Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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1still_waters

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ThomistColin said:
Tell me, how is praying for us not helping or protecting?
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Because the language of what he said clearly implies more.This is just another example of the RCC giving a huge lofty power title/attribute to someone, then totally walking it back.
 
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1still_waters

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#1,242
#1,242
ThomistColin said:
Tell me, how is praying for us not helping or protecting?
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And what about Pope Pius XII saying she rules over us....

Please accept our consecration, dearest Mother, and use us as You wish to accomplish Your designs in the world.O Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, and Queen of the World, rule over us,
--Venerable Pope Pius XII


http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/Im_consecr.htm
 
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1still_waters

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#1,243
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Thomas I'm sorry but when you put the Pope's comments about her helping us in line with other things said by popes, it's clear that helping means more than praying. Mary rules over us? Really?
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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1still_waters said:
And what about Pope Pius XII saying she rules over us....

Please accept our consecration, dearest Mother, and use us as You wish to accomplish Your designs in the world.O Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, and Queen of the World, rule over us,
--Venerable Pope Pius XII


http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/Im_consecr.htm
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Interesting you keep quoting that same prayer.
 
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1still_waters

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#1,245
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ThomistColin said:
Interesting you keep quoting that same prayer.
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Stating that I keep quoting the prayer doesn't negate the fact that your church and Pope give God-like attributes to Mary.

She rules over us?
I thought Jesus ruled over us.
 
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1still_waters

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#1,246
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One of your Popes said Mary can heal the infirm! Pope John XIII

Holy Immaculate Mary, help all who are in trouble,
give courage to the faint-hearted, console the sad,
heal the infirm, pray for the people,
intercede for the clergy, have a special care for nuns; may all feel, all enjoy
http://www.kintera.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=etITK6OTG&b=309286&ct=160571
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ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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I'm sorry 1stillwaters, but you've proved only one prayer that I openly disagree with. For some that would be a win. Unfortunately, you act like a sore winner. Every generation casts off the foibles of the last. You seem too eager to move. The Church however must take time to adjust to the world. Like an anchor. I could show you quotes from Augustine and Aquinas, from St. Pope John XXIII and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI that would contradict the prayer you keep harping on. But then you would dwell on infallibility. It's funny, at times I wonder if people even no the difference between infallible and inerrant.
 
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1still_waters

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#1,249
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ThomistColin said:
I'm sorry 1stillwaters, but you've proved only one prayer that I openly disagree with. For some that would be a win. Unfortunately, you act like a sore winner. Every generation casts off the foibles of the last. You seem too eager to move. The Church however must take time to adjust to the world. Like an anchor. I could show you quotes from Augustine and Aquinas, from St. Pope John XXIII and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI that would contradict the prayer you keep harping on. But then you would dwell on infallibility. It's funny, at times I wonder if people even no the difference between infallible and inerrant.
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Ok i can give you more than one. Which establishes a clear pattern of Popes attributing God-like attributes to Mary.

1.Mary can heal the infirm.
- Pope John XIIIHoly Immaculate Mary, help all who are in trouble,
give courage to the faint-hearted, console the sad,
heal the infirm, pray for the people,
intercede for the clergy, have a special care for nuns; may all feel, all enjoy
http://www.kintera.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=etITK6OTG&b=309286&ct=160571
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2.Mary can deliver from war, famine, sins against human life, hatred, injustice. - Pope John Paul II


Immaculate Heart of Mary, help us to conquer the menace of evil, which so easily takes root in the hearts of the people of today, and whose immeasurable effects already weigh down upon our modern world and seem to block the paths toward the future.
From famine and war, deliver us. From nuclear war, from incalculable self-destruction, from every kind of war, deliver us. From sins against human life from its very beginning, deliver us. From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us. From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us. From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us. From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us. From the loss of awareness of good and evil, deliver us. From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us.
Accept, O Mother of Christ, this cry laden with the sufferings of all individual human beings,laden with the sufferings of whole societies. Help us with the power of the Holy Spirit conquer all sin: individual sin and the “sin of the world,”sin in all its manifestations.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/document.php?n=764
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3.. Mary is worthy of all of our dedication, all our being, life, and work. - Pope John Paul II


