Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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yes, I think this is kind of the idea of
pagan traditions are okay as long as they have been "Christianized".

myself, I wouldn't worry about deception coming from asking members of the body of Christ no longer on this Earth to pray with you.

I think the reception comes in when we move away from loving other people

God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
(1 John, 4)

(for me, when it comes to prayer,
I just like to say the Lord's prayer.
so people all over the world are already praying with me, and possibly those in heaven as well!)
Every body free to believe what ever they Will, but I don't believe
About the death in Christ able to hear the living,
If so, why he not able to rank back to the living? I don't believe Mary able to appear like some people say, I believe It was satan pretend to be Mary.
Being from third world country, I heard a Lot of story where some friend experience communication with the death. I Remember one day my neighbors bought a pineaple because her death Deddy come oN her dream and ask pineaple. A young man kill his own Father because in his meditation his death granpha come and ask him to do so.

Seem to me satan able to talk to us in a visions and dream pretend to be Mary or our death family.

And this pray is pagan tradition not biblical teaching.

I know Christmast not oN the bible, but what wrong to celebrate Jesus birthday in remembrance of His love.
But some people don't celebrate christmast because don't want to partisipate with pagan deception, It is ok too, as long as the reason is to do something against paganism.
But pray to the death, is different story.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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earlier on this thread I was talking with someone about "slaves obey your masters".
their position was that it actually meant respect those in authority.
(as I remember, that was yourself, but I could be wrong.)
anyways, that would be an example of interpretation, imo.

this example might be easier to talk about
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it. And also take a bag. If you don’t have a sword, sell your coat and buy one.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22&version=NIRV

the Bible says if you don't have a sword,
go buy one.


I would assume the law of God written on human hearts
15. They show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them.
(Romans, 2)

ever since Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil,
all humans capable of making a moral decision have known the difference between Good and evil, imo.


as I read it, Jesus tells us the standard that will be used
35. for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in.
40. `The King will answer them, `Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.`
(Matthew, 25)


yes, I think that dovetails nicely with the Matthew passage.

the ones who hear Jesus' voice in John 10 are the ones who will do things like feed the hungry and take in the stranger.


I think the idea of to whom much is given much is required would come into play.

certainly, if a person has received God's revelation through the scriptures, that would definitely be taken into account, imo.


17 Suppose you call yourself a Jew. You trust in the law. You brag that you know God. 18 You know what God wants. You agree with what is best because the law teaches you.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2&version=NIRV

so, for example, a Jew who has been taught by the law will be judged by the things they know from the law.
As stated without being born again a person's sins are not washed away. No where in the word does it state that God will accept good deeds as a substitute for the rebirth experience. The sin issue must be dealt with first. Only after being born again can one expect to overcome a sinful lifestyle. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what enables a person to live according to Godly principles.

Also the word speaks to the issue of one's ignorance. It is no longer something that God will overlook; it will not be an acceptable defense:

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
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Every body free to believe what ever they Will, but I don't believe
About the death in Christ able to hear the living,
If so, why he not able to rank back to the living? I don't believe Mary able to appear like some people say, I believe It was satan pretend to be Mary.
Being from third world country, I heard a Lot of story where some friend experience communication with the death. I Remember one day my neighbors bought a pineaple because her death Deddy come oN her dream and ask pineaple. A young man kill his own Father because in his meditation his death granpha come and ask him to do so.

Seem to me satan able to talk to us in a visions and dream pretend to be Mary or our death family.

And this pray is pagan tradition not biblical teaching.

I know Christmast not oN the bible, but what wrong to celebrate Jesus birthday in remembrance of His love.
But some people don't celebrate christmast because don't want to partisipate with pagan deception, It is ok too, as long as the reason is to do something against paganism.
But pray to the death, is different story.
when I first started here on Christian chat, there was a thread about yoga.
some people said it was based on Hinduism, and that it was idolatrous and demonic.

other said it was simply a set of stretches, and if a person didn't associate the names involved with Hindu gods, it didn't matter.

myself, I wouldn't call the stretches that I do in the morning yoga if I were around someone that associated it with Hinduism.
but if the person doesn't have that association, I'll happily call it yoga.

similar story with meditation.
I don't doubt that some people use it to contact demons.
but others just use it as a way of focusing their mind.

