Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Before, you were arguing that the word meant to predict the future. When Magenta disagreed, you wrote,

....you play with words “prophesy isn’t always”, just like satan twisted God’s
words in the garden to Eve the serpent said to the woman “Surely you won’t
die!”, your being just like him by twisting the meaning of the words. No, you
won’t die right this moment Eve, but your sweet innocence is now destroyed!


So now you are agreeing that prophecy isn't always predicting the future. So are you fulfilling 'being just like him' [Satan] now by arguing that prophesy does not always mean to predict the future? You just leveled all those accusations against someone for arguing against your previous position.

The bigger issue here is one of sin. Slandering people is a sin. You go around accusing left and right in this thread. Here, you are proven to be in error and backtracked, changing your previous stance. That would not be a big deal, except you just accused someone of being like Satan for not agreeing with your previous position.

The issue here is a sin issue. It is a sin to slander others, according to the Bible. The Bible does not say that it is a sin to believe that God does miracles, does miracles through individuals in the current age, heals through gifts of the Spirit, gifts some individuals to prophesy. In fact, I can show you scripture that teaches that these gifts are distributed among the members of the body of Christ.
Lookup acts like a prowling, roaring lion seeking someone to devour.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Lookup acts like a prowling, roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
I did not find an apology to you from @Lookupnotback on the forum after he accused you of acting like satan for disagreeing with his idea that prophesying is always about the future, then doing the same thing himself.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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We know that God brings suffering and infirmity to believers to use them as a testimony of how to suffer for His names sake. Those who suffer are drawn closer to God and they testify of the goodness of God in suffering.

Only if the testimony is aligned with the word of God. Much of what men claim is false and does not align with the scripture. It will only increase until the Lord returns for His church. Strong delusion is increasing in the world but then lost souls are going to believe what lost souls believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God doesn't bring it he allows it. He take what was meant for bad and turns it to good for His glory. a testimony is evidence of God's working. Testifying is the person telling those what God did.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,139
28,471
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I did not find an apology to you from @Lookupnotback on the forum after he accused you of acting like satan for disagreeing with his idea that prophesying is always about the future, then doing the same thing himself.
It may be unrealistic to expect an apology from such a devilish, self-contradictory troll.

And of course, that is putting it mildly ;):D
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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wozza all those isms?

cessationaism vs continualism

well heres what I think of both POVs

cessationism is for people who dont have gifts
continualism is for people that do

Unfortunately not everyone has discovered their spiritual gifts or is grateful for them but they have made do without it.

The gifted ones cant help but use them. But sometimes people do abuse or squander their gifts.
the ones who arent gifted can be envious of those that have the gifts. But if people dont ask, they dont receive.

If you have a spiritual gift its up to you to use it responsibly. I have seen gifted people become lazy because the gift was given and they didnt have to work to earn it.

for those who dont have gifts, I think they might have a view of God who is stingy because He hasnt favoured them. but some people actually may have been given a gift and they never used it because they didnt value it.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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God doesn't bring it he allows it. He take what was meant for bad and turns it to good for His glory. a testimony is evidence of God's working. Testifying is the person telling those what God did.
God is sovereign and not passive in the care of His children.

Precious in the sight of God is the death of His saints. We are counted as sheep to the slaughter for the glory of God. God scourges His children for His glory. God is not passive but sovereign. All is by His determinate will and never by happenstance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,880
4,258
113
God is sovereign and not passive in the care of His children.

Precious in the sight of God is the death of His saints. We are counted as sheep to the slaughter for the glory of God. God scourges His children for His glory. God is not passive but sovereign. All is by His determinate will and never by happenstance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
what are you saying? Praying God will not answer? Yet Jesus said to pray? I guess you think God requires us to suffer for our salvation? And though the suffering God says to call on HIm and He might answer you?

That is not the God of the Bible, that is the devil. The God of the Bible says I AM the Lord God that Heals!

YOu enjoy your pain and suffering I will thank God that there is a test that will not break me. Anything bad that happens in this world outside of the Judgment of God is not from God.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,880
4,258
113
God is sovereign and not passive in the care of His children.

Precious in the sight of God is the death of His saints. We are counted as sheep to the slaughter for the glory of God. God scourges His children for His glory. God is not passive but sovereign. All is by His determinate will and never by happenstance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
false humility some would call it.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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what are you saying? Praying God will not answer? Yet Jesus said to pray? I guess you think God requires us to suffer for our salvation? And though the suffering God says to call on HIm and He might answer you?

That is not the God of the Bible, that is the devil. The God of the Bible says I AM the Lord God that Heals!

