Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Reformyourself]

Nothing in the Bible about Peter?
You have a lot missing in your Bible.
Get a full one.

Jerome on the apocrypha;
In translating the Old Testament, something struck Jerome: the books the Jews regarded as Holy Scripture did not include the books we know as the Apocryphal. These books had been included in the Septuagint, the basis of most older translations, and Jerome was compelled by the church to include them. But he made it clear that in his opinion the Apocryphal books were only liber ecclesiastici (church books to be read for edification), as opposed to the fully inspired liber canonici (canonical books to establish doctrine). Over one thousand years later, the leaders of the Reformation would follow Jerome’s lead and not include the Apocrypha in the Protestant Bibles.

 

[Bede]

Jerome on the apocrypha;
In translating the Old Testament, something struck Jerome: the books the Jews regarded as Holy Scripture did not include the books we know as the Apocryphal. These books had been included in the Septuagint, the basis of most older translations, and Jerome was compelled by the church to include them. But he made it clear that in his opinion the Apocryphal books were only liber ecclesiastici (church books to be read for edification), as opposed to the fully inspired liber canonici (canonical books to establish doctrine). Over one thousand years later, the leaders of the Reformation would follow Jerome’s lead and not include the Apocrypha in the Protestant Bibles.

The books that Protestants removed from the Bible were all OT books and so not relevant to the issue of Peter.
Of course Luther removed James initially but later was obliged to re-insert it.

 

[Jackson123]

then you believe something that is not true.


yes!
but anything written by a human, including my posts and your posts, may contain error.
as such, there is nothing wrong with questioning their claims.


no, I do not always say that.

To my knowledge there are 2 way of thinking

Modern philosophy and post modern philosophy

Modern philosophy believe there is ultimate truth

The way you think is more like post modernism.

 

[Jackson123]

I told you in post #2144.
If you want to ignore the evidence of history so be it.

I am sorry, I don't believe that history

 

[Dan_473]

He seems to have a blinkered view of the Church and ignore all the other 22 Rites of the Catholic Church.
I note from Wikipedia he founded an organisation called the Orthodox Roman Catholic Movement.

is he being disrespectful, in your view?

 

[Dan_473]

To my knowledge there are 2 way of thinking

Modern philosophy and post modern philosophy

Modern philosophy believe there is ultimate truth

The way you think is more like post modernism.

I think there are far more than two ways of thinking.

what leads you to imply that I think that there is no ultimate truth?

Why do you imply that there are different kinds of Truth?

In your view, what is the difference between ultimate truth and other kinds of Truth?

 

[Dan_473]

Anyway I think I've had enough of this topic.

please feel free to ignore post 2165.

 

[Jackson123]

I think there are far more than two ways of thinking.

what leads you to imply that I think that there is no ultimate truth?

Why do you imply that there are different kinds of Truth?

In your view, what is the difference between ultimate truth and other kinds of Truth?

I am not but you do
I believe Jesus is the ultimate truth.
Lumen gentium is lie
And you always say, it may but there is different way of thinking

 

[Jackson123]

In your view, what is the difference between ultimate truth and other kinds of Truth?

I only believe true or false. You do believe something else, postmodernism believe there is no truth.
What consider truth in USA may false in Middle East.

What is false to me like lumen gentium may true for you and for catholic.

 

[Benadam]

At least not under the Sun. No.

I would say the living word still abides in mankind .But God is no longer bringing new prophecies. The witness of his word is complete .There are no loving laws missing by which we could know Him more adequately. We have the perfect (face to face)

The effects are innumerable multiplying . By it we try the spirits to see if of men seen(oral traditions) or of God not seen .If any man later that John on the island of Patmos say "Lo is Christ" we are commanded not to believe. He warned us before the closing of new prophecy

The easy way yoked with Christ to separate. false prophets as false apostles .

Just use the year of the last revelation of prophecy .Within a fifty year period

No Jehovah witnesses, no Mormons, no Mohamed's, no eastern religions etc/. One true prophet the living abiding word of God.

Garee it's not about when the public revelation ended. The oral tradition can't end as long as faith is through hearing.

 

[Reformyourself]

The books that Protestants removed from the Bible were all OT books and so not relevant to the issue of Peter.
Of course Luther removed James initially but later was obliged to re-insert it.

Yes but what is a ‘full’ Bible?...we could be here all day...I do admire Jerome though. He was a grumpy old man, I can relate to that 😃

 

[garee]

Garee it's not about when the public revelation ended. The oral tradition can't end as long as faith is through hearing.

Hearing whose oral tradition? Its about when God's private revelation to his new creation ended. We have all of His understanding given to us a perfect law .

