Christ is God

[SilverFox7]

It seems the 24 wings of the creatures somehow are connected to the 24 elders seen with the creatures

they are sort of working in unison the creatures speaking and the wings/ elders acting

That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5: 10). I think this is twofold. They will reign on earth with Christ during the millennium to build a Godly society as ultimately intended, and they will reign on earth forever when the new heaven and new earth are created with the New Jerusalem as God's universal headquarters (Rev. chpts. 21-22).

After this "new song" from the creatures and elders, the heavenly host of angels join the party:

Revelation 5:11-12

New King James Version

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand" (100 million) and throw in a few "thousands of thousands" for an added effect. It's like

 

[SilverFox7]

That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5: 10). I think this is twofold. They will reign on earth with Christ during the millennium to build a Godly society as ultimately intended, and they will reign on earth forever when the new heaven and new earth are created with the New Jerusalem as God's universal headquarters (Rev. chpts. 21-22).

After this "new song" from the creatures and elders, the heavenly host of angels join the party:

Revelation 5:11-12

New King James Version

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand" (100 million) and throw in a few "thousands of thousands" for an added effect. It's like

Here's my full posting...

That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5: 10). I think this is twofold. They will reign on earth with Christ during the millennium to build a Godly society as ultimately intended, and they will reign on earth forever when the new heaven and new earth are created with the New Jerusalem as God's universal headquarters (Rev. chpts. 21-22).

After this "new song" from the creatures and elders, the heavenly host of angels join the party:

Revelation 5:11-12

New King James Version

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand" (100 million) and throw in a few "thousands of thousands" for an added effect. It's like the author of Hebrews describes, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels" (Heb, 12:22). How vast is God's kingdom? Innumerable, beyond calculation, "to infinity and beyond!"

And look at what the say "with a loud voice: Worthy is the Lamb who was slain." Christ's sacrifice is the most pivotal event in human history to date, and it is commemorated in heaven as well! It's significance is even referenced when Christ returns in glory "...with a robe dipped in blood..." (Rev. 19: 13)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5: 10). I think this is twofold. They will reign on earth with Christ during the millennium to build a Godly society as ultimately intended, and they will reign on earth forever when the new heaven and new earth are created with the New Jerusalem as God's universal headquarters (Rev. chpts. 21-22).

After this "new song" from the creatures and elders, the heavenly host of angels join the party:

Revelation 5:11-12

New King James Version

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand" (100 million) and throw in a few "thousands of thousands" for an added effect. It's like

“That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth"

I’d say it’s a reference to Christ and the new heaven ( where he resigns now ) and new earth where he will reign with man in revelation 21.

brother think back to Adam and Eve. They were created for the purpose of reigning upon the earth with God

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but then mankind fell from this state when they believed Satan and started following his word rather than Gods word.

and so Christ is about redeeming us to our purpose with God in the beginning before man sinned and died

man’s designed purpose in creations order and place is here

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. ….And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adams transgression led here

“therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. ….So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is about redemption from that fall reconciliation to our relationship with him and God given place as his chosen children to reinf on earth having dominion wheras the dread of every creature is upon man who riegns ( kings and priests are gods rulers ) just as man’s dread is upon God who is our one soveriegn ruler. Our source of life and creator The Lord God almighty.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


remember christians are waiting for Jesus to return from heaven this will be his next appearance

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭

Notice it isn’t that he comes down to earth again but the dead and then believers yet alive in earth are caught up to meet him above the earth in the air also recall

“Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I’m not sure the doctrine is in the new testemwnt for Jesus to return to this earth , rule it for a thousand years , then return another time from heaven for some reason being he’s already returned to earth once , then destroy it with fire and build a new one .

i know revelations vision appears to show that but I mean if we read about the end times and Jesus return it seems to teach he’s going to destroy this world after his people ascend up into the air

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

I think people are misunderstanding johns apacolypse when they are saying Jesus is to rule this earth for a thousand years with his saints and then after that he’s going to destroy it and build a new one but it’s o my my opinion brother of course

i think the gospel and epistles are clear about Jesus kingdom not being of this world but if the world to come later when he does

bit often i don’t have the same thinking in some subjects with others which to me is alright

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's the beauty of relationships in the Kingdom of God, brother - unity and harmony. It's intriguing that the elders and creatures sing in that new song that Christ the Lamb has "made us kings and priests to our God. And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5: 10). I think this is twofold. They will reign on earth with Christ during the millennium to build a Godly society as ultimately intended, and they will reign on earth forever when the new heaven and new earth are created with the New Jerusalem as God's universal headquarters (Rev. chpts. 21-22).

