Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[MikeHenderson]

What we need to understand about mwc68 and the Roman Catholic Church is where do they believe the Truth comes from.

We Protestants believe and teach that the Truth is only from the Holy Spirit and only from the Scriptures that were given to us by the Holy Spirit.

The Roman Catholic Church believes we receive the Truth from the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures AND through the Unwritten Traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.

We believe there is only one source for the Truth. The Roman Catholic Church believes there are TWO sources for the Truth. This is why mwc68 rejects all the Scriptures we show him.

The Roman Catholic Church believes that since their UNWRITTEN Tradition teaches that Mary was sinless trumps the Scriptures that say Mary was a sinner. In other words their UNWRITTEN Tradition of Mary Is the only source the Roman Catholic Church needs to prove that Mary was sinless.

Do you see how this works? Since its claimed by the Roman Catholic Church that Unwritten Traditions have equal weight on the source of Truth, they can therefore ignore what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures and accept the Unwritten tradition that Mary was sinless.

This is what we are fighting against today and this is exactly what the Protestants were fighting against about 400 years ago.

This is nothing new with the Roman Catholic Church. All the Doctrines about Mary in the last 160 years are based on the fact the Roman Catholic Church uses Unwritten Traditions to justify their right to Worship Mary.

 

[mwc68]

We do teach that we are heirs with Christ

 

[Pumicestone]

I'm no Catholic - but I really don't think they "worship" Mary.

 

[mwc68]

What we need to understand about mwc68 and the Roman Catholic Church is where do they believe the Truth comes from.

We Protestants believe and teach that the Truth is only from the Holy Spirit and only from the Scriptures that were given to us by the Holy Spirit.

The Roman Catholic Church believes we receive the Truth from the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures AND through the Unwritten Traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.

We believe there is only one source for the Truth. The Roman Catholic Church believes there are TWO sources for the Truth. This is why mwc68 rejects all the Scriptures we show him.

The Roman Catholic Church believes that since their UNWRITTEN Tradition teaches that Mary was sinless trumps the Scriptures that say Mary was a sinner. In other words their UNWRITTEN Tradition of Mary Is the only source the Roman Catholic Church needs to prove that Mary was sinless.

Do you see how this works? Since its claimed by the Roman Catholic Church that Unwritten Traditions have equal weight on the source of Truth, they can therefore ignore what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures and accept the Unwritten tradition that Mary was sinless.

This is what we are fighting against today and this is exactly what the Protestants were fighting against about 400 years ago.

This is nothing new with the Roman Catholic Church. All the Doctrines about Mary in the last 160 years are based on the fact the Roman Catholic Church uses Unwritten Traditions to justify their right to Worship Mary.

This is why you have over 30,000different denominations all claiming the Holy Spirit is guiding them. You have no authority in interpretation and we get the mess yall have created

 

[MikeHenderson]

By what right mwc68 do you have to reject what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures to accept the lies in your Unwritten Traditions?

In the Scriptures Paul did say to keep the Traditions. Where in the Jewish Faith or in the teachings of the First Christians did they ever have a Tradition that said Mary was sinless? Show me where the First Century Christians ever taught that Mary was sinless? Did Paul ever say Mary was sinless? Did Peter ever say Mary was sinless?

As far as i know nowhere in any writings did Paul or Peter or any other Disciple ever teach that Mary was sinless.

 

[mwc68]

Name one Scripture that says Mary personally was a sinner. St. Paul talked of original sin, which Mary was saved from because God put emnity between Her and satan

 

[MikeHenderson]

Actually its the Roman Catholic Church that has no Authority in the interpretation of the Scriptures!

Because of all their Unwritten Traditions that oppose the Truth in the Scriptures is why the Roman Catholic Church has no authority to interpret the Scriptures by themselves.

Yes we do have a lot of different denominations but they all teach its the Scriptures from the Holy Spirit that have the Truth. We do not teach that things that were never written down have equal authority in the Truth. After all any fool can write down a Tradition and say it has the Truth from God.

Its not what men say in the Roman Catholic Church that counts, its what God says in the Inspired Scriptures that count mwc68. Until you understand you are being lied to by the Roman Catholic Church you will never have the Truth in you.

 

[valiant]

Name one Scripture that says Mary personally was a sinner. St. Paul talked of original sin, which Mary was saved from because God put emnity between Her and satan

Name one Scripture that says I am a sinner. Your statement is foolish. The Bible is not that personal. Mary was not seen as important enough to be singled out. The Scripture says ALL (including Mary and Valiant) have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The Scripture says, 'there is NONE good, no not one'.

And we know that Mary sinned when she failed to ensure that He was with them when they left Jerusalem. SHE LEFT HER CHILD TO LOOK AFTER HIMSELF WITHOUT PROTECTION THROUGH CARELESSNESS. She sinned again when she tried to interfere in His Messianic ministry and went to force Him to return home (Mark 3.21, 31-35). Mary was certainly a sinner.

