Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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K

kenthomas27

Guest

It was a simple two part question. You neglected in answering it in full. Try again plz:)
Hi blondie. I could probably try to answer your question, but it would be short and probably wouldn't help you understand exactly how Exodus 20 is studied. Yours is a very common misunderstanding for Protestants and the best answer I've read comes from Tim Staples who was a Southern Baptist who eventually converted to Catholicism. If you want to read it I think it might help. He says....

My mother recently sent me an email from a friend who was being challenged by an Evangelical to re-consider her Catholicism. He claimed the Catholic Church had perniciously omitted what he referred to as the second commandment—“You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” (Exodus 20:4)—in order to keep the Catholic faithful in darkness as to the truth that they should not have statues in their churches.
Despite appearances, we know Exodus 20 is not a prohibition against making “any likeness of anything” in a strict sense because we clearly see God either commanding or praising the making of images and statues in multiple biblical texts (see Exodus 25:18; Numbers 21:8-9; I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). Just five chapters after this so-called prohibition against statues, for example, God commands Moses to make statues representing two angels to be placed over the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant:
And you shall make two cherubim of gold… The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another…. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark… There I will meet with you (Ex. 25:18-22).
There are five key points to be made concerning this common misunderstanding among Protestants as well as many quasi-Christian sects.
1. Exodus 20:4 is part of the first commandment that begins in verse 3 and stretches through part of verse five:
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
Verses 3 and 5 make clear that this commandment is not simply condemning making statues; It is condemning making gods that youbow down to or serve. In a word, this first commandment forbidsidolatry, i.e., the worship of anything or anyone other than God. The Catholic Church condemns this as well.
2. By lifting out part of the first commandment appearing to prohibit the making of “any likeness of anything,” not only do you have God contradicting himself in later commanding the making of statues, but you also end up making the first two commandments repetitive. They are both essentially condemning idolatry.
3. Though the commandments are said to be “ten” in Exodus 34:28, they are not numbered by the inspired authors of Sacred Scripture. If you count the “you shall nots” along with the two positive commandments of keeping holy the Sabbath and honoring father and mother, you end up with 13 commandments. So the actual numbering of the commandments depends upon which “you shall nots” you lump together as one commandment and which ones you separate. And in the end, which “you shall nots” you lump together depends upon your theology.
4. We believe the Catholic Church alone has the authority to give to God’s people an authoritative list of the Ten Commandments. And the Catechism of the Catholic Church does exactly that. At least, it gives us a list as a sure norm for us.
5. The problem with creating a second “commandment” where there actually is not one really comes to the fore at the bottom of the list. The common Protestant listing of the Ten Commandments combines coveting your neighbor’s wife, the Catholic ninth commandment, with coveting your neighbor’s property, the Catholic tenth commandment. And really it just can't be any other way because you run out of room. I can’t imagine many women being happy with being equated to property!
Some may argue at this point: “Well, that is what the Old Testament teaches. We're just going with what the inspired author teaches." Are you really? Let’s take a look. Now, it is true that Exodus 20’s version of the 10 commandments appears to place both women and servants in the place of property.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
I say it seems because Genesis 1:26-27 does reveal God himself to have said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” There is an essential equality between male and female revealed even in the Old Testament, though this revelation is not as clear and unambiguous as what we have in the New Testament. Exodus 20 certainly does anything but add to the clarity of the point.
When I say the revelation of this essential equality is not as clear in the Old Testament, we need to understand why this is so. The Old Testament consists of 46 books written over a period of ca. 1500 years, representing a progressive revelation. Hebrews 1:1-2 says, “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets.” The Greek word for “many ways” is polumeros, which means “in many portions;” God gave his revelation in piecemeal fashion over the centuries, taking an ancient people right where they were and gradually beginning to reveal more and more truth as they were able to receive it and as he gradually gave them more and more grace to be able to receive it, all the while respecting their freedom. “But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son…” (Galatians 4:4) to communicate the fullness of the revelation God willed for his people.
For example, the divorce God permitted in Deut. 24:1-4, he later says “[he] hates” in Malachi 2:16. And when Jesus elevated marriage to the level of sacrament eliminating divorce and remarriage absolutely in Matt. 19:5-6, he explained that this allowance by God through Moses was never intended from the very beginning citing Genesis 2:24, “the two shall become one flesh.” God permitted things early that he would not have ever willed in an antecedent sense as he helped his people to grow much like a parent does not treat a four year-old the same as he would treat a fourteen year-old.
In a similar way, though God revealed the essential equality of man and woman very early in salvation history (Gen. 1:26-27), this revelation was given by God to an ancient people who did not have the same understanding of the essential equality of man and woman we so often take for granted given the fullness of revelation we have enjoyed in the New Covenant for 2,000 years. God did not expect his people to change immediately, nor did he give them the fullness of the revelation that we have in Christ all at once; rather, he helped them along as we’ve said. In fact, we can see this development of understanding even in the Old Testament itself. We cited the earlier version of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, but notice the change by the time God gave his people Deuteronomy:
Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox. Or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
The inspired author of Deuteronomy now makes the distinction between wife and property sharper by using two different Hebrew words for “covet” and “desire” and by only using the word “covet” with regard to the wife. The two separate commandments now become undeniable.
We’ll leave the discussion of the status of the servants for another blog post!
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Hi blondie. I could probably try to answer your question, but it would be short and probably wouldn't help you understand exactly how Exodus 20 is studied. Yours is a very common misunderstanding for Protestants and the best answer I've read comes from Tim Staples who was a Southern Baptist who eventually converted to Catholicism. If you want to read it I think it might help. He says....

