Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Dan_473]

Catholic not sure if Jews must explicitly accept Jesus for salvation or not.

I don't think they said they weren't sure, they said it was an unfathomable Divine mystery.

I am sure Jews must accept Jesus explicitly unless he never hear about Jesus et all than it may under category of Rome 2.

Romans 11: 25 For I don't desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won't be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.


Paul also says it is a mystery.


Romans 11: 26 and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, "There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. 27 This is my covenant to them, when I will take away their sins." 28 Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


How does this happen, that all Israel is saved?

Please tell me in your own words how you believe all Israel will be saved.

Not matter if missionary effort to convert Jews

"They didn’t agree with one another. They began to leave after Paul had made a final statement. He said, “The Holy Spirit was right when he spoke to your people long ago. Through Isaiah the prophet the Spirit said,


26 “ ‘Go to your people. Say to them,

“You will hear but never understand.

You will see but never know what you are seeing.”

27 These people’s hearts have become stubborn.

They can barely hear with their ears.

They have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes.

They might hear with their ears.

They might understand with their hearts.

They might turn, and then I would heal them.’ (Isaiah 6:9,10)


28-29 “Here is what I want you to know. God has sent his salvation to the Gentiles. And they will listen!”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+28&version=NIRV


See? Paul, who said he preaches first to the Jew and then to the Greek, now makes a final statement. He says the gospel is going to the gentiles.

In other places Catholics say that they want to evangelize everyone. So, it's just that there is no special mission to the Jews, which is exactly what Paul is saying here.

But any Jewish person, as well as any gentile, is welcome to walk into a Catholic Church anytime.

 

[Dan_473]

You may partly correct but please read this

Quote from (part of 36)

That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery. It is therefore no accident that Paul’s soteriological reflections in Romans 9-11 on the irrevocable redemption of Israel against the background of the Christ-mystery culminate in a magnificent

End quote

Can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly remain an unfathomable

Catholic not sure if Jews must explicitly accept Jesus for salvation or not.

I am sure Jews must accept Jesus explicitly unless he never hear about Jesus et all than it may under category of Rome 2.

Let read further still in 5/37

Quote

Here we confront the mystery of God’s work, which is not a matter of missionary efforts to convert Jews, but rather the expectation that the Lord will bring about the hour when we will all be united

End quote

Not matter if missionary effort to convert Jews

Peter made missionary effort, so vatican not agree with her first pope

Say, Jackson,
Do you remember the history of the Spanish Inquisition? I know a lot of Jewish people do! I'm not sure of it myself, but I I think it had to do with specifically evangelizing Jews in Spain. It led to a lot of, shall we say, unpleasantness.
But it forms part of the context, the background, of what the Catholic Church is saying today.

 

[Dan_473]

When Jesus (and Paul) quote scripture....it is confirmed canon.

Would this be true for Jude as well, if he quotes The book of Enoch?

 

[Dan_473]

Form that point many use the apotles as some sort of authorityive figugure...

Yes,
2 Corinthians 13: 10 For this cause I write these things while absent, that I may not deal sharply when present, according to the authority which the Lord gave me for building up, and not for tearing down.

 

[garee]

I understand that verse differently.

Jesus is saying that since there is only one being that is really, truly good, either acknowledge that he, Jesus, is really, truly good and therefore God,
, or don't call him good at all.

I think it had more to do with walking by the faith of Christ that works in us with us. Faith, the unseen eternal.

We must be careful how we hear or say we hear . the seed snatcher is watching. Not a salvation issue again more how can we hear and seek after His approval

Jesus as the Son of man seen the temporal refused to stand in the holy eternal place of God as the one source of Christian faith. . . Christ's. . . . not of the bride the church . God is not a man as us.

We have the power of the gospel needed to believe God not seen in these earthen bodies. But know it is not of us. No man can serve two masters.

This included the Son of man, Jesus .Our High priest and apostle prophet of our new born again faith. His food was to do the will of the father not seen as the father worked with him just as us. The food the disciples knew not of .Doing the will of one that works in another to both will and empower them making the burden lighter.

He knew no sin...as the first born of promise.

In that way we are informed in Mathew to call no man on earth father or no man on earth as Teacher Good Master, Rabbi . That phrase, I believe is reserved for the unseen holy place of His glory. The light of the new order. No temple, no Sun and moon, no night. The word Good represents his unseen approval the seal of integrity. Jesus said one is Good . . . . . . God

Walk by faith. As the father gave the Son his understanding He gives us his understanding. The same spirit of faith works in all . if it worked in His Son whom he spoke through in the last days .Its the same spirit of faith that works in Christians today . One Spirit. One faith as a labor their love.