YOu enjoy your pain and suffering I will thank God that there is a test that will not break me. Anything bad that happens in this world outside of the Judgment of God is not from God.
You ever consider the book of Job? Hebrews 12:8? Ps 116:15? Ps 44:22?
false humility some would call it.
Share in His suffering that you might reign with Him.

BG never did provide any discipleship only crop duster evangelism.

Much of the richness of Christ is found in suffering.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,880
4,258
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You ever consider the book of Job? Hebrews 12:8? Ps 116:15? Ps 44:22?

Share in His suffering that you might reign with Him.

BG never did provide any discipleship only crop duster evangelism.

Much of the richness of Christ is found in suffering.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Sharing in his suffering is for the word of God and the Gospel message. You can be suffering from cancer and not be saved. so to Suggest because your body is dying because of age that is suffering for Christ, wrong!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,880
4,258
113
You ever consider the book of Job? Hebrews 12:8? Ps 116:15? Ps 44:22?

Share in His suffering that you might reign with Him.

BG never did provide any discipleship only crop duster evangelism.

Much of the richness of Christ is found in suffering.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
a great example of false humility.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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Sharing in his suffering is for the word of God and the Gospel message. You can be suffering from cancer and not be saved. so to Suggest because your body is dying because of age that is suffering for Christ, wrong!
False pretense. Christians suffer from all the afflictions that the lost suffer but Christians have hope in their suffering. But you don't have any knowledge of such suffering.

a great example of false humility.
Ridiculous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,880
4,258
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False pretense. Christians suffer from all the afflictions that the lost suffer but Christians have hope in their suffering. But you don't have any knowledge of such suffering.


Ridiculous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You don't have any knowledge of my suffering you hateful person. The word of God says that

Pslams 34:19

Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Amen to that.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,147
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We know that God brings suffering and infirmity to believers to use them as a testimony of how to suffer for His names sake. Those who suffer are drawn closer to God and they testify of the goodness of God in suffering.
In the Old Testament, if Israel were obedient to the covenant, God would put upon them none of the sicknesses that He put upon the Egyptians. In the New Testament, some were sick and slept in the Corinthian church over the sin of not rightly regarding the Lord's body. People debate over Paul's infirmity in II Corinthians was a sickness per se. But that was given so that he would not be proud, whatever it was. James says of the one who calls for the elders of the church 'and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

Where does the Bible teach that sickness is suffering 'for His name's sake'? Maybe Epaphras or Epaphraditus was sick in the course of ministry, but he got better, and I can't find any passage about someone suffering so well under cancer or arthritis that other people glorified God because of how they suffered from their illness.

I saw a post elsewhere one time about someone complaining about a little old lady who had heard teaching about believing God for her arthritis to be healed. The poster said that the reason she had the arthritis was to teach her to be more like Jesus-- or something along those lines-- as if he had the ability to know God's purposes behind this woman's specific illness.

I asked him if he knew that was the case, why didn't he have the old woman soak her hands in ice water so she could experience more pain from her arthritis because it would do her so much spiritual good. If he really thought like that, he should be against taking Tylenol for the pain also.

Only if the testimony is aligned with the word of God. Much of what men claim is false and does not align with the scripture.
Testimonies of hearing speaking in tongues in one's own language do align with the word, because there are examples of this in Acts 2. It does not align with your eisegesis of equating 'that which is perfect' with the completed canon. Reality does not align with your interpretation.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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You don't have any knowledge of my suffering you hateful person. The word of God says that

Pslams 34:19

Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Amen to that.
Exactly sometimes the deliverance is death.

You really should do something about the projection of hate issues you display. Physical death is just a doorway to eternal life for the believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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If we have a Biblical perspective we will realize that a miracle can be genuinely from God or some kind of deception, and that there can be true and false prophecies.
OK so you tell me if this miracle is genuinely from God or is some kind of deception

One of the Miracles of St. Anthony of Padua (Anthony Dines with Enemies)

CERTAIN heretics of Rimini decided to end the meddlesome interference of Anthony in their sinful lives. His sermons had turned the attention of the people to their sinful excesses and the only solution was to get rid of the friar. So they invited the Saint to dinner, planning to poison his food. But God revealed their plans to their intended victim. Anthony still came to dine. Before he sat down at table he told his enemies of their plot. But they only laughed at him, reminding Anthony of Christ’s promise to His disciples, “And if they drink of any poisonous drink, it shall not harm them [Mark 16].” If he would eat the poisonous food without harm, they would return to the Faith. Anthony blessed the food and ate it without harm. The heretics confessed their sins and made good their promise.