Paul talked about the idea of not eating meat if eating meat will offend your Christian brother or sister.
but Christian chat is a worldwide forum, and people with all kinds of different experiences and backgrounds come here.
now how do we practice not offending our brother or sister?

I don't doubt that you have many stories have people praying to the Dead that turn out demonic.

but suppose you met someone who thought that giving gifts around Christmas time was evil or demonic because it was based on greed.
would you stop celebrating Christmas because of that?

big picture:
Accept the person whose faith is weak. Don’t argue with them where you have differences of opinion. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything. But another person eats only vegetables because their faith is weak. 3 The person who eats everything must not look down on the one who does not. And the one who doesn’t eat everything must not judge the person who does. That’s because God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? Whether they are faithful or not is their own master’s concern. And they will be faithful, because the Lord has the power to make them faithful.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NIRV
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
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As stated without being born again a person's sins are not washed away. No where in the word does it state that God will accept good deeds as a substitute for the rebirth experience. The sin issue must be dealt with first. Only after being born again can one expect to overcome a sinful lifestyle. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what enables a person to live according to Godly principles.

Also the word speaks to the issue of one's ignorance. It is no longer something that God will overlook; it will not be an acceptable defense:

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
I hear what you're saying, at the same time,
is John 3 the only place the Bible talks about entering the kingdom of God?

if we are going to focus on the exact wording of John 3, then my first question for you is:
do you own a sword?

this story also came to my mind after reading your post
11. It happened, as they still went on, and talked, that behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated them; and Elijah went up
by a whirlwind into heaven.
(2 Kings, 2)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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490
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I hear what you're saying, at the same time,
is John 3 the only place the Bible talks about entering the kingdom of God?

if we are going to focus on the exact wording of John 3, then my first question for you is:
do you own a sword?

this story also came to my mind after reading your post
11. It happened, as they still went on, and talked, that behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated them; and Elijah went up
by a whirlwind into heaven.
(2 Kings, 2)
John 3 is relevant to the principles required for one's rebirth experience as witnessed on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38) Having a sword plays no part in one's spiritual rebirth.

God's NT mandate did not apply to Elijah since the rebirth experience only became available after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,701
760
113
when I first started here on Christian chat, there was a thread about yoga.
some people said it was based on Hinduism, and that it was idolatrous and demonic.

other said it was simply a set of stretches, and if a person didn't associate the names involved with Hindu gods, it didn't matter.

myself, I wouldn't call the stretches that I do in the morning yoga if I were around someone that associated it with Hinduism.
but if the person doesn't have that association, I'll happily call it yoga.

similar story with meditation.
I don't doubt that some people use it to contact demons.
but others just use it as a way of focusing their mind.

Paul talked about the idea of not eating meat if eating meat will offend your Christian brother or sister.
but Christian chat is a worldwide forum, and people with all kinds of different experiences and backgrounds come here.
now how do we practice not offending our brother or sister?

I don't doubt that you have many stories have people praying to the Dead that turn out demonic.

but suppose you met someone who thought that giving gifts around Christmas time was evil or demonic because it was based on greed.
would you stop celebrating Christmas because of that?

big picture:
Accept the person whose faith is weak. Don’t argue with them where you have differences of opinion. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything. But another person eats only vegetables because their faith is weak. 3 The person who eats everything must not look down on the one who does not. And the one who doesn’t eat everything must not judge the person who does. That’s because God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? Whether they are faithful or not is their own master’s concern. And they will be faithful, because the Lord has the power to make them faithful.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NIRV
We have biblical instruction oN Eat. But not in pray to the death. Pray and bow infront of the statue is prohibit.
Instruction oN Eat something that has been use to pray for satan is not inrruction to pray for the death.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Just interested. Do you believe water baptism is a component of the spiritual rebirth? Also, through the lens of scripture is the proper way to administer baptism, "into the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
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John 3 is relevant to the principles required for one's rebirth experience as witnessed on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38) Having a sword plays no part in one's spiritual rebirth.
I think having a sword is very relevant to our discussion here,
because it relates to how the scriptures are handled.

so before we talk about the details of John 3,
the Bible says to buy a sword.

have you followed that instruction?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
1,037
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We have biblical instruction oN Eat. But not in pray to the death. Pray and bow infront of the statue is prohibit.
Instruction oN Eat something that has been use to pray for satan is not inrruction to pray for the death.
That's correct, I was drawing a parallel.