2 Corinthians 4:12-13 King James Version (KJV) So then death worketh in us, but life in you. We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

 

[Dan_473]

1. I am not sure from thence mean fro Rome though it is posible, but why it do not say they bring food every day or give him shelter

You say they not give him shelter because he is prisoner. He was prisoner since from Jerusalem and the authority let the believer give him shelter in puteoli.

Maybe they did meet him from Rome with food and water, it doesn't say.


Acts 28: 16 When we entered into Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard, but Paul was allowed to stay by himself with the soldier who guarded him.

In Rome the centurion relinquishes control and Paul is handed over to the captain of the guard. So a different set of guards probably had different ideas.

 

[Dan_473]

To me building on another foundation in this context is to give more information or encouragement to be a better and mature Christian

Paul refused to talk to anyone who was from a church that he hadn't started? That doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Dan_473]

If he only want to visit to Rome where Peter, his boss there as a pastor, than the letter must go to Peter

For example

Dear boss Peter

In Romans, Paul says he wants to visit the Christians there. He doesn't mention visiting Peter.
And there's nothing in the scriptures to indicate that Peter was his boss.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

Where do they differ and why?
Do both lead to salvation? Why or why not?
How should we treat each other?

This is just my take, so I'm not saying that it's 100% correct.
I believe the main difference has to do with authority. The RCC ascribes the authority of it's teaching to the Scriptures and tradition and also the pope.
The Protestant Church protested about RCC's authority, claiming that the Church shouldn't be structured in that way. They believe in "Solar Scripture", so it seems to be about authority in my humble view.
Salvation is possible in both, because both confess that Christ is Lord.
We should treat each other, as we would like to be treated. You know the, do onto others as thou would's have them do onto ye

 

[Dan_473]

Dear boss Peter

I want to visit you in Rome, I am not try to steal your sheep, only to visit you as my boss.

Just one more thought.
It's possible that Paul did write a letter to Peter. Not all of Paul's letters were preserved.

 

[garee]

Would this be true for Jude as well, if he quotes The book of Enoch?

Nothing about a book. .Just the inspired phrase saying. . "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all . . . . . . . . . . .

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.Jude 13-15

Jesus in the last chapter of John commented on those who desire to add the oral traditions of men as lies . Jesus worked and dispelled the lies of Peter again and again . And said if every time the Holy Spirit had to dispel the lies of oral traditions of sinners The world would need to be bigger to hold the volumes of lies. One demonstration is enough for those who do believe.

 

[Dan_473]

Let talk about act 28:14 and15

Kjv say went toward Rome

Another version say went to Rome

Went toward Rome not necessary meant went to Rome though in this context also mean went to Rome

A thief depart from Phoenix az police ask the witnesses where A went, the witnesses say he take I 10 toward LA
It not necessary he went to LA

He may went to Avondale or buckeye because you will passing those town if you drive from Phoenix to LA take I10

From P Paul went toward Rome from thence/there people meet him in appii f

It is multy interpretation

From there may mean from the towns toward Rome or may mean Rome

But the way Luke wrote I believe thence do not mean Rome but the passing town on the way to Rome

Luke not say anything about welcoming party in Rome. Seem to me Luke writings style is so detail and like to use precision word

On questions involving language details, it's probably best to go back to the original. That's why I posted the link to all the commentaries. They say the Christians came from Rome.


But the Christians who were in Rome before Paul got there weren't necessarily preached to by Peter.


If you believe the book of Romans was written after Paul arrives in Rome in Acts 28, where do you believe the letter is written from? That is, where is Paul when he writes the book of Romans?

 

[Dino246]

I think it had more to do with walking by the faith of Christ that works in us with us. Faith, the unseen eternal.

You're changing subjects completely. The young man coming to Jesus and calling Him "Good Master" is not about "walking by the faith of Christ that works in us"... at all.

We must be careful how we hear or say we hear . the seed snatcher is watching. Not a salvation issue again more how can we hear and seek after His approval

Another irrelevant reference; now you're dragging in the parable of the soils.

Jesus as the Son of man seen the temporal refused to stand in the holy eternal place of God as the one source of Christian faith. . .

No He did not. Your stubborn ignorance on this matter is rooted in your marginal understanding of English grammar.

Christ's. . . . not of the bride the church .

Irrelevant, again. Do you understand what "relevant" means? Please go and learn, and apply it!

God is not a man as us.