My mother recently sent me an email from a friend who was being challenged by an Evangelical to re-consider her Catholicism. He claimed the Catholic Church had perniciously omitted what he referred to as the second commandment—“You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” (Exodus 20:4)—in order to keep the Catholic faithful in darkness as to the truth that they should not have statues in their churches.
Despite appearances, we know Exodus 20 is not a prohibition against making “any likeness of anything” in a strict sense because we clearly see God either commanding or praising the making of images and statues in multiple biblical texts (see Exodus 25:18; Numbers 21:8-9; I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). Just five chapters after this so-called prohibition against statues, for example, God commands Moses to make statues representing two angels to be placed over the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant:
And you shall make two cherubim of gold… The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another…. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark… There I will meet with you (Ex. 25:18-22).
There are five key points to be made concerning this common misunderstanding among Protestants as well as many quasi-Christian sects.
1. Exodus 20:4 is part of the first commandment that begins in verse 3 and stretches through part of verse five:
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
Verses 3 and 5 make clear that this commandment is not simply condemning making statues; It is condemning making gods that youbow down to or serve. In a word, this first commandment forbidsidolatry, i.e., the worship of anything or anyone other than God. The Catholic Church condemns this as well.
2. By lifting out part of the first commandment appearing to prohibit the making of “any likeness of anything,” not only do you have God contradicting himself in later commanding the making of statues, but you also end up making the first two commandments repetitive. They are both essentially condemning idolatry.
3. Though the commandments are said to be “ten” in Exodus 34:28, they are not numbered by the inspired authors of Sacred Scripture. If you count the “you shall nots” along with the two positive commandments of keeping holy the Sabbath and honoring father and mother, you end up with 13 commandments. So the actual numbering of the commandments depends upon which “you shall nots” you lump together as one commandment and which ones you separate. And in the end, which “you shall nots” you lump together depends upon your theology.
4. We believe the Catholic Church alone has the authority to give to God’s people an authoritative list of the Ten Commandments. And the Catechism of the Catholic Church does exactly that. At least, it gives us a list as a sure norm for us.
5. The problem with creating a second “commandment” where there actually is not one really comes to the fore at the bottom of the list. The common Protestant listing of the Ten Commandments combines coveting your neighbor’s wife, the Catholic ninth commandment, with coveting your neighbor’s property, the Catholic tenth commandment. And really it just can't be any other way because you run out of room. I can’t imagine many women being happy with being equated to property!
Some may argue at this point: “Well, that is what the Old Testament teaches. We're just going with what the inspired author teaches." Are you really? Let’s take a look. Now, it is true that Exodus 20’s version of the 10 commandments appears to place both women and servants in the place of property.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
I say it seems because Genesis 1:26-27 does reveal God himself to have said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” There is an essential equality between male and female revealed even in the Old Testament, though this revelation is not as clear and unambiguous as what we have in the New Testament. Exodus 20 certainly does anything but add to the clarity of the point.
When I say the revelation of this essential equality is not as clear in the Old Testament, we need to understand why this is so. The Old Testament consists of 46 books written over a period of ca. 1500 years, representing a progressive revelation. Hebrews 1:1-2 says, “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets.” The Greek word for “many ways” is polumeros, which means “in many portions;” God gave his revelation in piecemeal fashion over the centuries, taking an ancient people right where they were and gradually beginning to reveal more and more truth as they were able to receive it and as he gradually gave them more and more grace to be able to receive it, all the while respecting their freedom. “But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son…” (Galatians 4:4) to communicate the fullness of the revelation God willed for his people.
For example, the divorce God permitted in Deut. 24:1-4, he later says “[he] hates” in Malachi 2:16. And when Jesus elevated marriage to the level of sacrament eliminating divorce and remarriage absolutely in Matt. 19:5-6, he explained that this allowance by God through Moses was never intended from the very beginning citing Genesis 2:24, “the two shall become one flesh.” God permitted things early that he would not have ever willed in an antecedent sense as he helped his people to grow much like a parent does not treat a four year-old the same as he would treat a fourteen year-old.
In a similar way, though God revealed the essential equality of man and woman very early in salvation history (Gen. 1:26-27), this revelation was given by God to an ancient people who did not have the same understanding of the essential equality of man and woman we so often take for granted given the fullness of revelation we have enjoyed in the New Covenant for 2,000 years. God did not expect his people to change immediately, nor did he give them the fullness of the revelation that we have in Christ all at once; rather, he helped them along as we’ve said. In fact, we can see this development of understanding even in the Old Testament itself. We cited the earlier version of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, but notice the change by the time God gave his people Deuteronomy:
Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox. Or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
The inspired author of Deuteronomy now makes the distinction between wife and property sharper by using two different Hebrew words for “covet” and “desire” and by only using the word “covet” with regard to the wife. The two separate commandments now become undeniable.
We’ll leave the discussion of the status of the servants for another blog post!

