Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Those who actually make Christ their Lord will be saved, yes.. If you deny Him, He will do likewise... That's the point of everything I say..

Not just deny by mouth you can do so by your lifestyle, bc if He's indeed Lord your life will show it

Peter denied him three times

What was jesus answer..

Peter, do you love me, Feed my sheep.


It is not up to you or I to figure out who is saved, Or who was saved, Only God knows this..

A person who truly denies Christ, well John calls them an antichrist.

John 2:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.


And said there are many.. Even in our churches, acting like Christians, But they will always leave,, Why? Because in the words of John,
"They were never of us, if they were of us they would have stayed"
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
I have to clean the house today

now where did I put my salvation? maybe I'll find it

I do take this seriously. I really do. But come on
 
Dec 10, 2015
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Its not about Salvation. Its all about controlling others.

Many here want to play being God. They want everyone to believe they are the chosen ones with all the answers. I see so many people on here who will spend months and years auguring over and over again the same subject just to impress others.

Now i'm not saying we are not to bring the Truth to these people, i'm saying its a waste of time debating with these people.

Matthew chapter 7 talks about those who claim to be a True Christian but yet are false christians doing the will of their god Satan.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,708
1,423
113
Of course you can lose salvation, by doing the complete opposite of what you did to gain salvation. Just have a change of heart, deny Christ as your Savior, and walk away. The OSAS crowd believe you can be a hypocrite and sin all you want, while claiming Christ saves us no matter what. But I believe that intentionally doing the opposite of everything Jesus lived and died for, while simultaneously claiming to be saved, is tantamount to mocking God/Christ. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23). While Jesus will never forsake a true believer, nor withhold eternal life from those who earnestly follow his example & teachings, its a misnomer to presume that a Christian can't fall from grace by forsaking Christ. King Saul and Judas Iscariot are examples of that. A Christian must keep the faith and finish the race. As long as we have free will, we have the choice of surrendering salvation, just as we had the choice of accepting it.
Yes.... that is correct, you explained it very well....
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
Its not about Salvation. Its all about controlling others.

Many here want to play being God. They want everyone to believe they are the chosen ones with all the answers. I see so many people on here who will spend months and years auguring over and over again the same subject just to impress others.

Now i'm not saying we are not to bring the Truth to these people, i'm saying its a waste of time debating with these people.

Matthew chapter 7 talks about those who claim to be a True Christian but yet are false christians doing the will of their god Satan.

you bring up a very interesting point about control I think

just knocks the socks off 'freedom in Christ'

freedom is knowing Who Christ is and who we are IN Him

when people try or want to control, they express their own insecurities I think and are often stagnant in growth

anyway, an interesting perception you've made
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes.... that is correct, you explained it very well....
He did?

You highlighted jesus words, where he said "I Never Knew you" And you want to say that explains how someone can lose salvation well??

If Jesus said, I NEVER KNEW YOU, He meant it.. They never had a relationship, ever,, Salvation was not lost. It was never given, because the people never repented, how do we know? "they practiced unrighteousness, or in that version, iniquity"

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
you bring up a very interesting point about control I think

just knocks the socks off 'freedom in Christ'

freedom is knowing Who Christ is and who we are IN Him

when people try or want to control, they express their own insecurities I think and are often stagnant in growth

anyway, an interesting perception you've made
people want control. They make their own God and own religion up. Or follow someone who they feel represents what they believe. Romans 1 speaks to this.. There will be no excuse.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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I advise one and all to try to understand Romans 6
(because, IMO, almost every Western believer does NOT)!

Paul says ... all true born-again believers:
- are NO longer slaves of sin (because of their new nature)
- must CHOOSE to not continue being slaves of sin
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of obedience
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of righteousness
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of God

Regardless of his many other words of encouragement, edification, etc.
these Roman believers are NOT all of the above
simply because they are continuing to be sinners,
i.e. habitual unrepentant sinners.

3 times in 8 verses (6:16 thru 6:23) ...
Paul reminds them ... sin results in (eternal) death.
Hello!
 
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BuMiRo

Guest
The problem is not Salvation. The problem is we are flooded with false christians trying their best to deceive us with their false doctrines.

Read Matthew chapter 7 and you will see the 10 Virgins in this chapter also.

Romans 14:13-14 (KJV):
[FONT=&quot]"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
here Paul talks about not judging one another. I never said you are not christians, you are because you believe in Jesus Christ, and you try your best to understand the Bible and to remain in Him. Now everyone has 'entrustings' like Paul teaches, and I am not entitled to judgement. Let the light of the Lord illuminate us![/FONT]
 
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BuMiRo

Guest
GRACE 777: "I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved
" = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness."



