Charismatics

[ember]

I label you a "label disliker".

 

[Galatians2-20]

I appreciate your contribution... but can barely understand it because of all the sectarian words... but I want to. If by chance there are others thinking the same thing... could you somehow SIMPLIFY while retaining the specifics????

My appologies dear. I used such language because Crossnote appears to be well versed in theology and I assumed that he would understand. The terminology used is to describe certain theological view points and when those points were established.

 

[ember]

AGRICOLA

DO not forget they are for lost bears as well.

 

[ember]

I mean it for everybody in the sense that we ought to expect an increase in evil men and seducers. We are in a spiritual war and Satan's ministers, like Pharaoh's magicians of old, do have supernatural powers at their disposal at times as well. We need to be careful in relation to what types of "spirits" we allow in our midst. Again, Paul warned of "another Jesus", "another gospel" AND "another spirit". If the Jesus being preached isn't truly the Jesus of scripture and if the gospel being preached isn't truly the gospel of Christ, then we can be sure that there is "another spirit" at work. Do you know what happened in the church that I used to attend? Right in the midst of this alleged "move of the Spirit" which prompted the pastor to actually remove the first 5 rows of pews from the church so people could roll around on the floor laughing their heads off due to alleged "holy laughter", THE EVANGELISM TEAM DISMANTLED. I actually went to the pastor and tried to reason with him by reminding him that the Holy Spirit came to convict or convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment and that He does so indirectly through the preaching of the gospel and that any true "move of the Spirit" would inevitably involve/include the same, but it was like I was talking to a brick wall.

doesn't sound kosher to me...I've seen some off things also, but there is also the real

 

[ember]

Not so much. Watering or rain tends to make the label stakes fade away too quickly. lol

didn't you know you can buy really nice sticks for the ground that are well painted...for things like tomatoes, onions, carrots...just about anything in a veggie garden...and of course there is always indelible ink..depends on your outlook I guess

maybe they don't have those where you live

 

[JesusistheChrist]

doesn't sound kosher to me...I've seen some off things also, but there is also the real

Why'd you have to say "kosher"? Anything related to food makes me hungry. lol.

I definitely believe and know that there is the real and that it's still in operation today having been blessed through the true operation of different gifts of the Spirit in others over the years and having been a blessing myself in that the Spirit has operated through me at times in order to bless others.

 

[Galatians2-20]

As I have said before, I was a charismatic/pentecostal the first 15 years after I got saved. I was lied to in the Vineyard, the Pentecostal church had no time to counsel a couple with marriage issues (10 pastors, 1 couple!) (but we got help later from secular sources!)

The other BIG reason, is that I began to see the shallowness of the doctrine. Everything was about tongues and signs. Although I will admit that some of the Pentecostals did have a heart for the lost.

I also saw that shallow doctrine resulted in shallow and unethical character. Nothing that was preached, was what I was reading in my Bible, which I loved to read and study.

So a few years in an Evangelical Free church, which had an elder board that was dominating and controlling, and kept firing awesome pastors, if they didn't tow their line.

Finally, God called me to a Baptist church. WOW! I finally heard a preacher who was preaching from the same Bible I was reading. His knowledge of the Word of God was amazing. And when he started encouraging the young men to go to Seminary, I heard the call of God - one of the best things that ever happened to me - growing and getting close to God, hearing his voice, and really learning the Word of God.

I am in my third Baptist Convention, after moving a few times. I love my church. People raise their hands, as the Bible says to do, in praise of God. The messages are incredible, with real unity from week to week, even though we have a different preacher every week in the summer. It is God orchestrating the message. That is the Holy Spirit moving!

And the depth of character in the leadership - pastors and elders is astounding. From small things to the big - I see people who are truly deep in their walk with God and teaching it in word and deed to the congregation.

So my answer is that all these nonsense demonstrations are actually destroying the walks of Christians. Instead of digging into God's Word for answers about how to live, they get caught in the very shallow experiences and outer signs, instead of growing in both in spirit and in the knowledge of God's gift to us - the Bible.

I can understand where you are coming from and agree on several points.

I grew up attending a Pentecostal church with my mother so, when I became saved as an adult, I naturally gravitated in that direction. Because of my up bringing, I was already very familiar with their doctrine, I was thrust into a leadership role before I was ready. I was not comfortable in doing so at first but I felt as though that's where God wanted me. It did not take me long to learn why the Lord wanted me there. I was not the only person who had been thrust into a leadership role before they were ready. However, I was probably the only person there humble enough to realize it.

