Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Jesus said, why do you call me "Lord, Lord if you do not what I say?" Jesus gave us commands not so as to be burden to us. Jesus gave us commands to free us. Obeying Jesus is loving God and loving other people. The question you should ask yourself is why on Earth are you so against God's Commands in the New Testament?

Your salvation is contigent on confession and or repentance. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness; 1 John 5:17 says all unrighteousness is sin. Why don't you believe these verses? What do you think they are saying?

Anyways, check out this thread here on the New Testament Commands.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99639-new-testament-commands.html

kennethcadwell · Jan 13, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

What I posted from Luke 6:47 has to do with salvation/eternal life also, as the Lord Jesus clearly says in verse 46 why do you call Him your Lord if you do not do what He said.
Can one still get eternal salvation by denying to follow all that He said, I think not. For that shows as He put forth that if He is your Lord you would do as He said.......

You can not claim Jesus to be your Lord and then deny doing His teachings, yet some continue to want to cancel out part, half, and even all of what He said. All three show no true faith and love in Him of those who do that.

Kerry · Jan 13, 2015

Yes, you can be out of fellowship and still love God. If your faith has been shifted by some doctrine or teaching away from the work of the cross, then you are out of fellowship with God even though you love Him. If continued, may lead to further distance from Him and even being bound by sin.

kennethcadwell · Jan 13, 2015

Kerry said:

Yeah, just go ask the Galatians in the bible as they got deceived into going back to a false doctrine of being justified by the law. Paul tells them they have fallen from God's saving grace....

Kerry · Jan 13, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

God is a jealous God

peacefulbeliever · Jan 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Been over this before . . . How were they born again of the Spirit if the holy Spirit was not given before the day of Pentecost. It is when I posted this:

You responded with something about me being confused. The OT believers were saved by their belief in God and following the law to the best of their ability and that is how they will be judged. We are in the body of Christ . . we are already judged righteous and justified by our being born again of the Spirit. Our works that we build upon our foundation - When our works are revealed by fire - if they are gold, silver, precious stones, they will remain, we shall receive rewards and if our works that we build upon our foundation are wood, hay, or stubble they will be burned and we will suffer loss of rewards but we ourselves will be saved.

What does this mean to you Jason?

Gal. 3:22, 23 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to hem that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. . . .

You do not understand that God is our Father and our relationship with him is as a family called the household of God, the church, the body of Christ. We enter this family by "birth". You say this "birth" can be taken away. What does "birth/born" mean to you? Apparently, you would disown your children for disobedience but you know what . . your "seed" remains in them and they are still yours and your "seed" is corruptible. When we are born of the Spirit . . that "seed" is incorruptible and the holy Spirit abides with us for ever. [John 14:16,17] That is being born again. Then we begin our WALK.

peacefulbeliever · Jan 13, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Were people in the gospels BORN of the Spirit or did the new birth become available at Pentecost?

Kenneth - We believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God - we have eternal life. We believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God - we are born again. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ comes and dwells in us via the gift of holy Spirit - we are saved. We have received our free gift of salvation through faith by God's grace.

After we are saved we begin our WALK which is our FELLOWSHIP.

. . . whew . . . I am getting to the point where I am just repeating myself and this is going no where because people still want to maintain their salvation by their own works. Salvation is a gift from God . . . our WALK is up to us NOT for salvation but for our relationship/fellowship.

Kerry · Jan 13, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

Were people in the gospels BORN of the Spirit or did the new birth become available at Pentecost?

Kenneth - We believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God - we have eternal life. We believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God - we are born again. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ comes and dwells in us via the gift of holy Spirit - we are saved. We have received our free gift of salvation through faith by God's grace.

After we are saved we begin our WALK which is our FELLOWSHIP.

. . . whew . . . I am getting to the point where I am just repeating myself and this is going no where because people still want to maintain their salvation by their own works. Salvation is a gift from God . . . our WALK is up to us NOT for salvation but for our relationship/fellowship.

So I can cheat on my wife cause I'm saved and no matter what I'm saved. Don't tell the first united bank this. It's you and mine secret okay.

