Cessationism and Continuationism

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Dec 29, 2021
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And there is the utter arrogance of that side of the argument. That down through the years, every person who has spoken in tongues has done it through demonic power. I certainly hope I missed something in post and that you are not claiming this. I will await an answer so as not to be accused of putting words in your mouth.
Calling the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is the same as the Pharisees calling the Power of Christ Demonic. It's the Same Power. If it was Blaspheming in Christ's Day, it is Blaspheming Today!
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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You don't believe the Satellite before and Police Drone after pictures + Police Reports and Fire Reports?

They will not believe if they don't personally experience it, and they won't experience it because they refuse to believe. If you experience it it has to be demon power because they don't believe in it. So they have a nice little place of denial cut out for themselves to hide in. But I have debunked three or four of their main arguments. Watch them utterly ignore what was said.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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They will not believe if they don't personally experience it, and they won't experience it because they refuse to believe. If you experience it it has to be demon power because they don't believe in it. So they have a nice little place of denial cut out for themselves to hide in. But I have debunked three or four of their main arguments. Watch them utterly ignore what was said.
as most Pharisees are. Just as they did to Jesus. called him a devil too. I'm not shocked some here say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are of the devil.
 
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They will not believe if they don't personally experience it, and they won't experience it because they refuse to believe. If you experience it it has to be demon power because they don't believe in it. So they have a nice little place of denial cut out for themselves to hide in. But I have debunked three or four of their main arguments. Watch them utterly ignore what was said.
My job is to Testify what God has done, my job is to not make them believe. But when you have Police, Fire Department x 3, you have News Paper Writers, plus those who saw the Smoke ascending and just had to drive by and see, and let's not forget the hundreds of Neighbors, plus the Pictures of before and After to prove it, You would like to think Your Testimony has Validity to it. But like you said...
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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Calling the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is the same as the Pharisees calling the Power of Christ Demonic. It's the Same Power. If it was Blaspheming in Christ's Day, it is Blaspheming Today!

The Bible says dark and light cannot abide together. So that means that people speaking in tongues are demonic and have no light in them. That is what they are saying. They would rather be willfully blind and accuse brothers and sisters in Christ of being demonic, than think that they could be wrong. They would be the ones lighting the match, burning the saints of old.
 
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The Bible says dark and light cannot abide together. So that means that people speaking in tongues are demonic and have no light in them. That is what they are saying. They would rather be willfully blind and accuse brothers and sisters in Christ of being demonic, than think that they could be wrong. They would be the ones lighting the match, burning the saints of old.
Paul said, a Strong Delusion would happen, who we know he meant so-called Believers would be Deceived.
 
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If God is not working in Your life, you do not have the Truth!
If God is not giving you a Testimony to share of His Power, you do not have the Truth!
If You are more Afflicted than a Conqueror, you do not have the Truth!
 
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The Apostles had the Truth, because, it's Evident God worked in their lives.
The Apostles had the Truth, because, of the Testimonies of what God was doing through them.
The Apostles were more Conquerors than they were ever Afflicted, because, they had the Truth.

Our lives should Pattern the Apostles Example of how God was able to use them for His Glory!

If our lives [do not] reflect these Examples, there is something wrong about the Truth in our lives.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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Reading on this subject more deeply since it's suddenly the most popular issue here, here a few points to think about regarding cessationism.


Point One - The New Testament also employs the term apostle(s) to refer to several people aside from the Twelve and Paul. For a few examples, these include Apollos (1 Corinthians 4:6-13), James (Galatians 1:19), Barnabas (Acts 14:14); Titus (2 Corinthians 8:23), and more.

None of these people were authors of Scripture. " These were people who lived and served the church during those foundational years and were called and gifted by the Holy Spirit as apostles, even though they never operated as God’s agents in receiving and delivering inspired scripture to the church. This means that, though they were certainly important and strategic leaders in their own right, they were not foundational in the same way that the Twelve and Paul were foundational to the establishment of the church, and formulation of the biblical canon. This would seem to at least imply the possibility that such apostles could exist today without threatening the closed canon of the Bible, or leading to Roman Catholic conclusions about Apostolic Succession."


Point 2 -
"Scripture does not limit God’s intentions for miracles, healings, and the like to authenticating Messianic or apostolic ministry, and neither should people today.


Far more people than Jesus and the apostles experienced miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament (Acts 6:8; 8:6). Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians declare that the charismata are the potential experience of all individual believers in the church (1 Corinthians 12:4-11). In his speech at Pentecost, Peter reaches back to Joel 2:28-32 to provide a biblical framework for understanding the manifestation of the gift of tongues the people were hearing at that pivotal moment in church history: “God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy” (Acts 2:17a-18). "

So this was to all, not just a special few to men AND women. I will pour out my spirit on ALL, even servants.