Does the Bible have instructions about yoga?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,701
760
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That's correct, I was drawing a parallel.

Does the Bible have instructions about yoga?
I don't know about yoga, I heard yoga was practice to honor shiva, Hindu god.
I know a lady Convert to Hindu after practice yoga, not every body Convert to Hindu after practice yoga.

There is story in my country, young man practice yoga, for some reason he uncounsiously doing meditation when he drive, cause car accident injured him and kill other.
Not always happen, and I don't know why It happen, but It happen
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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NOTE: The word specifically states that there is only one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus. (1 Tim 2:5) And, Jesus said we are to pray to the Father in His name. (John 15:16, 16:23)
Jesus is
am not aware of scripture that states/implies it is proper to pray to anyone else. If you know of any please provide them. Thanks.
I was responding to the oft' heard "no where will you find that in Scriptures" I didn't post it as a defense.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
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Just interested. Do you believe water baptism is a component of the spiritual rebirth? Also, through the lens of scripture is the proper way to administer baptism, "into the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?"
if you're asking me,

I think water baptism is a component of spiritual rebirth, though I could see situations where God would probably make an exception.

for example, the Inuit people during winter.
fully immerse someone in water then and you could kill them.

I think the best way to baptize is both in the name of Jesus per Acts,
and also using the trinitarian formulation at the end of Matthew.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
1,037
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I don't know about yoga, I heard yoga was practice to honor shiva, Hindu god.
I know a lady Convert to Hindu after practice yoga, not every body Convert to Hindu after practice yoga.

There is story in my country, young man practice yoga, for some reason he uncounsiously doing meditation when he drive, cause car accident injured him and kill other.
Not always happen, and I don't know why It happen, but It happen
well, my wonderful brother Jackson,
it looks to me like there are two standards going on here.

asking saints in heaven to intercede for you is not mentioned in the Bible.
and in your mind it has demonic associations.
so you say it is wrong.

both of those things are also true about yoga.
but you say you were unsure about yoga.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,701
760
113
well, my wonderful brother Jackson,
it looks to me like there are two standards going on here.

asking saints in heaven to intercede for you is not mentioned in the Bible.
and in your mind it has demonic associations.
so you say it is wrong.

both of those things are also true about yoga.
but you say you were unsure about yoga.
Yoga , wear t shirt, pray to death saint are not in the bible.
It doesn't mean all are wrong.

Wear t shirt, drive a car, or drive airplane, Eat chiken naget are not in the bible but people know It is not against bible
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,791
490
83
if you're asking me,

I think water baptism is a component of spiritual rebirth, though I could see situations where God would probably make an exception.

for example, the Inuit people during winter.
fully immerse someone in water then and you could kill them.
God knows a person's heart and will make a way for one to obey covenant responsibilities. This truth is seen in Moses' close call with death when he failed to circumcise his son in the O.T. (Ex 4:24-25)

As far as your example, people do bathe even in harsh climates. Being buried with Jesus into His death through obedience to the command to be water baptized can not be an option. Peter said, and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of the Jesus Christ for remission of sins. Without obedience to God's mandate ones sins still remain according to the word.

I think the best way to baptize is both in the name of Jesus per Acts,
and also using the trinitarian formulation at the end of Matthew.
If the biblical record showed baptisms done both ways I would agree. However since a singular name was mentioned and all examples are consistent I cannot see how following the trinitarian formula is acceptable. Also, just prior to telling the disciples to go and baptize in the name of... Jesus made the comment that ALL power was given unto Him. Why then would He say to baptize in some way other than in His name?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
30,974
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when I first started here on Christian chat, there was a thread about yoga.
some people said it was based on Hinduism, and that it was idolatrous and demonic.

other said it was simply a set of stretches, and if a person didn't associate the names involved with Hindu gods, it didn't matter.

myself, I wouldn't call the stretches that I do in the morning yoga if I were around someone that associated it with Hinduism.
but if the person doesn't have that association, I'll happily call it yoga.

similar story with meditation.
I don't doubt that some people use it to contact demons.
but others just use it as a way of focusing their mind.
Meditation is a Biblically prescribed practice. Yoga is not.