Reborn · Jan 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Yes Jason, I believe 'OSAS'.
It's complicated, but once you are saved you are His....forever.
You can backslide because you are only human, even if you do it multiple times, He knows that you will eventually return, making you saved still.
If you claim to be saved and you backslide and never return, or return and backslide multiple times and then never return, then you were never saved in the first place. (

to answer the can we fall out of fellowship question)

Simple as that. Nothing to debate.

See, everyone in life seems to throw around the term "Saved" as if it's something we can put on and off like a shirt.
It it something we have, are and receive, and we can not explain to others what it means to know that we have obtained it.

And Jason...... "Enter the Kingdom of Heaven" ....the rich man?..........that still goes with the definition that I stated. Yes, it can mean that the man will not enter Heaven literally/eventually, but first the rich man will not understand the deeper things of God....which is AT HAND....for the man in the verse trust is in his riches. He will never be able to understand those deeper things about God that will bring us peace while on earth.....true riches.

It's goes deeper brother than you give Jesus credit for.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

BradC said:

Well, if you have a code of ethics (i.e. a sense of right and wrong) whether you speak or not, you are judging.

In fact, in Romans 14, this is talking about about judging according to Holy days and meat and drink. We are not to judge someone in regards to which day they regard as Holy. We are not to judge what a person eats or drinks unless of course it is poison or something silly.

John 7:24 says, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 says, "For what have I to do with judging outsiders (unbelievers)? Is it not those inside the church (believers) whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

1 Corinthians 14:29 says, "Let two or three prophets speak and let the others judge."

As for your reference to Romans 5:1-2 in support of OSAS:

Well, you also have to read Romans 6:1-2 to get the context. For it says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Then in verse 16 it says, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servant to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Then verse 17 says, "that ye were servants of sin." Meaning, we used to be that way, but we are not that way anymore. However, verse 16 does not remove the possibility of presently serving sin, though; And doing such a thing leads unto death.

1 John 5:16 says there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death. Sins that do not lead unto death are sins that will not cause spiritual death such as falling short of the glory of God or making your brother to stumble when you did not realize that you did such a thing. Sins unto death are sins that will cause you not to inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 John 1:9 is tied to 1 John 2:1; This is important to undeerstand because 1 John 2:1 is addressed to the believer in regards to what to do if they sin. There are no chapter breaks in the Bible and the flow of conversation from 1 John 1:9 to 1 John 2:1 has not changed. The person in whom John is writing to with his epistle is believers (Not unbelievers). "We" in 1 John 1:9 is John speaking about himself and all believers. This cannot be a reference to just coming to the faith for the first time. But a continual thing we do with our Lord. For there is no indication in the text here that this is an entrance into God's Kingdom. It is talking about a continued walk with the Lord.

kennethcadwell · Jan 13, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

You can not take and cancel out the people in that the Lord was talking to in gospel books, just because you want to say they were not born of the Spirit yet. That is the wrong approach to going at that.

The Lord was teaching them the milk of the gospel, the first steps that a believer in Him are to take and then gave some insight on the rest of our walk. That He then left up to Paul to give the meat of the word.
But all that the Lord taught in the gospels was for all of us, not just for Israel or those who came before Pentecost........

We know this because most to all of those teachings was given to the Apostles, which He then commissioned to go out and teach the rest of us to obey all that He taught them. Those who teach His words were only for Israel, or those before Pentecost teach falsely. For even after Pentecost the Apostles still carried out those same teachings, they did not do away with them !!!

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

djness said:

Your life is not my life. There are things that I consider to be precious in my personal life with God. Sharing what is precious to those who do not seek to love me but to attack me is not wise. For if I share something good and precious in my life, you and or others will fiind a way to turn it into something ugly. You know, that whole "don't cast your pearls before...." saying in Scripture?

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Kerry said:

What you are saying is that you can have your cake and eat it, too. Meaning you can have God and partake of your sin, too. Your can serve two masters if you like. God and sin. But it doesn't work like that, though. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:6-9 do apply to salvation and not to some so called walk as you woulld like it to be. First, 1 John 1:9 says we are actually cleansed of unrighteousness by confessing. 1 John 5:17 says all unrighteousness is sin. So 1 John 1:9 is saying you are being cleansed of sin if you confess. This runs contrary to the false OSAS teaching that says all your future sin is forgiven magically somehow. Also, OSAS believers claim they have the blood by their belief on Jesus Christ. Yet 1 John 1:7 says the blood only cleanses us from all sin if we walk in the light as he is in the light. Light here is in reference to righteousness and or obedience to God's commands (See 1 John 2:3-6).

