua before he was about to take over.. God says to Moses before he dies that they will forsake Him and in that day will make Him angry and He will forsake them.... God Himself says He forsakes folks that make Him angry.. To spit on the sacrifice of His son and keep sinning, I think would do it... Heb6:4 says you have nothing left
Heb10:26 if you need more confirmation
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Grace777x70 said:
Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter on the grace of God.....I love that chapter...

The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers ( in which in the reading of this letter unbelievers would most likely hear this too as in the early stages of Christianity there were both Jewish believers and unbelievers meeting).

Heb. 6:4-8 talks about those that reject Jesus' sacrifice...then in verse 9 it talks about us believers..

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

Here the author of Hebrews is speaking to the "Beloved"..that is us Christians that have accepted Jesus as our sacrifice...and he talks about "things that accompany salvation"

He wanted them to know that the verses 4-8 was not for them..which is why he said.."..though we are speaking in this way."

He didn't want them to put themselves - the true believers in that category.

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter about the love and grace of Christ for us believers...not so good for those Jews depending on the temple system.

Here below if you click on this link it'll take you to a post from mailmandan who gave an excellent breakdown of Hebrews 6:4-9. The last half of his post addresses Hebrews 6:4-9.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128910-twice-dead-3.html#post2428591
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Hebrews 6:4-9
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[TD="class: vn"][TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: v en"]"As for those who at one time saw the light, tasting the good things from heaven, and having their part in the Holy Spirit,
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[TD="class: v en"]With knowledge of the good word of God, and of the powers of the coming time.
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[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]And then let themselves be turned away, it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time; because they themselves put the Son of God on the cross again, openly shaming him[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]For a land, drinking in the frequent rain and producing good plants for those for whom it is worked, has a blessing from God:
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[TD="class: v en"]But if it sends up thorns and evil plants, it is of no use and is ready to be cursed; its only end is to be burned.
But, my loved ones, though we say this, we are certain that you have better things in you, things which go with salvation;" [/TD]
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Hmmm I don't know about others but I clearly understand something else :D
Here Paul talks about two categories of people, those who 'saw the light' and 'having their part in the Holy Spirit'
-well I can't seem to imagine that a person can have the Holy Spirit and not be righteous in the eyes of God Acts 5:32 "And we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who keep his laws."[TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]Romans 8:14 :"And all those who are guided by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Acts 15:8: "And God, the SEARCHER OH HEARTS, was a witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit even as he did to us."
- and diverted from Him and have no more the Holy Spirit, they 'let themselves be turned away' it's plain as day. And then Paul talks about the beloved, the dearest ones, those who remained in Christ, The Savior; 'you have better things in you' things that direct you to salvation, because you remain in God and not depart from Him.

So helps us God find the truth! I am a bit sad that paraghraphs from the Bible can be twiste this way :(


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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#72
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#72
BuMiRo

I see that you didn't read mailmandan's link that goes over Hebrews 6:4-8

Here it is again....read the last half as it is all about the words being used in Heb. 6:4-8

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128910-twice-dead-3.html#post2428591

You must be using a different bible as your words are not in line with other scriptures like the one you gave in your post. You changed "those who obey Him " to those who keep his laws"...just what "laws" are those from this different bible?

Acts 5:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."


Here is another scripture that is different from what you quoted.

Acts 15:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
#73
#73
Ariel82 said:
Once the process of sanctification is started...can it be stop and salvation never obtained at death?

Also I don't agree, our soul is being formed now by a new heart and renewed mind in Christ Not upon death.

Salvation of the soul happens when the Holy spirit seals you. The body will happen upon ressurection.
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Ok Ariel, but I brought verses to support my ideas. I once talked without them and is not good. The word of God has to be digested by you not others. You have to come to your own conclusions and then analyze them with others opinions. Yeah you receive a new heart and mind but soul I think is something else, something more. The hebrew concept 'néfeş' and the greek one 'psykhḗ' translatedin the Bible is soul. The hebrew concept literally means 'being who breaths' and the greek one 'a living being'. The soul represents the whole being in (Bible in Basic English)Genesis 2-7
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[TD="class: v en"]"And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth, breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul."[/TD]
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-so Adam wasn't given a soul, but became a living soul.
King James Version- "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

And then we see in Romans chapter 7 that apart from the heart and mind which you say is renewed is something else, A LAW that fights the law received by the heart and mind, so your 'whole soul' is not renewed because you still have the original sin.