Point 3- "The argument for cessationism from a closed canon has weaknesses. For one, there is no evidence that tongues or prophecy were the mediums through which God moved the biblical authors to formulate inspired Scripture. On the contrary, Paul plainly and bluntly describes tongues as praying (1 Corinthians 14:14), singing (14:15b), and giving thanks (14:16) in the spirit to God (2a), for the believer’s personal edification (4a), by means of a language previously unknown to the speaker (14:10-14). New Testament Prophecy is speaking a spontaneous (14:30), biblically-consistent message (14:29b), which brings edification, exhortation, or comfort to the hearer (14:3). These are not gifts reserved for the spiritual elite or uniquely called, but the potential experience of all believers (14:1), young or old, male or female (Joel 2:28-32; 1 Corinthians 11:5), leader or non-leader (1 Corinthians 14:31). If these revelatory gifts were experienced by all believers (not just the apostles and authors of Scripture), during the first century of the church, and were therefore clearly not the mechanism through which inspired Scripture was granted, then there is no reason to believe that their usefulness would pass from the scene when the canon was completed."

Point 4- Regarding 1 Corinthians 13:8-9, it is more likely that the perfect Paul had in mind is the state of glorification believers will experience in the next age.

But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Point 5 - "God commands the church to actively avoid quenching manifestations of the Spirit. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22; 1 Corinthians 14:39-40) Nothing could be more quenching to the Spirit and His desire to grant the charismata in our midst than teaching people that these manifestations of the Spirit are not available to the church today and that they should not be sought or tolerated by believers in our personal lives and congregational gatherings. "

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

1 Corinthians 14:39-40 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
There is a lot in there, so I will address only a few points. What made one an Apostle? They where all ordained by Jesus Himself. The original 11 by the incarnate Christ, Mathias by by lot, and Paul by Christ in His glory. To claim others as Apostles is not biblically sound nor are they ever mentioned as Apostles

God is not limited to anything. There are certain dispensation periods in which God preformed preternatural events. These were not and have not been common throughout annals of history. The closing of canonical scripture does not indicted a limiting or ceasing of Gods power. I don’t think anyone disagrees on that.

Proof-texting seems to have become the norm for many believes and non-believes alike. When disputes arises, many are quick to throw out a couple of verses to validate their positions. This a big error. Proper hermanuics are needed; such as who the author is writing to, what is the central theme of the passages, if it’s theological, poetic, wisdom, historical, prothetic, etc. I have done this many times myself.

The OP is really not about speaking in tongues per say. It’s more about how the Apostolic age ended in the first century. That was a very critical time for the church and such things were needed. Of course they will come about again when when the great tribulation occurs, but I see this as being hijacked and many being led astray with false doctrines and pseudo teachings.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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There is a lot in there, so I will address only a few points. What made one an Apostle? They where all ordained by Jesus Himself. The original 11 by the incarnate Christ, Mathias by by lot, and Paul by Christ in His glory. To claim others as Apostles is not biblically sound nor are they ever mentioned as Apostles

God is not limited to anything. There are certain dispensation periods in which God preformed preternatural events. These were not and have not been common throughout annals of history. The closing of canonical scripture does not indicted a limiting or ceasing of Gods power. I don’t think anyone disagrees on that.

Proof-texting seems to have become the norm for many believes and non-believes alike. When disputes arises, many are quick to throw out a couple of verses to validate their positions. This a big error. Proper hermanuics are needed; such as who the author is writing to, what is the central theme of the passages, if it’s theological, poetic, wisdom, historical, prothetic, etc. I have done this many times myself.

The OP is really not about speaking in tongues per say. It’s more about how the Apostolic age ended in the first century. That was a very critical time for the church and such things were needed. Of course they will come about again when when the great tribulation occurs, but I see this as being hijacked and many being led astray with false doctrines and pseudo teachings.
Do You know who Mark, the Author of the Gospel of Mark is? Disciple of Peter
Do you know who Timothy was? Disciple of Paul
Do You know who Polycarp and many Others were? Disciple of John, the Beloved

They were Disciples of the Apostles.

The Apostles made Disciples, who made Disciples, and continued making Disciples down until Now!

So, the entire Lineage goes back to Christ!
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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Talking of the accusation that some cessationists are saying people speaking in tongues now is demonic...


I agree with the view that it's a euphoric and can even be a relaxing experience, rather than saying its directly demonic.

Most Christians who try to speak in tongues would do so with Gods best in mind, so it would be doubtful it would be a demonic thing.