There is enmity between me and Satan. That does not mean I am not a sinner. your argument is total nonsense.

where does Paul say that Mary was not involved in original sin? He DID NOT

 

[valiant]

This is why you have over 30,000different denominations all claiming the Holy Spirit is guiding them. You have no authority in interpretation and we get the mess yall have created

Name the 30,000 denominations or be branded a liar!!!

 

[MikeHenderson]

Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."

The Holy Spirit in these verses is saying that ALL are under sin.

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

The Holy Spirit in this verse is saying that ALL have sinned. All also includes Mary mwc68.

All - the whole, entire, total amount, quantity,every person.

The Holy Spirit also says the ONLY sinless person was Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Clearly here the Holy Spirit says Jesus was without sin. Where in the Scriptures mwc68 does the Holy Spirit say Mary was without sin?

 

[mwc68]

Since yall worship a book instead of God, what about the end of St. John's Gospel where he admits they could not write it all down for the world could not contain the books. We have Sacred Tradition taught by the Apostles. This is a fact not an opinion. Yall don't even teach all of the bible. yall took out 7 books against the warning in Rev. How you can keep saying you follow the bible when you don't even have the whole thing?

 

[MikeHenderson]

I know why you do this mwc68 its because you are trying by you own efforts by your own good works to be Justified in the sight of God.

No one can ever by Justified by his own efforts mwc68. To be Justified before God means we have to be sinless when we stand before God counting on been Justified by our works.

We cannot do this, not even Mary.

Therefore its by Jesus Christ who Justifies us by His works on the Cross that we CAN stand before God sinless!

Until you understand this mwc68 you never will be able to stand before God.

This is another Doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. That a person can be Justified by his works and his faith and not by Faith only.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches its by our faith in ourselves and by our good works that we become Justified. Notice how the Roman Catholic Church left God out in the cold?

Everything is by their own efforts and by their own good works that allows them to enter into Heaven. Its a shame the Roman Catholic Church leaves God out of the equation.

 

[valiant]

Since yall worship a book instead of God, what about the end of St. John's Gospel where he admits they could not write it all down for the world could not contain the books. We have Sacred Tradition taught by the Apostles. This is a fact not an opinion. Yall don't even teach all of the bible. yall took out 7 books against the warning in Rev. How you can keep saying you follow the bible when you don't even have the whole thing?

well we followed Jesus' advice. He never accepted those seven mythical books. If it is a FACT that you have sacred tradition from the Apostles PROVE IT. If you cannot it is an opinion, and a poor one at that. Or don't you know the difference?

 

[notuptome]

Since yall worship a book instead of God, what about the end of St. John's Gospel where he admits they could not write it all down for the world could not contain the books. We have Sacred Tradition taught by the Apostles. This is a fact not an opinion. Yall don't even teach all of the bible. yall took out 7 books against the warning in Rev. How you can keep saying you follow the bible when you don't even have the whole thing?

You are simply speaking as one who has no sense of the truth. Jesus quoted the OT scriptures many times and confirmed the authority and authenticity of the scriptures.

The traditions you speak of that the apostles taught were Jewish traditions not RCC traditions. The seven books rejected are rejected because they teach contradictions with the other sixty six books.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mwc68]

I know why you do this mwc68 its because you are trying by you own efforts by your own good works to be Justified in the sight of God.

No one can ever by Justified by his own efforts mwc68. To be Justified before God means we have to be sinless when we stand before God counting on been Justified by our works.

We cannot do this, not even Mary.

Therefore its by Jesus Christ who Justifies us by His works on the Cross that we CAN stand before God sinless!

Until you understand this mwc68 you never will be able to stand before God.

This is another Doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. That a person can be Justified by his works and his faith and not by Faith only.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches its by our faith in ourselves and by our good works that we become Justified. Notice how the Roman Catholic Church left God out in the cold?

Everything is by their own efforts and by their own good works that allows them to enter into Heaven. Its a shame the Roman Catholic Church leaves God out of the equation.

St James wrote "faith without works is dead" Nuff said

 

[MikeHenderson]

Again mwc68 you misquote what the Scriptures say.

John 21:25
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other THINGS that Jesus DID, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

Clearly the Holy Spirit says it was the things that Jesus did, like healing the sick, feeding the people, that could not be contained in the Bible. It does NOT say that all the Truths from God could not be contained in the Bible.

Why mwc68 do you accept this verse as the Truth but yet reject ever verse that contradicts what the Roman Catholic Church teaches?

Yes we do have scared Tradition taught by the Apostles. Show me where the Apostles ever taught that the Tradition that Mary was sinless!

Its not there mwc68. It was an Unwritten Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church only and not from the Apostles.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Again mwc68 you misquote what the Scriptures say.

James is saying we cannot claim to have received Salvation if we refuse to do good works. We do good works not for faith, we do good works because we have Faith!