OK so again you tell me if this miracle is genuinely from God or is some kind of deception.
https://www.sainttherse.com/from-the-miracles-of-saint-anthony-of-padua-anthony-dines-with-enemies/#:~:text=Before he sat down at,would return to the Faith.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
In the Old Testament, if Israel were obedient to the covenant, God would put upon them none of the sicknesses that He put upon the Egyptians. In the New Testament, some were sick and slept in the Corinthian church over the sin of not rightly regarding the Lord's body. People debate over Paul's infirmity in II Corinthians was a sickness per se. But that was given so that he would not be proud, whatever it was. James says of the one who calls for the elders of the church 'and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

Where does the Bible teach that sickness is suffering 'for His name's sake'? Maybe Epaphras or Epaphraditus was sick in the course of ministry, but he got better, and I can't find any passage about someone suffering so well under cancer or arthritis that other people glorified God because of how they suffered from their illness.

I saw a post elsewhere one time about someone complaining about a little old lady who had heard teaching about believing God for her arthritis to be healed. The poster said that the reason she had the arthritis was to teach her to be more like Jesus-- or something along those lines-- as if he had the ability to know God's purposes behind this woman's specific illness.

I asked him if he knew that was the case, why didn't he have the old woman soak her hands in ice water so she could experience more pain from her arthritis because it would do her so much spiritual good. If he really thought like that, he should be against taking Tylenol for the pain also.
So you teach that Christians have it easy and are spared suffering? Jesus never taught any such thing. I have known many fine Christians who suffered and died to glorify God. What better testimony to the doctors and healthcare workers that to suffer without complaint and give God the glory?
Testimonies of hearing speaking in tongues in one's own language do align with the word, because there are examples of this in Acts 2. It does not align with your eisegesis of equating 'that which is perfect' with the completed canon. Reality does not align with your interpretation.
You can accept these testimonies without question but you cannot receive the word of God? How sad that you will follow those who would gladly lead you astray.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,147
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OK so you tell me if this miracle is genuinely from God or is some kind of deception

One of the Miracles of St. Anthony of Padua (Anthony Dines with Enemies)

CERTAIN heretics of Rimini decided to end the meddlesome interference of Anthony in their sinful lives. His sermons had turned the attention of the people to their sinful excesses and the only solution was to get rid of the friar. So they invited the Saint to dinner, planning to poison his food. But God revealed their plans to their intended victim. Anthony still came to dine. Before he sat down at table he told his enemies of their plot. But they only laughed at him, reminding Anthony of Christ’s promise to His disciples, “And if they drink of any poisonous drink, it shall not harm them [Mark 16].” If he would eat the poisonous food without harm, they would return to the Faith. Anthony blessed the food and ate it without harm. The heretics confessed their sins and made good their promise.

OK so again you tell me if this miracle is genuinely from God or is some kind of deception.
https://www.sainttherse.com/from-the-miracles-of-saint-anthony-of-padua-anthony-dines-with-enemies/#:~:text=Before he sat down at,would return to the Faith.
There are a number of ways of telling whether a miracle is truly from God, including the exercise of the gift of discernment of spirits. We can look at the fruit of someone's life. I am not familiar with the life of St. Anthony. For me personally, I would not want to knowingly eat poison so that I not tempt the Lord, but I do not know how the Lord led the man in this situation. This is also a second or third hand account or less direct than that. Answering your question also does not affect my day to day life.

Whether you know the answer to your question has no bearing on the truth of the Biblical teaching that God gifts some members of the body of Christ to do miracles.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,147
1,783
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So you teach that Christians have it easy and are spared suffering?
You are just making stuff up now. Paul wrote if we suffer with Him, we will also reign with Him. That doesn't mean if someone gets Covid-19, he is suffering for Christ's sake. Unbelievers can get Covid-19. If someone loses His job, is reviled, etc. for professing faith in Jesus or for following the teachings of Jesus, he may be suffering for Christ's sake.

You can accept these testimonies without question but you cannot receive the word of God?
You are the one in this conversation who is having difficulty receiving the word of God. You changed what the Bible said in an earlier post. Paul did not write that tongues and prophecy would cease when the canon is complete. He wrote that when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part will be done away. This is in an epistle in which he wrote, as the KJV renders it, 'So that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.' A couple of chapters later, he wrote about the transformation that will occur to us at Christ's coming.

And I do not say I accept testimonies without question either.
 
Mar 17, 2021
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This is your reply to my doubting your 50 years of being in the Charismatic church without seeing any emotional highs??? Really?
Yes it is. Apart from the lunatic fringe who are never seen as part of the hard core of a church, I have a wide circle of friends in the Charismatic church, and they are not given to emotional highs at all.

The "emotional high" accusation of Charismatics is just an old chestnut that has been around since the 1960s when I first came to Christ in an AoG church. They laughed it off then, and my current friends laugh it off the same way today. They just put it down to people who are ignorant of what "Charismatic' is all about and just throw out accusations about things they know very little about except viewing a couple videos on Youtube.