Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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1still_waters

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1still_waters

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Or she is perfect in Heaven as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Heaven is timeless. That is a Catholic belief.
I already stated that according to Scripture those in Heaven are aware what is happening down here. The Holy Spirit said through Paul that we are constantly surrounded by "a cloud of witnesses."
She's perfect exactly like how God is perfect?
 
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So you dedicate your lives to God and Mary?
No. Those who do what St. Louis created dedicate their lives to Christ through the experience of Mary as Christ's first disciple. Have I? No. I am the Beloved of God. I dedicate myself to Jesus as servant, follower, and betrothed spouse.
 
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1still_waters

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No. Those who do what St. Louis created dedicate their lives to Christ through the experience of Mary as Christ's first disciple. Have I? No. I am the Beloved of God. I dedicate myself to Jesus as servant, follower, and betrothed spouse.
Yeah...that's not what the leader of your church said...

Mother of Mercy, Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice, to you, who come to meet us sinners, we dedicate on this day all our being and all our love. We also dedicate to you our life, our work, our joys,---Pope John Paul II
http://www.holylove.org/messages_given_by.php?id=81
 
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1still_waters

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You quote a single utterance of a lifetime. I hope people don't begin taking your comments and prayers out of the context of your faith.
He's the Pope. This isn't out of context. His prayer says what it says.
 
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That prayer, all Catholic prayers are in context of the whole of Catholic dogma. So, yes, it is out of context, because you don't have the knowledge of the context.
 
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I do have to speak highly of you, 11stillwaters. You continue to speak with me. You are a good Christian.
 
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1still_waters

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That prayer, all Catholic prayers are in context of the whole of Catholic dogma. So, yes, it is out of context, because you don't have the knowledge of the context.
Well Catholic dogma is the springboard of theology. And the chief theologian said this which came from that dogmatic springboard.

Mother of Mercy, Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice, to you, who come to meet us sinners, we dedicate on this day all our being and all our love. We also dedicate to you our life, our work, our joys,---Pope John Paul II
http://www.holylove.org/messages_given_by.php?id=81
He could have simply said we dedicate ourselves to God, but he didn't. Why? Because as the chief theologian of the church he believes Mary is worthy of our dedication.
 
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Well Catholic dogma is the springboard of theology. And the chief theologian said this which came from that dogmatic springboard.



He could have simply said we dedicate ourselves to God, but he didn't. Why? Because as the chief theologian of the church he believes Mary is worthy of our dedication.
He's infallible. Not inerrant. His decrees cannot fail or thwart the will of God. That is the gift of infallibility when he speaks from the seat of Peter. However, he can be in error, or say things really really badly.

Again, the difference between infallibility and inerrancy.

Even we believe that Scripture is the only infallible and inerrant thing in our world.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
That prayer, all Catholic prayers are in context of the whole of Catholic dogma. So, yes, it is out of context, because you don't have the knowledge of the context.
The problem with the RCC is that they are like a really sloppy politician when it comes to the things they say theologically.

They give Mary a high lofty sounding title like queen of Heaven.
But they know that sounds too big, so they spend time walking it back to something less significant.

Or a Pope says that he dedicates everyone to Mary, but then that has to be walked back by saying it's done within the greater context of RCC dogma.

You guys would do yourselves good, if you'd simply pin the lofty titles on God only.
Instead you guys pin those attributes on Mary too, creating tons of confusion. Confusion that gets "cleared up" after you write 1000 encyclicals explaining the title doesn't mean like what it means.
 
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The problem with the RCC is that they are like a really sloppy politician when it comes to the things they say theologically.

They give Mary a high lofty sounding title like queen of Heaven.
But they know that sounds too big, so they spend time walking it back to something less significant.

Or a Pope says that he dedicates everyone to Mary, but then that has to be walked back by saying it's done within the greater context of RCC dogma.

You guys would do yourselves good, if you'd simply pin the lofty titles on God only.
Instead you guys pin those attributes on Mary too, creating tons of confusion. Confusion that gets "cleared up" after you write 1000 encyclicals explaining the title doesn't mean like what it means.
You're learning the hard part about a Church that until recently was mostly made up of illiterate people. Welcome to Vatican II.

I don't mean that as sarcasm. Literally, every argument was an argument I made before entering the Catholic Church.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
He's infallible. Not inerrant. His decrees cannot fail or thwart the will of God. That is the gift of infallibility when he speaks from the seat of Peter. However, he can be in error, or say things really really badly.

Again, the difference between infallibility and inerrancy.

Even we believe that Scripture is the only infallible and inerrant thing in our world.
He's the POPE, sitting in the seat of Peter, the chiefest of theologians.
His statements really should be spun very tight and very precise.
They shouldn't have to be walked back.

If he were some rag-tag Internet theologian like me, then fine.
But he's not. When he says we dedicate ourselves to Mary it means what it says. When a Pope says Mary rules. That means what it says because it comes from more than an Internet theologian.
 
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1still_waters

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You're learning the hard part about a Church that until recently was mostly made up of illiterate people. Welcome to Vatican II.

I don't mean that as sarcasm. Literally, every argument was an argument I made before entering the Catholic Church.
But the Popes have never been uneducated.

Hey if they were uneducated then I'd give them tons of grace.
 
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He's the POPE, sitting in the seat of Peter, the chiefest of theologians.
His statements really should be spun very tight and very precise.
They shouldn't have to be walked back.

If he were some rag-tag Internet theologian like me, then fine.
But he's not. When he says we dedicate ourselves to Mary it means what it says. When a Pope says Mary rules. That means what it says because it comes from more than an Internet theologian.
I would agree with you, had I not read his encyclical on Human Sexuality or the Life of Christ or who we are to God, etc. St. Pope John Paul II was an avid fan of Mary, and at times it went too far, but when it came to explaining the faith and writing theological treatises, the man was a Christian. A flawed Christian, but so was Peter, and so am I.
 
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But the Popes have never been uneducated.

Hey if they were uneducated then I'd give them tons of grace.
No, you're right about that. But also realize that up until half a century ago, the only people the Pope spoke to were Catholics mostly. It's hard for an organization as large as the RCC to suddenly come into the world. Really the only person who was any good at explaining the Catholic Church to the outside world of the last century was the Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.
 
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Hey, can we continue this debate in private and tomorrow. Need sleep and also, don't want to keep hogging the CC update thing on the front page with our back and forth.