The question was not directed at you . It was extremely presumptuous of you to interrupt. I do not need your full page long drawn out catholic antichrist explanation. I didnt bother to read it. Why would I? Plz respect that I was asking MWC68 and not you. ty:)
 
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K

KennethC

Guest
Of course the bible. The assumption is wrong on infallibility
There is no assumption in that question, and I am glad you said the bible over the pope.
But that then does lead to another question and that is if you would believe the bible over the pope, then why is there other things that the pope has said that you follow over what the bible says ???

All I want to understand is your stance in the Lord and where you place His word, because the word/scriptures should always come before what any man says no matter what position they hold.

Remember in Revelation 2:2 it says some in the last days will claim to be Apostles but they are not because of their deceptive deeds of adding or taking away from His word.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Nov 14, 2012
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It was a simple two part question. You neglected in answering it in full. Try again plz:)
Which part did I miss? I did throw in my commentary. The question again please, I thought you wanted me to quote from Exodus 20 (omg a catholic that can look up stuff in the bible!!!!) I'm just kidding, tryin to lighten up
 
Feb 6, 2015
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You know, I actually laughed out loud when I read your first paragraph. The same tired old Catholic assertion that "they" gave "us" the Bible.
What else could you do but laugh, (out of frustation that is) because you can't or won't ascertain historically documented truth. Now Budman, (is that your username for the partaking of the "king of beers?") if "you' don't beleive it was the Catholic Church that compiled the bible, maybe you can enlighten all of us with historic documentation on who did! Your own Martin Luther seemed to know who did, when he wrote in his Commentary on St. John: "We are compelled to concede to the Papists (Catholics) that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all." So are you calling the father of your own reformation a liar?


I started to answer your post, but then the thought hit me; you are a great evader.
You evade answering the hard questions, instead, letting the thread progress until the questions are buried by posts, and then go after subjects you feel secure in answering.
I have evaded nada mi amigo. I just get tired of answering your alls same ol' frivolous questions over and over again just because my answers fail to coincide with your fallacious anti-Catholic agenda.


But guess what? I'm not answering your posts until you answer what I brought up awhile back - and you avoided like the plague.
Ha-ha.... now thats funny!!! You mean kinda like when I've been askin you to show me where it says in Scripture that the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith. Just one passage.... thats all I'm askin!!! But nooooooooo...... you and the rest of your minions have been avoiding that like the plague! So don't you be playing the "your avoiding the question" card with me! sheesh..... {rolling eyes}


To quote myself:: Also, you failed to answer me as to why your Pope would show "respect" for a religion, and a book (Koran) that is literally leading over a billion people to hell.
I beleive I have, but for you sake, read on.

Do you "respect" the Koran and Islam, Ford?"Respect" being your word as to why your Pope would kiss the satanically inspired Koran.
Because of your narrow-minded nature budman, you may find this difficult to comprehend, but try to follow along..... okay. The bottom line is the Pope was making a gesture of respect to Islam and the people of Iraq. Now i know you Pope haters see in this gesture all sorts of wild phantasms of your own imagining and, like a Sunday afternoon armchair quarterbacks, are eager to give free punditry on the alleged sinister meaning of this gesture.

