Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

[PeterJens]

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13

Now put your thinking hats on a little. We only live in the here and now. Eternal life is a promise about the future that has not yet happened. You cannot receive something now that does not currently exist. Eternal life is a promise.

And the promise is true while you believe in the name of the Son of God. If you stop believing the promise is no longer true.

What some people have done is make eternal life into a thing, like a pen or a notebook. Once purchased you have it, it cannot be taken away. They will quote the above verse claiming it proves their point.

But actually it is just a future promise. And a promise that is conditional. And the condition is that you are found believing.
Now they want only their interpretation, their hope to be written into the words, but that is just because these issues are so serious, and believing God could cast you out is so bad, they do not want to even think about it, because they are simply not sure they know God well enough. But that is the point, unbelief and a lack of relationship. It is the promise that means so much, not the God who gave it. But the promise shows who God is, shows how you should know He loves you and will never let you go if you believe in Him. That is why the cross is so powerful, it cleanses the soul, renews the mind and makes us whole. But to them belief comes and goes like the wind, so why should it be on belief, it is the mystical spirit of new birth.

But only some of you know what I am saying. But that is why His words are strangers to many.

 

[Grace777x70]

What this reveals is that hyper grace really is a Word of Faith theology that makes salvation only about this life. Since it holds that no one can lose salvation no matter what behavior they practice, eternal salvation is really not the issue. The incessant hyper grace proselytizing is about escaping the condemnation of a hyper-sensitized conscience for a better life in this world.

nonsense...that's a construct of your own mind. The Word of Faith that I heard decades ago were Armenians like you are, which is why they were so "works-based" in their minds and in creating and maintaining their own self-righteousness instead of relying on Christ's righteousness alone.

They taught very little about the grace of Christ actually, well the ones I heard decades ago. There is hope that they too now are starting to come to the revelation of the grace of Christ for living in this present world as well as going to be with the Lord. We are praying for you too to come to Christ and believe in Him only for salvation and life.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

nonsense...that's a construct of your own mind. The Word of Faith that I heard decades ago were Armenians like you are, which is why they were so "works-based" in their minds and in creating and maintaining their own self-righteousness instead of relying on Christ's righteousness alone.

They taught very little about the grace of Christ actually, well the ones I heard decades ago. There is hope that they too now are starting to come to the revelation of the grace of Christ for living in this present world as well as going to be with the Lord. We are praying for you too to come to Christ and believe in Him only for salvation and life.

You use the word nonsense too much when you don't know what you're talking about (or lying). Prince is Word of Faith and he essentially started hyper grace.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You use the word nonsense too much when you don't know what you're talking about (or lying). Prince is Word of Faith and he essentially started hyper grace.

....Nonsense.

 

[FreeNChrist]

What this reveals is that hyper grace really is a Word of Faith theology that makes salvation only about this life. Since it holds that no one can lose salvation no matter what behavior they practice, eternal salvation is really not the issue. The incessant hyper grace proselytizing is about escaping the condemnation of a hyper-sensitized conscience for a better life in this world.

....Nonsense.

 

[PeterJens]

As far as I understand it the original pentecostals were armenian.

Interestingly all definitions are limited. I am calvanistic and armenian. There are 5 points or so on each and I hold with a mixture of the two and probably that is true for most believers.

 

[TMS]

Yes, He did choose Saul. But Saul rebelled, showing he was not elect like one of His chosen sent ones, i.e, Apostles.

So are you saying that both the called and the chosen can lose their salvation?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So are you saying that both the called and the chosen can lose their salvation?

There is a third category - faithful.

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him [are] called and chosen and faithful.” Revelation 17:14​

 

[TMS]

Samson was chosen and he went off the rails for a while and came back at the end. Weather we are called or chosen, weather God does greater or lesser things in our life, we all need to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Php 2:12

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a third category - faithful.

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him [are] called and chosen and faithful.” Revelation 17:14​

Amen!...and all those attributes are a function of the grace of God in those believers in Christ alone - not self-works that people did to "achieve" being called, chosen and faithful. As all these things are found in Christ and in His finished work for us that "believe".

 

[FreeNChrist]

Samson was chosen and he went off the rails for a while and came back at the end. Weather we are called or chosen, weather God does greater or lesser things in our life, we all need to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Php 2:12

Work it out, don't work for it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen!...and all those attributes are a function of the grace of God in those believers in Christ alone - not self-works that people did to "achieve" being called, chosen and faithful. As all these things are found in Christ and in His finished work for us that "believe".

The difference between the hyper grace view and the biblical view is that hyper grace views faithfulness as only Christ's faithfulness, whereas the bible teaches that every believer has to be faithful to GOD.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!...and all those attributes are a function of the grace of God in those believers in Christ alone - not self-works that people did to "achieve" being called, chosen and faithful. As all these things are found in Christ and in His finished work for us that "believe".

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.


2 Thessalonians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.


2 Timothy 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

There is a being "faithful" in ministry and to others in the Lord and with what has been given to us in this life.

This is not for eternal life in Christ - this is given as a gift - not something one earns by "doing"...even in Christ we are counted faithful by believing in Christ alone and this belief manifests His life in us to be faithful in what the Lord has for us. These is a difference between being faithful in ministry and in Christ's sacrifice for us in going to be with Him.

Let's preach the grace of Christ so that people will grow up in the Lord so that they will have the life in them manifest out in being faithful in what the Lord has for us in this life.

 

[PeterJens]

The idea of never being able to rebel against the Lord falls down when you think about satan and his angels.

The enemy chose to rebel and was cast down.

Jesus distinguished us as better than John the Baptist because he was born with the Holy Spirit.
God values our choices, and says we are worthy of friendship. This is everyone on the planet.
What is stopping this is a lack of relationship and understanding.

Jesus is the door, and a path which we must walk and follow. It is odd how a gospel full of obedience
following doing etc. is now a version of just believing and resting.

Why these conditions? Because it is who we are and who God is. It is God who reveals the truths,
through scripture and the Holy Spirit. We all know the conviction of sin, the need to repent and confess.
Our true struggle is accepting that God loves us, profoundly. But hyper-grace with hyper-legalism denies
we need to respond or are even capable of it. They are so full of condemnation, only when you start
to see what Jesus intended in blameless walking you begin to see it.

The best illustration of this is as a dad when my daughter or son gets upset when they get angry at me.
You love them, know them, bring protection and support for them. They get sorted out and it is ok.
Walking with God is no more complex. Just read the stories of the men and women of God.
They are just like us, yet God still counted them righteous, blessed, His people. We dismiss the wrong
things and count the wrong things too important.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The difference between the hyper grace view and the biblical view is that hyper grace views faithfulness as only Christ's faithfulness, whereas the bible teaches that every believer has to be faithful to GOD.

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot disown Himself." 2 Tim. 2:13

 

[Trail-of-Truth]

That's too long to read, but to answer your question, yes, we can lose our salvation if we quit being faithful to God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

.......LOL

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot disown Himself." 2 Tim. 2:13

He is faithful when we are faithless, but being faithless requires repentance.

 

[FreeNChrist]

He is faithful when we are faithless, but being faithless requires repentance.

LOL. Huh??

 

[PeterJens]

Here is a trustworthy saying:


If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
2 Tim 2:11-13

The quote about God being faithful is a miss-quote.
Paul is saying if we disown God, he disowns us.
But God is always faithful to himself. But that does not mean if we become faithless we are still saved, no it just means God remains faithful to himself, we have just blown it.