It would only go to the demonic point where it would be akin to Hindu and New Age trance states.. where God isn't in the picture at all.

So yeah, I wouldn't call it demonic, Christian's trying to speak in tongues now, but a euphoric experience.
And let's not forget what scripture says about those who attribute acts of the Holy Spirit to demons.

That's what makes this subject particularly dangerous.
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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This is just a short 8 minute video clip of John MacArthur explaining why he believes(As I do) that certain gifts of the Spirit ceased with Apostles.

I know this is a touchy subject and I do expect some disagreement, but I am interested in what other Christians thoughts on the matter are.
God assembled the apostles for a reason.......to assist Him in establishing ...good news of salvation....it is logical that things they were part of would be different than now.
 
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God assembled the apostles for a reason.......to assist Him in establishing ...good news of salvation....it is logical that things they were part of would be different than now.
Jesus said, the Works of Those Who Believe, will be Greater than His Own because He goes back to the Father.

Today, it is Evident, those Works are Greater than they were 2,000 years ago!
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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They will not believe if they don't personally experience it, and they won't experience it because they refuse to believe. If you experience it it has to be demon power because they don't believe in it. So they have a nice little place of denial cut out for themselves to hide in. But I have debunked three or four of their main arguments. Watch them utterly ignore what was said.
This where I take issue with word of faith movement as it is today. The notion that people don’t experience these things is because of a lack of faith. That’s an utter fallacy. God chooses whom He will give credence to and whom He will not. This has nothing to do with our own ability or willingness.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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Do You know who Mark, the Author of the Gospel of Mark is? Disciple of Peter
Do you know who Timothy was? Disciple of Paul
Do You know who Polycarp and many Others were? Disciple of John, the Beloved

They were Disciples of the Apostles.

The Apostles made Disciples, who made Disciples, and continued making Disciples down until Now!

So, the entire Lineage goes back to Christ!
Yes, I’m quite familiar with all of those names. Being a disciple does not make one an Apostle. That was a very unique title given to a very small elected group of men.
 
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This where I take issue with word of faith movement as it is today. The notion that people don’t experience these things is because of a lack of faith. That’s an utter fallacy. God chooses whom He will give credence to and whom He will not. This has nothing to do with our own ability or willingness.
Tongues is a Gift from the Holy Spirit.

Word of Faith, Wealth, Name it Claim it, Two Lips, whatever else, are Doctrines of man.

Big difference!
 
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Yes, I’m quite familiar with all of those names. Being a disciple does not make one an Apostle. That was a very unique title given to a very small elected group of men.
Well, I am just pointing out we are Disciples, but, it does not mean we are not directly connected to the Apostles or Christ Himself, for that matter.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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Well, I am just pointing out we are Disciples, but, it does not mean we are not directly connected to the Apostles or Christ Himself, for that matter.
So do we absorb their power through a lineage? I just want to make sure I know what you mean.
 
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So do we absorb their power through a lineage? I just want to make sure I know what you mean.
hahahaha!

We are Saved One Way, and we are Filled with the Holy Spirit Independently/Individually.

But, we are Disciples through Lineage, much like we are children of God, by being Grafted in.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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There is a lot in there, so I will address only a few points. What made one an Apostle? They where all ordained by Jesus Himself. The original 11 by the incarnate Christ, Mathias by by lot, and Paul by Christ in His glory. To claim others as Apostles is not biblically sound nor are they ever mentioned as Apostles

Gal - But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

1 Cor- For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all (Apollos)

Acts- But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out,..

2 Cor. -As for Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker for your benefit. And as for our brothers, they are messengers 6 of the churches, the glory of Christ.

Timothy and Silvanus– I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6

Epaphroditus–Philippians 2:25. While the King James Version translates the word as “messenger”, the Greek word (apostolon) is actually “apostle”.

"We know additional apostles besides these men exist because Christ, after His ascension, appointed “some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers . . . until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:11-13)."

Andronicus and Junia–Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”



God is not limited to anything. There are certain dispensation periods in which God preformed preternatural events. These were not and have not been common throughout annals of history. The closing of canonical scripture does not indicted a limiting or ceasing of Gods power. I don’t think anyone disagrees on that.
I'm glad you do agree, but some here do not. So I was making that point for those who do not agree.




The OP is really not about speaking in tongues per say. It’s more about how the Apostolic age ended in the first century.
I used Bible verses that make clear that it didn't. I gave you names and verses to prove that.




That was a very critical time for the church and such things were needed. Of course they will come about again when when the great tribulation occurs, but I see this as being hijacked and many being led astray with false doctrines and pseudo teachings.
Again,
1 Corinthians 14:39-40 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.


1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.