Something else you Pope-haters, (due to your narrow-mindedness) fail to see is that our Catholic patriarch whose flock actually lived/lives in a country under Islamic rule and who is a bit closer to knowledge of the situation of the Church in the Islamic world than you anti-Catholic couch potatoes at your computer keyborads might think that first off, in no way signaled the abandonment of the Gospel by John Paul II. And secondly, that the Muslims understood it as nothing more than the gesture of respect that it was. No..... we'll leave that up to you and your cohorts.



So, put your money where your mouth is, and answer it. Then we'll move on from there.
So there you go, even though you may not like it.... I answerd your question!

So now, how about you put your money where your mouth is and answer my questions?

1. Isn't lying considerd a sin to you?

2. Show me where it says in Scripture that the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith?

3. Do you agree with Lk.1:48, and do you practice what it says to do, and when was the last time you heard your Pastor preach on this passage or studied it in your bible studies? for starters.
 
*Pax Christi
 

"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." Luke 1:4


 
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Ill answer for you Budman.

Romans 10:17

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:5
So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Colossians 3:16
Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.

Hebrews 4:2
For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.




And lest we forget this one especially for you> the idol worshiping catholic who conveniently removed the 2nd commandment:

Duet 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
 
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Nov 14, 2012
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Hi blondie. I could probably try to answer your question, but it would be short and probably wouldn't help you understand exactly how Exodus 20 is studied. Yours is a very common misunderstanding for Protestants and the best answer I've read comes from Tim Staples who was a Southern Baptist who eventually converted to Catholicism. If you want to read it I think it might help. He says....

My mother recently sent me an email from a friend who was being challenged by an Evangelical to re-consider her Catholicism. He claimed the Catholic Church had perniciously omitted what he referred to as the second commandment—“You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” (Exodus 20:4)—in order to keep the Catholic faithful in darkness as to the truth that they should not have statues in their churches.
Despite appearances, we know Exodus 20 is not a prohibition against making “any likeness of anything” in a strict sense because we clearly see God either commanding or praising the making of images and statues in multiple biblical texts (see Exodus 25:18; Numbers 21:8-9; I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). Just five chapters after this so-called prohibition against statues, for example, God commands Moses to make statues representing two angels to be placed over the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant:
And you shall make two cherubim of gold… The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another…. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark… There I will meet with you (Ex. 25:18-22).
There are five key points to be made concerning this common misunderstanding among Protestants as well as many quasi-Christian sects.
1. Exodus 20:4 is part of the first commandment that begins in verse 3 and stretches through part of verse five:
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
Verses 3 and 5 make clear that this commandment is not simply condemning making statues; It is condemning making gods that youbow down to or serve. In a word, this first commandment forbidsidolatry, i.e., the worship of anything or anyone other than God. The Catholic Church condemns this as well.
2. By lifting out part of the first commandment appearing to prohibit the making of “any likeness of anything,” not only do you have God contradicting himself in later commanding the making of statues, but you also end up making the first two commandments repetitive. They are both essentially condemning idolatry.
3. Though the commandments are said to be “ten” in Exodus 34:28, they are not numbered by the inspired authors of Sacred Scripture. If you count the “you shall nots” along with the two positive commandments of keeping holy the Sabbath and honoring father and mother, you end up with 13 commandments. So the actual numbering of the commandments depends upon which “you shall nots” you lump together as one commandment and which ones you separate. And in the end, which “you shall nots” you lump together depends upon your theology.
4. We believe the Catholic Church alone has the authority to give to God’s people an authoritative list of the Ten Commandments. And the Catechism of the Catholic Church does exactly that. At least, it gives us a list as a sure norm for us.
5. The problem with creating a second “commandment” where there actually is not one really comes to the fore at the bottom of the list. The common Protestant listing of the Ten Commandments combines coveting your neighbor’s wife, the Catholic ninth commandment, with coveting your neighbor’s property, the Catholic tenth commandment. And really it just can't be any other way because you run out of room. I can’t imagine many women being happy with being equated to property!
Some may argue at this point: “Well, that is what the Old Testament teaches. We're just going with what the inspired author teaches." Are you really? Let’s take a look. Now, it is true that Exodus 20’s version of the 10 commandments appears to place both women and servants in the place of property.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
I say it seems because Genesis 1:26-27 does reveal God himself to have said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” There is an essential equality between male and female revealed even in the Old Testament, though this revelation is not as clear and unambiguous as what we have in the New Testament. Exodus 20 certainly does anything but add to the clarity of the point.
When I say the revelation of this essential equality is not as clear in the Old Testament, we need to understand why this is so. The Old Testament consists of 46 books written over a period of ca. 1500 years, representing a progressive revelation. Hebrews 1:1-2 says, “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets.” The Greek word for “many ways” is polumeros, which means “in many portions;” God gave his revelation in piecemeal fashion over the centuries, taking an ancient people right where they were and gradually beginning to reveal more and more truth as they were able to receive it and as he gradually gave them more and more grace to be able to receive it, all the while respecting their freedom. “But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son…” (Galatians 4:4) to communicate the fullness of the revelation God willed for his people.
For example, the divorce God permitted in Deut. 24:1-4, he later says “[he] hates” in Malachi 2:16. And when Jesus elevated marriage to the level of sacrament eliminating divorce and remarriage absolutely in Matt. 19:5-6, he explained that this allowance by God through Moses was never intended from the very beginning citing Genesis 2:24, “the two shall become one flesh.” God permitted things early that he would not have ever willed in an antecedent sense as he helped his people to grow much like a parent does not treat a four year-old the same as he would treat a fourteen year-old.
In a similar way, though God revealed the essential equality of man and woman very early in salvation history (Gen. 1:26-27), this revelation was given by God to an ancient people who did not have the same understanding of the essential equality of man and woman we so often take for granted given the fullness of revelation we have enjoyed in the New Covenant for 2,000 years. God did not expect his people to change immediately, nor did he give them the fullness of the revelation that we have in Christ all at once; rather, he helped them along as we’ve said. In fact, we can see this development of understanding even in the Old Testament itself. We cited the earlier version of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, but notice the change by the time God gave his people Deuteronomy:
Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox. Or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
The inspired author of Deuteronomy now makes the distinction between wife and property sharper by using two different Hebrew words for “covet” and “desire” and by only using the word “covet” with regard to the wife. The two separate commandments now become undeniable.
We’ll leave the discussion of the status of the servants for another blog post!
Very well put! Thank You Brother! :)
 