After this "new song" from the creatures and elders, the heavenly host of angels join the party:

Revelation 5:11-12

New King James Version

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand" (100 million) and throw in a few "thousands of thousands" for an added effect. It's like

“The number of angels present during this scene is astronomical, and John tries to capture how massive the gathering is by using "ten thousand times ten thousand"


“I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. “
Daniel‬ ‭7:13

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6-7, 11-12‬ ‭

…..And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭

often john is referring to priphecy like the number of angels there or like the two olive trees

notice John never sees two olive trees but he says of be he two witnesses “ there are the two olive trees and candlesticks “ he’s actually referring us to what Zachariah saw and discovered

“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:11, 14‬ ‭

john is referring to Zechariah’s prophecy showing us the apacolyptic nature of revelation

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Of course we see Elijah and Moses revealed standing with Jesus the lord of all

 

[TheLearner]

I love the friendly discussion all.

 

[SilverFox7]

I’m not sure the doctrine is in the new testemwnt for Jesus to return to this earth , rule it for a thousand years , then return another time from heaven for some reason being he’s already returned to earth once , then destroy it with fire and build a new one .

i know revelations vision appears to show that but I mean if we read about the end times and Jesus return it seems to teach he’s going to destroy this world after his people ascend up into the air

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

I think people are misunderstanding johns apacolypse when they are saying Jesus is to rule this earth for a thousand years with his saints and then after that he’s going to destroy it and build a new one but it’s o my my opinion brother of course

i think the gospel and epistles are clear about Jesus kingdom not being of this world but if the world to come later when he does

bit often i don’t have the same thinking in some subjects with others which to me is alright

I appreciate your perspective on this issue, brother, and there are several different opinions among believers about events leading up to Jesus' return and what will happen thereafter. The timeline John provides in Revelation 20 is the one I use to fill in the gaps for what will happen after Christ returns that highlights the 1000 year period when Satan is bound (v. 2-3), the saints will reign with Christ for that 1000 year period (v. 4-6), and then Satan will be released after the 1000 years for a short time to deceive the nations again (v. 7-9).

Zechariah does provide some interesting insights into what will take place during the "day of the Lord" that may show a little of what will happen after Christ returns:

Zechariah 14:3-4

New King James Version

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

Note that the Lord will stand on the Mount of Olives, which will be split in two to create a large valley. So, it appears that unless this is figurative (doesn't strike me that way), Jesus will descend all the way to earth to make at least that event happen.

Isaiah chapter 2 also seems to refer to a literal return of Christ as well prior to the new heavens and new earth and likely before the New Jerusalem comes down to earth:

Isaiah 2:2-4

New King James Version

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.

3 Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning [a]hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

However all of this unfolds, what an encouraging vision of the future when all the nations will flow to Jerusalem to learn from the Lord, worship Him, and not have to worry about fighting and dying in senseless warfare that has brought misery to mankind for thousands of years.

Ezekiel describes a temple that will be built in the future where the Lord will dwell in Israel (chpts. 40-47):

Ezekiel 43:4-7

New King James Version

4 And the glory of the Lord came into the [a]temple by way of the gate which faces toward the east. 5 The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the [b]temple.

6 Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. 7 And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their [c]harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.

The Lord "...will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever." However it all works out after Christ returns brother, I'm good with whatever the Lord has planned, of course. We've clearly screwed it all up and need Him to show us and teach us and give us a new heart and a new Spirit to walk in His ways forever!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I appreciate your perspective on this issue, brother, and there are several different opinions among believers about events leading up to Jesus' return and what will happen thereafter. The timeline John provides in Revelation 20 is the one I use to fill in the gaps for what will happen after Christ returns that highlights the 1000 year period when Satan is bound (v. 2-3), the saints will reign with Christ for that 1000 year period (v. 4-6), and then Satan will be released after the 1000 years for a short time to deceive the nations again (v. 7-9).

Zechariah does provide some interesting insights into what will take place during the "day of the Lord" that may show a little of what will happen after Christ returns:

Zechariah 14:3-4

New King James Version

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

Note that the Lord will stand on the Mount of Olives, which will be split in two to create a large valley. So, it appears that unless this is figurative (doesn't strike me that way), Jesus will descend all the way to earth to make at least that event happen.

Isaiah chapter 2 also seems to refer to a literal return of Christ as well prior to the new heavens and new earth and likely before the New Jerusalem comes down to earth:

Isaiah 2:2-4

New King James Version

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.

3 Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning [a]hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

However all of this unfolds, what an encouraging vision of the future when all the nations will flow to Jerusalem to learn from the Lord, worship Him, and not have to worry about fighting and dying in senseless warfare that has brought misery to mankind for thousands of years.