God and His Word are incorruptible. You are not incorruptibe. You can still sin and fall into corrupton. So you are not free from being incorruptible. That would be double talk non sense to make such a claim. When a person is born again of incorruptible seed, it is speaking about God's seed. A spiritual regeneration and washing. There is nothing in Scripture that states that a believer cannot fall prey to corruption. I have already provided a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation within this thread.

As for your reference to cute phrases about being born again - again: The reality is that if somebody is dead spiritually, they need a spiritual rebirth, whether they are an unbeliever or whether they are a believer who has backslidden into sin whereby they can be converted back to the faith thru confession or repentance (See James 5:19-20; 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9).

As for your 2 Timothy 4 quote: Well, you can say that you have fought the good fight. That is all fine and dandy. But if you teach that a believer can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, then you are teaching that people can sin and still be saved. So it doesn't matter if you confess your sins and live like a saint or not. Your doctrine is going to place blood on your hands for telling people it is okay that they can think they can be out of fellowship (by sinning) with the thinking they are saved.

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

So evil deeds are not okay for the unbeliever but they are okay for the believer? No, the passage does not say those who do not believe only. It just says those who do come to the light and gives us a reason why. Because their deeds are evil. Please notice that it says, "lest his deeds should be reproved." Look at the verse and the last words you did not bother to highlight. What do you have to reprove someone's deeds for if they can just have an OSAS type belief and make it thru the gates of Paradise? OSAS believers who believe they can sin and still be saved have not come to the light. Many of them do not believe you even need to have your deeds reproved. You are saved by a belief only. But that is not what the Scriptures say, though.

Also, if an unbeliever is categorized as loving darkness because their deeds are were evil, then how can a believer be the same way?

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

As I said before (And which you are ignoring), John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost since his birth (Please see Luke 1:15). So this refutes any false thinking that the Holy Spirit was not given to any Old Testament saints. David in Psalm 51 also asked the Lord not take His Holy Spirit from him when he was repenting of his sins of murder and adultery, too.

As for your reference to Christ: Well, in 1 Peter 1:10-11, it says that the Spirit of Christ who was in the prophets testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ. So Christ was within the prophets. This means that they were regenerated. For God cannot dwell within a spirit that is fallen and depraved. God can only dwell in a spirit that is regenerated. For God hates sin and cannot stand the presence of sin.

In fact, even those who passed thru the red sea drank of the spiritual rock of Jesus Christ (who followed behind them in the red sea).

1 Corinthians 10:1-4

1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

As for your reference to the Judgement Seat of Christ in regards to our works: Well, please take note that there are no individuals present there who do not have no works. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Not that we are saved by works. We are saved by God's grace and in abiding with Christ. Abiding with Christ will naturally yield fruitful results. Meaning, God will do the work in you. This is why the elders cast their crowns down before Jesus in Revelation.

Is God's people (i.e. the Nation of Israel) saved even though they deny Jesus as their Messiah? No. They were cut off. We (the Gentiles) are admonished to continue in his goodness or we too can be cut off. Do you know where it says that in Scripture?

Also, when you read Galatians 3, you also have to read Galatians 5:4 that says if we seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), we are then fallen from grace. Meaning, how can you fall from something that you can't fall from? You can seek to go back to OT Law and fall from God's grace. So OSAS is not true.

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

As I said before (And which you are ignoring), John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost since his birth (Please see Luke 1:15). So this refutes any false thinking that the Holy Spirit was not given to any Old Testament saints. David in Psalm 51 also asked the Lord not take His Holy Spirit from him when he was repenting of his sins of murder and adultery, too.

As for your reference to Christ: Well, in 1 Peter 1:10-11, it says that the Spirit of Christ who was in the prophets testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ. So Christ was within the prophets. This means that they were regenerated. For God cannot dwell within a spirit that is fallen and depraved. God can only dwell in a spirit that is regenerated. For God hates sin and cannot stand the presence of sin.