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
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Ill answer for you Budman.

Romans 10:17

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:5
So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Colossians 3:16
Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.

Hebrews 4:2
For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.




And lest we forget this one especially for you> the idol worshiping catholic who conveniently removed the 2nd commandment:

Duet 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
I totally believe all of these!!!!:)
 
S

Standing

Guest
Christians only have 2 commandments now as Jesus said:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.
And love your neighbour as yourself."

This is it coz Jesus said so! Why would anyone go against that!

When you keep going back into the old laws of Moses then you keep on making the whole point of Jesus' death and resurrection invalid. How do you think He will react to that?

Followers of the Way of Jesus are not under the law of old - that is of the oldman not the new, and Jesus took the oldman law away and gave us 2 new covenants.

Please Stop it beloved.

Father I pray that this nonsense will cease. In Jesus mighty name. Amen.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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There is no assumption in that question, and I am glad you said the bible over the pope.
But that then does lead to another question and that is if you would believe the bible over the pope, then why is there other things that the pope has said that you follow over what the bible says ???

All I want to understand is your stance in the Lord and where you place His word, because the word/scriptures should always come before what any man says no matter what position they hold.

Remember in Revelation 2:2 it says some in the last days will claim to be Apostles but they are not because of their deceptive deeds of adding or taking away from His word.
I agree that he has said some outrageous things. Doesn't mean doctrine is in jeopardy. He can still speak his mind and remember he is human too, prone to mistakes. I value the holy bible. I believe it is the inspired Word of God. I place the Word of God over the Pope
 
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Nov 14, 2012
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Christians only have 2 commandments now as Jesus said:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.
And love your neighbour as yourself."

This is it coz Jesus said so! Why would anyone go against that!

When you keep going back into the old laws of Moses then you keep on making the whole point of Jesus' death and resurrection invalid. How do you think He will react to that?

Followers of the Way of Jesus are not under the law of old - that is of the oldman not the new, and Jesus took the oldman law away and gave us 2 new covenants.

Please Stop it beloved.

Father I pray that this nonsense will cease. In Jesus mighty name. Amen.
Oh I know, Thank God we are not under the Law
 
Nov 14, 2012
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The question was not directed at you . It was extremely presumptuous of you to interrupt. I do not need your full page long drawn out catholic antichrist explanation. I didnt bother to read it. Why would I? Plz respect that I was asking MWC68 and not you. ty:)
Really blondie? That's not very nice. I like his post. I think he said it better than I could have! ;)
 
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Fordman, you do know the Scriptures came from God?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Bible was given to us from God fordman, so why are you teaching the Scriptures came from the corrupted Roman Catholic Church?

The Roman Catholic Church did NOT give us the Bible, IT WAS GOD who gave us the Bible fordman!

Could it be fordman you are doing the will of Satan by claiming it was not God who gave us the Scriptures???