Well yes, that's what I was saying, you are 'saved' from sins, new-born and engaged in a process of sanctification, and only after death you are saved as in 'salvation' like saved for good, forever. Until than you can lose your way. I don't want anybody to lose it, but it's the truth and some christian may lose their way. This terminology and concepts give us headackes.

Look in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (KJV):
[FONT=&quot]"24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
Paul talking about being castaway, he, the one who spread the word of God. And he was righteous.

And look in 2 Peter 1:9:(KJV):
"9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." purge=rid of impurities; purify, sanctify. ' they have forgotten that they were purged.'[/FONT]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I advise one and all to try to understand Romans 6
(because, IMO, almost every Western believer does NOT)!

Paul says ... all true born-again believers:
- are NO longer slaves of sin (because of their new nature)
- must CHOOSE to not continue being slaves of sin
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of obedience
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of righteousness
- must CHOOSE to be slaves of God

Regardless of his many other words of encouragement, edification, etc.
these Roman believers are NOT all of the above
simply because they are continuing to be sinners,
i.e. habitual unrepentant sinners.

3 times in 8 verses (6:16 thru 6:23) ...
Paul reminds them ... sin results in (eternal) death.
Hello!
1. Paul never used the word must.

2. Paul never used the word eternal.

we should not try to add to the word of God..
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,871
6,392
113
1. Paul never used the word must.

2. Paul never used the word eternal.

we should not try to add to the word of God..
see, it's these little " twists", little " add on's ", little subtractions, this is how religion wrecks the Word. as someone posted above, it's about control ( and ego and pride).
 
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BuMiRo

Guest
The problem is not Salvation. The problem is we are flooded with false christians trying their best to deceive us with their false doctrines.

Read Matthew chapter 7 and you will see the 10 Virgins in this chapter also.

And concerning Matthew chapter 7:
[FONT=&quot]"1.Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."

What I understand from this is that all were virgins, like they had all the same statute, 5 were wise, and 5 were unwise. So this doesn't mean they were different in statute-because they were all virgins-the only different is that there were 5 VIRGINS wise and 5 VIRGINS unwise. Like 5 wise christians and 5 unwise. They all prepared for something, they took their lamps and prepared for the bridegroom (Jesus). The unbelievers don't prepare for His coming. And than in verse 11, the 5 unwise virgins expected the Lord to receive them in Heaven and they were not received. [/FONT]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Romans 8:22-25 is just taking about how we are waiting for our new bodies to come as it will be the last manifestation of us being adopted. ( when you study out adoption - you will find it means something completely different then what we mean in modern times )


1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These verses are saying a lot but the main gist of it is that we have an inheritance and we will be getting the full manifestation of it in the future...kind of like the same idea of getting new bodies which will be incorruptible.
I missed the question what did you want to know about these verses?

Got 2 extra 10 year olds this weekend..not much free time for forums, but I said I would come back, so I am trying...

Anyway if you really want to talk just pm me.
 
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BuMiRo

Guest
Only in the state of 'sheep' can enter the door and receive salvation :)

[/QUOTE]

Jesus said He is the door of the sheep and I know my sheep. My sheep hear my voice when they hear of Him.

John 10:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

We hear the voice of our Shepherd when He calls us to Him. Paul talks about it this way.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit after listening to His voice in the gospel call of our salvation which is in Him.

We don't go from being a sheep to a goat. People are either sheep or goats. If a sheep sins that doesn't mean they turn into a goat..and then if he doesn't do a sin - he goes back into being a sheep again. It's nonsense.

The issue of sin has been settled except for the sin of unbelief in Christ.

There are either sheep or goats...and there are no "shoats or geeps".

[/QUOTE]


Well He is the door, yes. Look in Matthew 25:31-33:
[FONT=&quot]"31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Yes he draws us to the door, but from this verses from Matthew 25 I understand that we shall pass that door only when He comes in Glory, the second time-first time was in a state of human-, after He judges us and separates the sheep onto His right and the goat onto His left. So we pass that door only after death. There is the ultimate salvation.
And I never said you can sin ones and end up goat, only if you remain and delight in that sin consciounsly. If you repent and try not to do it again is perfect :)[/FONT]
 
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BuMiRo

Guest
I missed the question what did you want to know about these verses?

Got 2 extra 10 year olds this weekend..not much free time for forums, but I said I would come back, so I am trying...

Anyway if you really want to talk just pm me.

Well I want to know how you interpretate them?! :)
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,814
1,740
113
Its not about Salvation. Its all about controlling others.

