Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#181
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#181
God is always there to pick up those who call.
The issue has always been not about salvation, eternal life, but the essence of the Kingdom and our hearts.

If you agree with the essence of the Kingdom, the expression of love, forgiveness, humbleness and service, you are in the kingdom.

But I suspect a lot of people claim to be saved, but do not accept the essence of the Kingdom, but have created a different faith of success, domination, health and wealth, which are aspirations of this world and not the Lord.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#182
#182
PeterJens said:
Here is a trustworthy saying:


If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
2 Tim 2:11-13

The quote about God being faithful is a miss-quote.
Paul is saying if we disown God, he disowns us.
But God is always faithful to himself. But that does not mean if we become faithless we are still saved, no it just means God remains faithful to himself, we have just blown it.
Click to expand...
Christians don't own Christ, He owns us.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#183
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#183
PeterJens said:
The quote about God being faithful is a miss-quote.
Paul is saying if we disown God, he disowns us.
But God is always faithful to himself. But that does not mean if we become faithless we are still saved, no it just means God remains faithful to himself, we have just blown it.
Click to expand...
This sounds extreme to me. Being faithless doesn't mean loss of justification. It does though require an acknowledgement at some point of being unfaithful. GOD is faithful to us during times of faithlessness.
 
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ZacharyB

Banned
#184
Oct 10, 2015
544
6
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#184
eternally-gratefull said:
Paul never used the word eternal.
we should not try to add to the word of God..
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As in continual unrepentant sin results in eternal death.

Yes, Jesus goes around killing people (believers included)
who persist in habitually sinning without repentance!

Thanks so much for reminding us ... while you fight against God.
Super.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Banned
#185
Oct 10, 2015
544
6
0
#185
BuMiRo said:
Only in the state of 'sheep' can enter the door and receive salvation
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John 10:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

We hear the voice of our Shepherd when He calls us to Him.[/QUOTE]

All of this is in the continuous sense ... NOTHING is a one-time deal.
I.E. Many Christians realize that salvation is a process!
E.G. About 15 NT passages teach us (hopefully) that ...
one's faith MUST endure to the end of life to inherit eternal life!
Anyone care to see the 15 verses?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#186
#186
Chester said:
They are not predestined.
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They are not? Then what are they?

Believer predestined to heaven for eternity before time began.

Unbeliever? Left out in the cold?? What?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#187
#187
Chester said:
So then you believe that a person saves himself by coming to faith . . . and thus this takes God and his death out of the equation?
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Nope. Jesus said it is the work of God that we have faith in him. It is not our work. because we did nothing but sit still and let him do ALL THE WORK.. We trusted him to do what he promised he would do..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#188
#188
Katy-follower said:
That's the one I think of also. Their actions (leaving) is evidence they were never saved.

A person that can now see would not return to their blindness.
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If you truly saw how dark you were, and how much a desperate situation you were in, and in complete humility laid it at the feat of Christ, and experienced his love and forgiveness, WHY WOULD YOU GO BACK?
 
T

Trail-of-Truth

Guest
#189
#189
PeterJens said:
Here is a trustworthy saying:


If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
2 Tim 2:11-13

The quote about God being faithful is a miss-quote.
Paul is saying if we disown God, he disowns us.
But God is always faithful to himself. But that does not mean if we become faithless we are still saved, no it just means God remains faithful to himself, we have just blown it.
Click to expand...
Yes IF we die with Him. Romans 6, I believe it's verse 3, but around there, says we are baptized into His death, and IF we join Him like this in His death that we will also join Him in His resurrection. But we must consider all scripture to understand that we must continually join Him in His death by carrying our cross DAILY. If we quit carrying our cross, and go back to living in sin, we no longer live with Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#190
#190
gotime said:
You can't lose it. But you can reject it.
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If you reject it, you never had it..

people always resort to what their true faith is in, We may try things out for a time, but we always fall back to what we truly believe in,, Where our heart is.. A dog always returns to his vomit, Why? He is just a dog.. A non believer (even if he claims to believe for a time) will always resort to his non belief, because he is a non believer, his faith was dead. It was just a game, "I want to try out this church stuff, see if I like it..)
 
P

PaulMack

Banned
#191
Dec 10, 2015
494
14
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#191
Still people are truly not understanding Salvation.

How can one lose their Faith that Jesus is God? If you know something is True how then can you believe what you knew to be True is now false?

You never believed Jesus is God! This is the problem.

Being Faithful or being unfaithful has NOTHING to do with Salvation. Salvation was receive from God BY His Grace, not by being Faithful.

The ONLY way for us to lose our Salvation is by God changing His mind and removing His Grace from us. God will never do this.

How can a person grow in Christ if they spend all their time trying to hold on to their Salvation? They cannot!

We cannot lose our Salvation by losing our Faith because if you say you have lost your Faith then you NEVER had Faith to begin with! How can you lose that which you never had?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#192
#192
PeterJens said:
Because it states a person saved himself by staying in faith ..It takes God and his death out of the equation,..