In fact, even those who passed thru the red sea drank of the spiritual rock of Jesus Christ (who followed behind them in the red sea).

1 Corinthians 10:1-4

1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

As for your reference to the Judgement Seat of Christ in regards to our works: Well, please take note that there are no individuals present there who do not have no works. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Not that we are saved by works. We are saved by God's grace and in abiding with Christ. Abiding with Christ will naturally yield fruitful results. Meaning, God will do the work in you. This is why the elders cast their crowns down before Jesus in Revelation.

Is God's people (i.e. the Nation of Israel) saved even though they deny Jesus as their Messiah? No. They were cut off. We (the Gentiles) are admonished to continue in his goodness or we too can be cut off. Do you know where it says that in Scripture?

Also, when you read Galatians 3, you also have to read Galatians 5:4 that says if we seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), we are then fallen from grace. Meaning, how can you fall from something that you can't fall from? You can seek to go back to OT Law and fall from God's grace. So OSAS is not true.

Side Note: Please take note that I believe God has cast away His people (Israel) for good, though. I believe Israel as a nation will one day repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah sometime shortly before His return.

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

Also, as for the whole once a son always a son type reference:

First, nowhere does Scripture hint or even allude to this type of thinking. In fact, the Scriptures say that the children of the Kingdom will be cast into outer darkness. Second, all sin is ultimately done towards God. So it would be as if your son tried to kill you, your spouse, and your entire family. Do you get it? Would you still feel the same way if your son did kill your entire family; And tried to kill you but you came back to life from off the operating table? Would you still feel the same way? Would you still love him like you did before if you got a phone call shortly afterwards where he said, he is coming to kill you? What if his plan was to kill everyone in America? Would you still feel the same about him? Would you still feel like he was a part of the family?

Granted, we are commanded by God to love and forgiven him, but that does not mean we would have a natural affection for his current behavior or bad character and welcome him home so that he can kill us. For loving a person also is based on a person's character, too. For a smart person does not marry an individual who is constantly being unfaithful towards them; And that is what God is going to do someday in the future. He is going to marry His bride. Do you really think God is going to choose the disloyal and rebellious servant of God to marry? What type of bride does God marry? It is a virgin bride. One who has been faithful.

Read Matthew chapter 7 and ask God to help you to understand it and then think about it.

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Edit:

Meant to say HAS NOT cast away his people (Israel).

Jason0047 · Jan 14, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

I also will take my chances on what the Bible says and NOT what I would want to be true. All those that have Jesus Christ as their Lord are saved . . . They are born again by the Spirit of God . . . they are now indwelt by the holy Spirit. They were born once by corruptible seed but born again of incorruptible seed. They are promised eternal life. They now belong to the household of God as a child of God - that is their standing within the household; the body of Christ.

Then there is our WALK, our relationship and fellowship with God, his Son and with the household of God. Our state within the family can fluctuate - sometimes we will be out of fellowship due to our behavior - Do we lose our position as a son or daughter or our we disciplined, chastised?

Our WALK can be a battle because the flesh lusts after the Spirit and the Spirit lusts after the flesh. We still contend with our "old man" [fleshly, carnal nature] - that is why God tells us to renew our minds and become transformed, to put off the old man with his former conversation - it is corrupt. We are to put on the new man, the inner man, which is created in righteousness and true holiness. The epistles are full of instructions for us to do that pertain with our old man - mortify the deeds of the flesh, put off the old man, etc. If there was to be no difficulty, no warring within our members, no chance for us to sin in our WALK, God would not have taught us through scripture HOW TO WALK. If our flesh as transformed as soon as we were born again, it would be a breeze to walk by the Spirit but our flesh is with us until we die or until we see Jesus face to face and then we will be fully perfected.

Bottom line ANYONE who is truly born again will desire to do good and be pleasing to God, our Father.

Now you are backpeddling. Before you said that a believer can be out fellowship with God (Which implies a sinful lifestyle) and still be saved. So what you just said here above does not mean anything (Unless of course you are having second thoughts about a sin and still be saved type doctrine).

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Yes.

No.

I don't know.

Other (Please explain)

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