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"

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[TD="class: v en"]For I am conscious that in me, that is, in my flesh, there is nothing good: I have the mind but not the power to do what is right.[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]For the good which I have a mind to do, I do not: but the evil which I have no mind to do, that I do.[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]But if I do what I have no mind to do, it is no longer I who do it, but the sin living in me.[/TD]
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So I see a law that, though I have a mind to do good, evil is present in me.
In my heart I take pleasure in the law of God
But I see another law in my body, working against the law of my mind, and making me the servant of the law of sin which is in my flesh."

I know I cannot convince anyone but I see that nobody bothered to explain verse from 1 Peter 1:4-5 an Romans 8-22-25.
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[TD="class: v en"]And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth, breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul.[/TD]
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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#74
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#74
Romans 8:22-25 is just taking about how we are waiting for our new bodies to come as it will be the last manifestation of us being adopted. ( when you study out adoption - you will find it means something completely different then what we mean in modern times )


1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These verses are saying a lot but the main gist of it is that we have an inheritance and we will be getting the full manifestation of it in the future...kind of like the same idea of getting new bodies which will be incorruptible.
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
#75
#75
Grace777x70 said:
BuMiRo

I see that you didn't read mailmandan's link that goes over Hebrews 6:4-8

Here it is again....read the last half as it is all about the words being used in Heb. 6:4-8

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128910-twice-dead-3.html#post2428591

You must be using a different bible as your words are not in line with other scriptures like the one you gave in your post. You changed "those who obey Him " to those who keep his laws"...just what "laws" are those from this different bible?

Acts 5:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."


Here is another scripture that is different from what you quoted.

Acts 15:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
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I have read it! And I think he twists everything. :( the verse 4 especially.

In my text and everywhere I only extracted verses from Bible in Basic Englis and King James Version. And more from the first one. I chose Bible in Basic English because is closer to the one from my country, Roumania :).
I'll bring this one too:
King James Version:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "
-what is 'to renew them again'? and what does 'afresh' mean?=Once more; anew; again: start afresh


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V

valiant

Senior Member
#76
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#76
you will lose salvation the day after Christ the Saviour dies a second time
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
#77
#77
HisHolly said:
Im not foolish enough to think I can turn the headstrong. Im laying out truth so those who are still open to it can take it upon themselves to read ALL text and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them...
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eternally-gratefull said:
I will make it easy.

Salvation can not be earned, It can only be given (by grace)

thus, Since it can ot be earned, it can never be lost. If it could be lost, then it had to be earned to begin with, and was never a grace gift. God lied. and we are all sitting her today following a God who is a liar, and does not keep his word
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Well you are right. I am sorry if I said that salvation can be earned by us. It is only the grace of God, but still you have a little bit of work. Well that work is a duty and you cannot boast with it. Luke 17: 8-10:[TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: v en"]"Will he not say, Get a meal for me, and make yourself ready and see to my needs till I have had my food and drink; and after that you may have yours?[/TD]
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[TD="class: vn"]Does he give praise to the servant because he did what was ordered?[/TD]
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[TD="class: v en"]In the same way, when you have done all the things which are given you to do, say, There is no profit in us, for we have only done what we were ordered to do."

So what I can see here is that we as servants of God have a duty, work to do. If we have free will and even you agree with this (I hope so) we have choices, and we take part of receiving salvation, but we don't have merits 'for we have only done what we were ordered to do."

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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#78
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#78
BuMiRo said:
I have read it! And I think he twists everything. :( the verse 4 especially.

In my text and everywhere I only extracted verses from Bible in Basic Englis and King James Version. And more from the first one. I chose Bible in Basic English because is closer to the one from my country, Roumania :).
I'll bring this one too:
King James Version:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "
-what is 'to renew them again'? and what does 'afresh' mean?=Oncemore;anew;again:start afresh
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If you read that whole thread that was given - you will see all this was answered.

There have been many people that "have fallen away" from the Lord and yet they have come back to the Lord so this scripture would be null and void as it says - it is impossible to renew them again to repentance once they have fallen away....and yet they have come back to the Lord.

Here is a video that might help you in this.

[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#79
#79
Those who actually make Christ their Lord will be saved, yes.. If you deny Him, He will do likewise... That's the point of everything I say..

Not just deny by mouth you can do so by your lifestyle, bc if He's indeed Lord your life will show it
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#80
#80
the degree from which they have fallen and the level of their understanding is only known fully by God.. that's like saying John lived off insects and honey so I can.. It was said he would, not you..
The heart and state of a person is known by God.. its absolutely insane to judge your safety by what you assume was anothers
 
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