We do good works because by Faith we have received Salvation. We do not do good works to receive Salvation like the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

You can tell if a person is a Child of God by looking at his works. This is what James is teaching.

If you have Faith, and if you have received Salvation, you will do good works to show that you are a Child of God.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Jesus also said mwc68:

John 14:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So why are you trying to go through Mary to reach the Father if Jesus is the only way?

Like you said:Nuff said.

 

[mwc68]

The only heresy I've seen here is how yall treat other Christians that don't agree with yall

 

[valiant]

I'm no Catholic - but I really don't think they "worship" Mary.

1. 1. Delivery Prayer To Mary Hymns Bakti, 1991, No. 52
      

1. 1. Holy Mary, Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, thou art Queen's noblest. so good you became queen of us all. Show (Tunjukanlah) to us the path to holiness and guide us so as not to get lost.
      Take charge of our mind, so we're just looking for the right.
      We will be over, so we just want good.
      Take charge of our hearts, that we love one another as a brother.
      Overcome ourselves each and all family members.
      Overcome all members of society, every nation and world dignitaries.
      May they strap you into them all in a firm unity.
      Overcome all mankind.
      Open to the path of faith for those who are not familiar with your Son, Jesus.
      Help for all nations to have a united, harmonious and peaceful life.
      Watch over (Naungilah) all mankind, especially the persecuted and hounded.
      They bear it in oppression and enlighten those in darkness, in order to remain faithful to Jesus, your son.
      Present (Hantarlah) all our petition to thy Son, the Maharaja, king of peace, where every prayer of the petition is granted, every load lightened hearts and infirmities healed.
      I hope people who know His power and put hope in Him. occasionally see the royal splendor of thy Son, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit lives and power, now and all time. Amen​
2. 
   
   1. Gregory XVI., in 1832,​
      Says, in his Encyclical Letter [MIRARI VOS], published August 15th of that year: † "But that all things may have a prosperous and happy issue, let us raise our eyes and hands to the most holy Virgin Mary, who only destroys all heresies, who is our greatest hope; yea, the entire ground of our hope.​
      Prayer to the Blessed Virgin​
      Most Holy and Immaculate Virgin! O my Mother! Thou who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the advocate, hope, and refuge of sinners! I, the most wretched among them, now come to thee. I worship thee, great Queen, and give thee thanks for the many favors thou hast bestowed on my in the past; most of all do I thank thee for having saved me from hell, which I had so often deserved. I love thee, Lady most worthy of all love, and, by the love which I bear thee, I promise ever in the future to serve thee, and to do what in me lies to win others to thy love. In thee I put all my trust, all my hope of salvation. Receive me as thy servant, and cover me with the mantle of thy protection, thou who art the Mother of mercy! And since thou hast so much power with God, deliver me from all temptations, or at least obtain for me the grace ever to overcome them. From thee I ask a true love of Jesus Christ, and the grace of a happy death. O my Mother! By thy love for God I beseech thee to be at all times my helper, but above all at the last moment of my life. Leave me not until thou seest me safe in heaven, there for endless ages to bless thee and sing thy praises. Such is my hope. Amen.― (Prayer of St. Alphonse Liguori, 3 yrs indulgence,Raccolta, 342)​
   
   
   1. 
      
   
   
   1. (Bull Ineffabilis Deus 1854)​
      18. It is therefore, a pleasure for us, a full century having passed since the Pontiff of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly proclaimed this singular privilege of the Virgin Mother of God, to summarize the whole doctrinal position and conclude in these words of the same Pontiff, asserting that this doctrine "vouched for in Sacred Scripture according to the interpretation of the Fathers, is handed down by them in so many of their important writings, is expressed and celebrated in so many illustrious monuments of renowned antiquity, and proposed and confirmed by the greatest and highest decision of the Church", so that to pastors and faithful there is nothing "more sweet, nothing dearer than to worship, venerate, invoke and praise with ardent affection the Mother of God conceived without stain of original sin.” (Ibidem.)​
   
   
   
   
   
   
   1. 1. 1. Fulgens corona​
            This is an encyclical by Pope Pius XII, written in 1953, on the Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and proclaims a Marian year for 1954, to commemorate the centenary of the definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary.​
   
   
   
   
   
   1. 33. But where - as is the case in almost all dioceses, there exists a church in which the Virgin Mother of God is worshipped with more intense devotion, thither on stated days let pilgrims flock together in great numbers and publicly and in the open give glorious expression to their common Faith and their common love toward the Virgin Most Holy. ...​
      34. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman people; but the greatest without doubt is the Liberian Basilica [St. Mary Major], in which the mosaics of Our predecessor of pious memory, Sixtus III, still glisten, an outstanding monument to the Divine maternity of the Virgin Mary, and in which the "salvation of the Roman people" (Salus Populi Romani) benignly smiles.​
      Source:

      

      FULGENS CORONA, Encyclical Of Pope PIUS XII, September 8th, 1953.
      
      

      

      
      ​
   Pretty good indication of worship?