Mother of Mercy, Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice, to you, who come to meet us sinners, we dedicate on this day all our being and all our love. We also dedicate to you our life, our work, our joys, our infirmities and our sorrows. Grant peace, justice and prosperity to our peoples; for we entrust to your care all that we have and all that we are, our Lady and Mother. We wish to be entirely yours and to walk with you along the way of complete faithfulness to Jesus Christ in His Church; hold us always with your loving hand.
http://www.holylove.org/messages_given_by.php?id=81
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4. The church can be entrusted to her. - Pope John Paul II
On the eve of the third Christian Millennium,
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we entrust to you the Church, which acknowledges you and invokes you as Mother
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The Marian Prayer of Blessed Pope John Paul II
This is a clear pattern of giving God-like attributes to Mary, straight from the office of Pope.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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1still_waters said:
Ok i can give you more than one. Which establishes a clear pattern of Popes attributing God-like attributes to Mary.

1.Mary can heal the infirm.


2.Mary can deliver from war, famine, sins against human life, hatred, injustice. - Pope John Paul II




3.. Mary is worthy of all of our dedication, all our being, life, and work. - Pope John Paul II




4. The church can be entrusted to her. - Pope John Paul II



The Marian Prayer of Blessed Pope John Paul II
This is a clear pattern of giving God-like attributes to Mary, straight from the office of Pope.
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Unfortunately, any person who prays for these things can be said to have taken part in it. It's God who does the work.
 
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1still_waters

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Can Mary hear everyone who is praying to her?
If you say yes, doesn't that kinda give her a God attribute?

If you say no, doesn't that kinda make so many praying to her at once sorta futile?
 
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1still_waters

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ThomistColin said:
Unfortunately, any person who prays for these things can be said to have taken part in it. It's God who does the work.
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Mother of Mercy, Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice, to you, who come to meet us sinners, we dedicate on this day all our being and all our love. We also dedicate to you our life, our work, our joys,---Pope John Paul II
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http://www.holylove.org/messages_given_by.php?id=81

Why is he dedicating their lives to Mary and not to God?

Again a God-like attribute being given to Mary. As if she's worthy of dedicating our life to.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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1still_waters said:
Can Mary hear everyone who is praying to her?
If you say yes, doesn't that kinda give her a God attribute?

If you say no, doesn't that kinda make so many praying to her at once sorta futile?
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Yes, because Scripture specifically says that those in Heaven are aware of what is happening down here. Revelation.
Also, Scripture says that those in Heaven bring the prayers of the faithful before the Throne of God as incense. Revelation again.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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1still_waters said:
http://www.holylove.org/messages_given_by.php?id=81

Why is he dedicating their lives to Mary and not to God?

Again a God-like attribute being given to Mary. As if she's worthy of dedicating our life to.
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And we teach that Mary.does always what she did at Cana. Turn to Jesus and lay all glory and honor to Him.
 
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1still_waters

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ThomistColin said:
Yes, because Scripture specifically says that those in Heaven are aware of what is happening down here. Revelation.
Also, Scripture says that those in Heaven bring the prayers of the faithful before the Throne of God as incense. Revelation again.
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So a person in heaven hears every request made to them?
That again gives Mary a God-like attribute. Ability to be all hearing!
 
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1still_waters

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ThomistColin said:
And we teach that Mary.does always what she did at Cana. Turn to Jesus and lay all glory and honor to Him.
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So why not just say God we dedicate our lives to you?
Again, giving a lofty attribute to someone, only to turn around and explain it away.
The spin is making me dizzy.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

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1still_waters said:
So a person in heaven hears every request made to them?
That again gives Mary a God-like attribute. Ability to be all hearing!
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Or she is perfect in Heaven as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Heaven is timeless. That is a Catholic belief.
I already stated that according to Scripture those in Heaven are aware what is happening down here. The Holy Spirit said through Paul that we are constantly surrounded by "a cloud of witnesses."
 
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