Many here want to play being God. They want everyone to believe they are the chosen ones with all the answers. I see so many people on here who will spend months and years auguring over and over again the same subject just to impress others.

Now i'm not saying we are not to bring the Truth to these people, i'm saying its a waste of time debating with these people.

Matthew chapter 7 talks about those who claim to be a True Christian but yet are false christians doing the will of their god Satan.
There are listeners that may hear something that they have read over and over again that may open their eyes when they read It on here.
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
If you read that whole thread that was given - you will see all this was answered.

There have been many people that "have fallen away" from the Lord and yet they have come back to the Lord so this scripture would be null and void as it says - it is impossible to renew them again to repentance once they have fallen away....and yet they have come back to the Lord.

Here is a video that might help you in this.

[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]

I watched it and I don't agree with him. :D I read this verses from a series of traslations and I have come to some ideas:
1) "[FONT=&quot]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."(KJV)

2) "4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (NASB).

3)
[/FONT]

[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: v en"]"As for those who at one time saw the light, tasting the good things from heaven, and having their part in the Holy Spirit,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"][TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]With knowledge of the good word of God, and of the powers of the coming time,[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And then let themselves be turned away, it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time;
because they themselves put the Son of God on the cross again, openly shaming him." (Bible in Basic English)

4) and in my Bible the verse 6 says like this: "it is with incapability/infirmity to be renewed, and brought up to repentence".

The main ideas are extracted from 'it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentence' and 'it is not possible for their
hearts to be made new a second time' which means if they, once they have met the Great LOVE of God through Christ, have
left the true teachings it is kinda hard to make them repent AGAIN, like the chances are low, and they may seem a lost cause.
So here it doesn't say it's impossible, and no one who has fallen can not and didn't come back to Christ,
but it's harder to come back after the quiting. 'To renew them unto repentence' here the accent falls on 'unto repentence',
because they already been there, it's harder to come back to God, from zero. Look at the translation from
my Bible= brought up=induce;
To cause to occur as a consequence. So it's harder for some external forces to do anything more.

Then 'they themselves put the son of God on the cross again', 'seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh',
but this sentences cannot be taken on one's own without ' AND put Him to open shame' or ', openly shaming Him'.
So they 'trashed' the cross of Jesus, and put Him at shame because they once in the eyes of man accepted Him,
then abanonded Him, So people would be influenced in a negative way, even if that man repented and come back.
We should be lights and candles in the eyes of man.

Hebrews 10:29:"
[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]" [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]But will not the man by whom the Son of God has been crushed under foot, and the blood of the agreement with
which he was washed clean has been taken as an unholy thing, and who has had no respect for the Spirit of grace,
be judged bad enough for a very much worse punishment?" (Bible in Basic English)
"[FONT=&quot]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden
under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,
an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"(KJV)

I think this(this punishment) is for people that remain in that state as fallen.
It's a little hard to digest this passages. I'll study more:
But still you can lose your way:eek:ther verses from Hebrews 10 :38-39:
1)"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving
of the soul." (KJV)
2)[/FONT]

[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]"But the upright man will be living by his faith; and if he goes back, my soul will have no pleasure in him.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: vn"]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: v en"]But we are not of those who go back to destruction; but of those who have faith even to the salvation of the soul."[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: v en"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I keep discovering verses that sustain the idea of losing your way.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: v en"]But we are not of those who go back to destruction; but of those who have faith even to the salvation of the soul.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
B

BuMiRo

Guest
Romans 8:22-25 is just taking about how we are waiting for our new bodies to come as it will be the last manifestation of us being adopted. ( when you study out adoption - you will find it means something completely different then what we mean in modern times )


1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These verses are saying a lot but the main gist of it is that we have an inheritance and we will be getting the full manifestation of it in the future...kind of like the same idea of getting new bodies which will be incorruptible.
Adopted as in renewing ourselves so we can be His sons and daughters :). An the body is interconnected with the soul.
The body will be renewed as we have an earthly body, so we will have a spiritual body. Like an outer shell( because Paul says "[FONT=&quot]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." between them an equal sign. A[/FONT]nd our soul will be renewed from the original/Adamic sin at the same time as the body will.
Well in othe translations 'inheritance' is translated 'salvation'. "Salvation ready to be revealed in the last time' and verse nine ' [FONT=&quot]Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.' (KJV). I think I haven't mentioned you verse 9. [/FONT]
 
W

working4christ2

Guest
The short answer to your 1st question is YES

How and Why seems like reasonable follow up questions?

God Bless you

Patrick
working4christ2