The Sanskrit noun योग yoga is derived from the sanskrit root yuj (युज्) "to attach, join, harness, yoke." In the context of yoga sutras, the word yoga means "union," and the goal is to unite one's transitory (temporary) self with the infinite Brahman, the Hindu concept of "God." This god is not a literal being, but is an impersonal spiritual substance that is one with nature and the cosmos. This view is called "pantheism," the belief that everything is God, and that reality consists only of the universe and nature. Because everything is God, the yoga philosophy makes no distinction between man and God. The practice of yoga is based on the belief that man and God are one. It is little more than self-worship disguised as high-level spirituality.
source

Divesting yoga of the spirituality connected to it is seen as somewhat sacrilegious by those who honor its origins. That is not to say you need to recognize those things to practice yoga, though any yoga teacher worth their spit would not agree that this is copacetic. There was a piece in one of our daily newspapers some time ago about this very thing, and how true practitioners saw it as a travesty (that yoga is being treated as exercise only).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,701
760
113
well, my wonderful brother Jackson,
it looks to me like there are two standards going on here.

asking saints in heaven to intercede for you is not mentioned in the Bible.
and in your mind it has demonic associations.
so you say it is wrong.

both of those things are also true about yoga.
but you say you were unsure about yoga.
We focus oN is pray to the death biblical.

Not whether Eat a rice biblical, or work night at gas station biblical. Work in the gas station is not in the bible, but people know It is not sin
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
1,037
113
Yoga , wear t shirt, pray to death saint are not in the bible.
It doesn't mean all are wrong.

Wear t shirt, drive a car, or drive airplane, Eat chiken naget are not in the bible but people know It is not against bible
is asking someone in heaven to pray with you against the Bible?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
1,037
113
God knows a person's heart and will make a way for one to obey covenant responsibilities. This truth is seen in Moses' close call with death when he failed to circumcise his son in the O.T. (Ex 4:24-25)

As far as your example, people do bathe even in harsh climates. Being buried with Jesus into His death through obedience to the command to be water baptized can not be an option. Peter said, and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of the Jesus Christ for remission of sins. Without obedience to God's mandate ones sins still remain according to the word.

If the biblical record showed baptisms done both ways I would agree. However since a singular name was mentioned and all examples are consistent I cannot see how following the trinitarian formula is acceptable. Also, just prior to telling the disciples to go and baptize in the name of... Jesus made the comment that ALL power was given unto Him. Why then would He say to baptize in some way other than in His name?
you make some interesting points!

but again, before we talk about John chapter 3 (or baptism)

the Bible says to buy a sword.

have you followed that instruction?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,022
1,037
113
Meditation is a Biblically prescribed practice. Yoga is not.

The Sanskrit noun योग yoga is derived from the sanskrit root yuj (युज्) "to attach, join, harness, yoke." In the context of yoga sutras, the word yoga means "union," and the goal is to unite one's transitory (temporary) self with the infinite Brahman, the Hindu concept of "God." This god is not a literal being, but is an impersonal spiritual substance that is one with nature and the cosmos. This view is called "pantheism," the belief that everything is God, and that reality consists only of the universe and nature. Because everything is God, the yoga philosophy makes no distinction between man and God. The practice of yoga is based on the belief that man and God are one. It is little more than self-worship disguised as high-level spirituality. source

Divesting yoga of the spirituality connected to it is seen as somewhat sacrilegious by those who honor its origins. That is not to say you need to recognize those things to practice yoga, though any yoga teacher worth their spit would not agree that this is copacetic. There was a piece in one of our daily newspapers some time ago about this very thing, and how true practitioners saw it as a travesty (that yoga is being treated as exercise only).
interesting!

sounds like you're in the "anti yoga" camp.

we can talk about it more, if you like.

or, if you've already said what you want to say, then I'll just say,
"thanks for the post and peace be with you!"