It is how we try the spirits to see if they are of God not seen or man seen. . If any man after the prophet John say thus sayeth the lord, I had a dream or vision .We are commanded to believe not. That would in the twinkling of the eye eliminate many false prophets .

 

[Bede]

@Dan_473
Hi Dan,
I said this earlier

The latter is complicated. I suppose you don't want to know this but
England = England
England + Wales = Britain
England + Wales + Scotland = Great Britain
England + Wales + Scotland + Northern Ireland = United Kingdom.
Simple.

I've just thought of an analogy between Church and the above which I will call "State"

Short name
State: United Kingdom
Church: Catholic Church

Long Name
State: United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Church: One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church

Components
State: Nations - England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Irish
Church: Rites -Roman/Latin, Syro Malabar, Melkite, etc. (20 more)

Individual (i.e. me)
State: born - English
Church: baptised - Roman Rite

 

[Dan_473]

I am not but you do

please be more specific.

I believe Jesus is the ultimate truth.

I believe Jesus is the truth.

I don't think there is ultimate truth and some other kind of truth.

Lumen gentium is lie

it is a document.
some people believe it contains lies.

human language contains ambiguities.

these ambiguities make it possible to find lies if a person really wants to find them.

for example, atheists really want to find lies in the Bible, and they say they do.
other people, including myself, looking at the same words in the Bible say they are not lies.

so I think it's important to be aware of what personal biases and motivations a person has when reading a text.

And you always say, it may but there is different way of thinking

I believe you talked about all-or-nothing thinking being associated with depressed people.

that would be an example of a way of thinking that some people engage in and others do not.

 

[Dan_473]

I only believe true or false.

we agree there.

You do believe something else,

no, I do not.

postmodernism believe there is no truth.
What consider truth in USA may false in Middle East.

that certainly isn't something I believe.

What is false to me like lumen gentium may true for you and for catholic.

again, I do not believe that.

 

[Dan_473]

I only believe true or false.

good!

is the statement below true or false?
32They worshiped the Lord, but they also appointed all sorts of their own people to officiate for them as priests in the shrines at the high places
https://biblehub.com/niv/2_kings/17.htm

 

[Dan_473]

@Dan_473
Hi Dan,
I said this earlier


I've just thought of an analogy between Church and the above which I will call "State"

Short name
State: United Kingdom
Church: Catholic Church

Long Name
State: United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Church: One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church

Components
State: Nations - England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Irish
Church: Rites -Roman/Latin, Syro Malabar, Melkite, etc. (20 more)

Individual (i.e. me)
State: born - English
Church: baptised - Roman Rite

that's an interesting analogy!

when you say,
"Church: baptised - Roman Rite"
do you mean that you were baptized into the Roman rite?
or, as I think more probable, do you mean that you were baptized into Christ and currently participate in the Roman rite?

 

[Jackson123]

so I think it's important to be aware of

Good,
Read this text
ROME — At a time of global “tragedy and suffering” because of the coronavirus, and in view of the long-term impact it will have, believers of every religion should beg mercy from the one God and father of all, Pope Francis said.
P
Pope want every believer to pray to wich God?
Christian God or their own God

It mean pope pray to his God, He want other to pray to God mean he give example and pray to His god or he not do what he preach.

Read this text and tell me who is Pope God


O Mary, you shine continuously on our journey as a sign of salvation and hope.
We entrust ourselves to you, Health of the Sick.
At the foot of the Cross you participated in Jesus’ pain,
with steadfast faith.
You, Salvation of the Roman People, know what we need.
We are certain that you will provide, so that,
as you did at Cana of Galilee,
joy and feasting might return after this moment of trial.
Help us, Mother of Divine Love,
to conform ourselves to the Father’s will
and to do what Jesus tells us:
He who took our sufferings upon Himself, and bore our sorrows to bring us,
through the Cross, to the joy of the Resurrection. Amen.
We seek refuge under your protection, O Holy Mother of God.
Do not despise our pleas – we who are put to the test – and deliver us from every danger, O glorious and blessed Virgin.

 

[Jackson123]

Pope say to Mary

We entrust ourself to you

 

[Bede]

that's an interesting analogy!

when you say,
"Church: baptised - Roman Rite"
do you mean that you were baptized into the Roman rite?
or, as I think more probable, do you mean that you were baptized into Christ and currently participate in the Roman rite?

Sort of both I think.
When we are baptised we are baptised into Christ.
But also we are baptised into a particular Rite.
A bit like Anglicans are baptised into Christ but also into the Anglican Church, except that Catholics are baptised into a particular rite within the Catholic Church.