You keep repeating this, in posts all over the forum. Who do you pretend to instruct with this? Are you finding people claiming that God IS a mere man? No. Jesus is God, and is a man. Get your head around that, and stop the vain repetition.

We have the power of the gospel needed to believe God not seen in these earthen bodies. But know it is not of us. No man can serve two masters.

Another irrelevant reference.

He knew no sin...as the first born of promise.

Two true but otherwise unrelated statements.

In that way we are informed in Mathew to call no man on earth father or no man on earth as Teacher Good Master, Rabbi . That phrase, I believe is reserved for the unseen holy place of His glory.

There is no phrase at all that is "reserved" for the unseen holy place; that concept simply is not in Scripture anywhere.

 

[Dino246]

Jesus in the last chapter of John commented on those who desire to add the oral traditions of men as lies .

Scripture reference, please. I don't think it's there.

 

[Dan_473]

God is not a man as us.

True!

At the same time, Jesus is God in a physical human body.

Colossians 2: 9 For in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily.

 

[Dan_473]

Nothing about a book. .Just the inspired phrase saying. . "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all . . . . . . . . .

That's why I said *if*.
But there is a book of Enoch which contains basically the same words.

 

[garee]

This is just my take, so I'm not saying that it's 100% correct.
I believe the main difference has to do with authority. The RCC ascribes the authority of it's teaching to the Scriptures and tradition and also the pope.
The Protestant Church protested about RCC's authority, claiming that the Church shouldn't be structured in that way. They believe in "Solar Scripture", so it seems to be about authority in my humble view.
Salvation is possible in both, because both confess that Christ is Lord.
We should treat each other, as we would like to be treated. You know the, do onto others as thou would's have them do onto ye

Yes we should. If I believed that the grace was given in fullness to our dear sister in the lord Mary exclusively and a unknown remnant to all others. And after death (no life) somehow or other I would suffer somehow for another unknown amount of time .

I would think someone shedding the light of the gospel could give them a hope and the idea of patrons saints as workers with familial spirits would be driven out by the living words of the law found in the Bible (sola scriptura) The bible calls it a abomination

If I believed in the foundation of necromancy worshiping or what they call venerating removing themselves from the idea of worship . Which is simply one of the manners as venerable. Those who lord it over another beliefs. They must seek their approval.

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the "abominations" that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

Isaiah 8 builds on that doctrine that exposed necromancy . Rachel hid them image idols (teraphim as household family gods ) Isaiah 8 uses the word "seek" twice. The first necromancy seeking after the dead. And the second seek, seek after God who gives life to those dead in their trespasses and sin as the fullness of Grace . Not a remnant as Catholics must believe.

Isaiah 8:18-20 King James Version (KJV) Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no "light "in them.

I would suggest offering them light of the gospel .Not a remnant the whole.

 

[garee]

True!

At the same time, Jesus is God in a physical human body.

Colossians 2: 9 For in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily.

I would agree the unseen power of the the two working as one. Same unseen power that can work in us to both will and do the good pleasure of Him not seen. . He can make our hearts soft by creating it anew.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't think they said they weren't sure, they said it was an unfathomable Divine mystery.

Definition of definite
1a : free of all ambiguity, uncertainty, or obscurity
demanded a definite answer
Her position on the issue was definite.
b : UNQUESTIONABLE, DECIDED
the quarterback was a definite hero today
a definite masterpiece
saw a definite improvement in her grades

If we use uncertainty mean they don't know for sure am o correct?

And I believe this is the end game

Quote

Here we confront the mystery of God’s work, which is not a matter of missionary efforts to convert Jews, but rather the expectation that the Lord will bring about the hour when we will all be united, "when all peoples will call on God with one voice and ‘serve him shoulder to shoulder’ " ("Nostra aetate", No.4).

End quote

Not matter of missionary effort to convert Jews

Than why we try to convert Jews

So New York time had a correct conclusions

 

[garee]

You're changing subjects completely. The young man coming to Jesus and calling Him "Good Master" is not about "walking by the faith of Christ that works in us"... at all.

Changing whose subject?

Exactly he was accusing the Christ the anointing teacher not seen that worked in the Son of man seen calling him according to what the eyes see Good Master. Jesus knew that he could not serve the flesh which he said profits for nothing, zero and the unseen Spirit that worked in him .He gave glory to the father in the greater postion of that one work of faith and said. . . one is Good, God.

Impossible to serve two infallible teaching Masters . That is seen also in the parable in Luke 16. The Rich man and Lazarus.