I wanted to highlight this phrase. The people who hold to this theology are saying a climber who has faith in the rope when he falls is saving himself. If you ever go rock climbing you know the rope is useless unless attached with someone on the other end. And the anchor point and the other person is where your salvation resides, the rope is just the means of delivery.
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This has got to be one of the worse analogies I have ever seen.

We do not have faith in the rope. we have no rope. we have the hand of God pulling us up.

John 10: [SUP]26 [/SUP]But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Can you please tell me Peter. Where is the rope??

My faith is in Christ, His hand holding me, and the father, who is holding both of our hands,, No one can pull me out of his hands, I can never fall from his hand, and he will not fail in his promise to lead me as a sheep to the promised and, top of the tree, whatever you want the final destination to be.

God takes us by the hand, we do not climb up and hope we make it to heaven, that is self effort. and works based.. No one who tries that will ever make it Peter. period.


These people hate themselves.
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These people? Who are these people?

Peter this is getting crazy, STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK!
 
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Trail-of-Truth

Guest
#193
#193
PaulMack said:
Still people are truly not understanding Salvation.

How can one lose their Faith that Jesus is God? If you know something is True how then can you believe what you knew to be True is now false?

You never believed Jesus is God! This is the problem.

Being Faithful or being unfaithful has NOTHING to do with Salvation. Salvation was receive from God BY His Grace, not by being Faithful.

The ONLY way for us to lose our Salvation is by God changing His mind and removing His Grace from us. God will never do this.

How can a person grow in Christ if they spend all their time trying to hold on to their Salvation? They cannot!

We cannot lose our Salvation by losing our Faith because if you say you have lost your Faith then you NEVER had Faith to begin with! How can you lose that which you never had?
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The bible even says some have left the truth (that Jesus is God). My cousin did. She left Christianity to become Muslim. She knew the truth her whole life, into adulthood, but gave it up in order to marry the one she wanted to marry. She chose that husband over God. It can happen, I've seen it with my own eyes. And the bible says if they leave the truth they can never come back. How can you leave some place where you have never been?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#194
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#194
Lloyd: Oh man I'm feeling really bad because I lost the gold watch my father gave me!
Harry: Dummy! You can't lose a gift!
Lloyd: What!?
Harry: Yeah if you lose something that means you never had it in the first place!
Lloyd: Oh wow! I feel so much better now! I'd really hate to lose something my father gave me.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#195
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#195
Trail-of-Truth said:
The bible even says some have left the truth (that Jesus is God). My cousin did. She left Christianity to become Muslim. She knew the truth her whole life, into adulthood, but gave it up in order to marry the one she wanted to marry. She chose that husband over God. It can happen, I've seen it with my own eyes. And the bible says if they leave the truth they can never come back. How can you leave some place where you have never been?
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If your sister was in fact "in Christ" ..she may have left a religion but she would still have Christ in her heart. Sometimes we think if people do not continue to go the church that they go to...they have left Jesus. This is not true. She most likely just left the "religion" she was in her whole life. That I can understand.

If she is truly born-again the Lord will woo her to Him as He reveals His true self to her because He is still in her heart.
 
FlSnookman7

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
#196
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#196
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Lloyd: Oh man I'm feeling really bad because I lost the gold watch my father gave me!
Harry: Dummy! You can't lose a gift!
Lloyd: What!?
Harry: Yeah if you lose something that means you never had it in the first place!
Lloyd: Oh wow! I feel so much better now! I'd really hate to lose something my father gave me.
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But he never lost the Father....
 
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Trail-of-Truth

Guest
#198
#198
Grace777x70 said:
If your sister was in fact "in Christ" ..she may have left a religion but she would still have Christ in her heart. Sometimes we think if people do not continue to go the church that they go to...they have left Jesus. This is not true. She most likely just left the "religion" she was in her whole life. That I can understand.

If she is truly born-again the Lord will woo her to Him as He reveals His true self to her because He is still in her heart.
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She's not my sister, she's my cousin, but She left Christ to follow Muhammad. She no longer even calls Christ Lord. If not everyone who calls Him Lord can enter heaven, how can someone who doesn't even call Him Lord enter? The opinion you stated does not match what the bible says. Besides, we are told not to forsake the assembly. The church is the body of Christ- she is no longer IN Christ because she has left His church. The body of the believers in Muhammad is not the body of Christ.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#199
#199
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
This sounds extreme to me. Being faithless doesn't mean loss of justification. It does though require an acknowledgement at some point of being unfaithful. GOD is faithful to us during times of faithlessness.
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◄ 2 Timothy 2:13 ►

New International Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

New Living Translation
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.

English Standard Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.

Berean Study Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Berean Literal Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He is not able to deny Himself.

New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

King James Bible
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself
 
FlSnookman7

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
#200
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#200
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
No man has the father apart from the son.
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Aside from the numerous scriptures saying we are sealed and redeemed and promised, it would help if you knew a little about jewish traditions. In jewish tradition an adopted son has more rights than a natural born son, one of those being he can never be disowned. Since Jesus is a jew and since He upheld the entire law Christians as adopted sons and daughters can never be disowned. I know it is very hard for you to have faith in Jesus but He loves you and will never ever forsake you.
 
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