Fortunately, after three years God opened the door for me to attend Bible college. It was then that I began to study the core doctrines of most of today's major denominations and other movements (Calvinism, Arminianism, etc. ). I even studied Baptist doctrine which, in my personal opinion, borrows heavily from other doctrines for my liking which explains why there are so many different kinds.

Shortly after bible college, I began to research the subject of sanctification. That study lasted five years. It was during that time God revealed to me through His word the relational aspects of salvation. I have yet to find a denomination that truly embraces much less teaches that salvation is a person and not a "decision" that we make.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I have yet to find a denomination that truly embraces much less teaches that salvation is a person and not a "decision" that we make.

Interestingly enough, in the Old Testament there are 78 places where the Hebrew word "yĕshuw`ah" or "Yeshua", the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek word "Iesous" from which we derive the name of Jesus,...

Online Etymology Dictionary

...is translated in our English Bibles as "salvation" (65x), "help" (4x), "deliverance" (3x), "health" (3x), "save" (1x), "saving" (1x) and "welfare" (1x):

Hebrew Lexicon :: H3444 (KJV)

Yes, "Yeshua" is "salvation". As long as we continue to abide in Him, we have nothing to worry about.

 

[atwhatcost]

Perhaps you didn't hear, salvation is not about what you or I believe. Salvation is a person. His name is Jesus Christ and unless you live in Him, your salvation is no salvation at all.

I wasn't the one who believes it comes from just the proper domination and historic ties.

 

[atwhatcost]

didn't you know you can buy really nice sticks for the ground that are well painted...for things like tomatoes, onions, carrots...just about anything in a veggie garden...and of course there is always indelible ink..depends on your outlook I guess

maybe they don't have those where you live

Sure, but which kind of onions -- scallions or Bermuda? Which kinds of tomatoes -- Early Girl or Purple Cherokee?

I can tell you "indelable marker" is a misnomer.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

W-S, what do you mean, "a new Pastor came....."? Do you guys not hire your own Pastors?

Most charismatics, who might equally claim to be "full gospel", or "word of faith", are largely of some mainline church beginnings. So it isn't strange for us to call a pastor like the Baptists do, forming a committee, searching out candidates, interviewing, then calling one that we believe the Lord wants to come. If they accept, they are said to "come" to serve, then hired. Maybe another word would be "arrive"? Respond, answer. I think it's protestants who send pastors to congregations.

 

[ladylynn]

I can say that ... If this how they glorify the Lord .. Don't mind them .. instead mind your own worship to the Lord
close you eyes and Praise Him the way you wanted .. Do not let them caught your attention

We cannot stop others in their ways of worshipping its either fake or not its their problem not yours
Remember we will be judge in the last day according to what we have done

What kind of Worship Pleases the Lord?
in John 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers".

Amen, I very much agree with you erikanutella. Went to a charismatic church and felt very uncomfortable. But realized it was my issue, not theirs. Am still working on this.

 

[Galatians2-20]

I wasn't the one who believes it comes from just the proper domination and historic ties.

*Shakes my head*

 

[Galatians2-20]

Most charismatics, who might equally claim to be "full gospel", or "word of faith", are largely of some mainline church beginnings. So it isn't strange for us to call a pastor like the Baptists do, forming a committee, searching out candidates, interviewing, then calling one that we believe the Lord wants to come. If they accept, they are said to "come" to serve, then hired. Maybe another word would be "arrive"? Respond, answer. I think it's protestants who send pastors to congregations.

The AoG denomination operates somewhat similarly to most Baptist churches. CoG & IPHC will only hire pastors from within the denomination. Under normal circumstances, they will pick one from a small list. However, if there is a controversey at the church such as a recent split, they may not have the option to choose.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I wasn't the one who believes it comes from just the proper domination and historic ties.

*Shakes my head*

C'mon. You've got to at least see the humor in her typo. She accidentally (I assume) said "domination" instead of "denomination" and many "denominations" do seek to "dominate" their members...unfortunately.

 

[kaylagrl]

It's not just tongues. It's dancing. It's shouting out something when it's prayer time. (In English, since tongues was already covered.) It's getting up to "share" something that often really sounded good, unless you knew the sharer. (What was said was usually was not the way the people lived their lives.) It's this effort to put on a show for others, even when the people weren't the leaders of the church. It's the worship music being more about getting the troops rallied.

When I was in Charismatic churches, my brother also convinced us to get into Amway. There were little quiet get-togethers that taught the newbies how to sell the product. And then there were bigger get-togethers to rejoice in all things Amway. And then there was the time where a big-wig (high-tiered Amway salesman) came to talk. He had a Rolls Royce back at home. He came on his own private jet. We all went to meet him. We were all dressed up. (I was actually wearing a dress. I don't even wear dresses to churches, unless a big-wig comes to town. lol) And it dawned on me while everyone was going gaga over this guy -- this isn't any different than church. It's a pep rally to talk us into something I honestly never wanted in the first place. I didn't want a fancy car or a jet.

And I didn't want to waste my time looking all spiritual to impress others. It's an experience that doesn't last until kickoff on Sunday football.

As I said,Ive seen both sides in my travels. Independents tend to be the wacky types because they are not held to a govt body and doctrines.AofG,my background is different.A former friend of mine was like that.Very weird,was into every tend that came along.She got up one Sunday at an AofG church and began dancing around with a blanket tied around her neck.The pastor called her into the office and told her to cease and desist.She was livid but she never acted out in service there again.Depends on the pastor.Does he want a crowd at all costs or does he want mature believers?

 

[Galatians2-20]

As I said,Ive seen both sides in my travels. Independents tend to be the wacky types because they are not held to a govt body and doctrines.AofG,my background is different.A former friend of mine was like that.Very weird,was into every tend that came along.She got up one Sunday at an AofG church and began dancing around with a blanket tied around her neck.The pastor called her into the office and told her to cease and desist.She was livid but she never acted out in service there again.Depends on the pastor.Does he want a crowd at all costs or does he want mature believers?

I agree. Most mainline Pentecostal churches are pretty conservative, sometimes too conservative. I have encountered a few in my area that operate more like a YMCA (activity center) and worry about their public image than what the Bible says. However, it's the "nondenominational" Charismatic churches that you really have to keep an eye on. Many lean toward hyper spiritualism, hyper prosperity, hyper grace, Word of Faith or a combination of these.

Don't get me wrong. I have been to some amazing nondenom charismatic churches however, they are few and far between.

 

[atwhatcost]

I can understand where you are coming from and agree on several points.

I grew up attending a Pentecostal church with my mother so, when I became saved as an adult, I naturally gravitated in that direction. Because of my up bringing, I was already very familiar with their doctrine, I was thrust into a leadership role before I was ready. I was not comfortable in doing so at first but I felt as though that's where God wanted me. It did not take me long to learn why the Lord wanted me there. I was not the only person who had been thrust into a leadership role before they were ready. However, I was probably the only person there humble enough to realize it.

Fortunately, after three years God opened the door for me to attend Bible college. It was then that I began to study the core doctrines of most of today's major denominations and other movements (Calvinism, Arminianism, etc. ). I even studied Baptist doctrine which, in my personal opinion, borrows heavily from other doctrines for my liking which explains why there are so many different kinds.

Shortly after bible college, I began to research the subject of sanctification. That study lasted five years. It was during that time God revealed to me through His word the relational aspects of salvation. I have yet to find a denomination that truly embraces much less teaches that salvation is a person and not a "decision" that we make.

I know several. Given your personality, I can't see you fitting in any denomination though.

 

[atwhatcost]

As I said,Ive seen both sides in my travels. Independents tend to be the wacky types because they are not held to a govt body and doctrines.AofG,my background is different.A former friend of mine was like that.Very weird,was into every tend that came along.She got up one Sunday at an AofG church and began dancing around with a blanket tied around her neck.The pastor called her into the office and told her to cease and desist.She was livid but she never acted out in service there again.Depends on the pastor.Does he want a crowd at all costs or does he want mature believers?

Actually, I'm more interested in the sermon, not the show. (I did say I only went to one church that was "weird," and the only thing "weird" about them is they danced differently. Elegant. I just saw no purpose in it, other than showing off how elegant they were.) It always felt like the sermon was a poor denouement (the final part of a story) -- not thought out, not the main point, not related to all that went on previously. If it really was a denouement, it always felt like the same ending, "Everything you saw or heard today was just a dream. Go back to your regular live."

And we did.

 

[ember]

Why'd you have to say "kosher"? Anything related to food makes me hungry. lol.

I definitely believe and know that there is the real and that it's still in operation today having been blessed through the true operation of different gifts of the Spirit in others over the years and having been a blessing myself in that the Spirit has operated through me at times in order to bless others.

LOL! I grew up in the Montreal area and there are lots of Jewish people there...so kosher comes naturally haha

How about smoked meat and real rye bread? have not had that in a long time...we used to go to a Jewish bakery after church sometimes...it was near the church...and we lived far so just made the trip after church...and you would not believe all the good stuff in there...nothing like the real thing!!

Good to read the 2nd part of your post! Amen!