Ezekiel describes a temple that will be built in the future where the Lord will dwell in Israel (chpts. 40-47):

Ezekiel 43:4-7

New King James Version

4 And the glory of the Lord came into the [a]temple by way of the gate which faces toward the east. 5 The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the [b]temple.

6 Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. 7 And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their [c]harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.

The Lord "...will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever." However it all works out after Christ returns brother, I'm good with whatever the Lord has planned, of course. We've clearly screwed it all up and need Him to show us and teach us and give us a new heart and a new Spirit to walk in His ways forever!

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Ezekiel describes a temple that will be built in the future where the Lord will dwell in Israel”

His body is the temple rebuilt where God dwells

ezekiel is taken into heaven and sees the same city John sees in heaven Mount Zion the city of God

Ezekiel’s prophecy

“In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:2‬ ‭

johns revelation

“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭47:1, 8-9, 12‬ ‭

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christ is on his throne already brother n zion the heavenly Jerusalem

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30, 32-33, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The kingdom of Godnis alrwady in heaven after Jesus died and rose and ascended and the saints rose up from death

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ( Jesus ascended )

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-11‬ ‭

they are already on the kingdom riegning

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s just Not of this world that’s why this can be true

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭

It’s just not of this world

 

[SilverFox7]

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Ezekiel describes a temple that will be built in the future where the Lord will dwell in Israel”

His body is the temple rebuilt where God dwells

ezekiel is taken into heaven and sees the same city John sees in heaven Mount Zion the city of God

Ezekiel’s prophecy

“In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:2‬ ‭

johns revelation

“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭47:1, 8-9, 12‬ ‭

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christ is on his throne already brother n zion the heavenly Jerusalem

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30, 32-33, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The kingdom of Godnis alrwady in heaven after Jesus died and rose and ascended and the saints rose up from death

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ( Jesus ascended )

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-11‬ ‭

they are already on the kingdom riegning

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s just Not of this world that’s why this can be true

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭

It’s just not of this world

Good stuff, my friend! I can't wait to see how all of this plays out in the future when Christ returns. It makes sense that Christ will be ruling from His throne in heaven, and David is prophesied to be king (Christ's "prince") over Israel again:

Jeremiah 30:8-9

New King James Version

8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

Based on the context of Jeremiah chapter 30, it looks like David will be raised up for Israel to rule them once again under Christ's reign as King of kings. Israel and Judah will be brought out of captivity once again (i.e. "Jacob's trouble" v. 7) to live in the land God promised and gave to them originally.

Ezekiel references this event as well:

Ezekiel 34:23-24

New King James Version

23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

What a remarkable new age for Israel and all of humanity after Christ comes back as promised, destroys his enemies, binds Satan and his demons for 1000 years, and establishes peace and justice on the planet under His government. We get a little picture from Ezekiel and other sections of the Bible on how beautiful this new world will be:

Ezekiel 34:25-31

New King James Version

25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden[a] of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’

31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Good stuff, my friend! I can't wait to see how all of this plays out in the future when Christ returns. It makes sense that Christ will be ruling from His throne in heaven, and David is prophesied to be king (Christ's "prince") over Israel again:

Jeremiah 30:8-9

New King James Version

8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

Based on the context of Jeremiah chapter 30, it looks like David will be raised up for Israel to rule them once again under Christ's reign as King of kings. Israel and Judah will be brought out of captivity once again (i.e. "Jacob's trouble" v. 7) to live in the land God promised and gave to them originally.

Ezekiel references this event as well:

Ezekiel 34:23-24

New King James Version

23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

What a remarkable new age for Israel and all of humanity after Christ comes back as promised, destroys his enemies, binds Satan and his demons for 1000 years, and establishes peace and justice on the planet under His government. We get a little picture from Ezekiel and other sections of the Bible on how beautiful this new world will be:

Ezekiel 34:25-31

New King James Version

25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden[a] of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’

31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

….but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

…But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7, 10-13‬ ‭KJV‬

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Good stuff, my friend! I can't wait to see how all of this plays out in the future when Christ returns. It makes sense that Christ will be ruling from His throne in heaven, and David is prophesied to be king (Christ's "prince") over Israel again:

Jeremiah 30:8-9

New King James Version

8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

Based on the context of Jeremiah chapter 30, it looks like David will be raised up for Israel to rule them once again under Christ's reign as King of kings. Israel and Judah will be brought out of captivity once again (i.e. "Jacob's trouble" v. 7) to live in the land God promised and gave to them originally.

Ezekiel references this event as well:

Ezekiel 34:23-24

New King James Version

23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

What a remarkable new age for Israel and all of humanity after Christ comes back as promised, destroys his enemies, binds Satan and his demons for 1000 years, and establishes peace and justice on the planet under His government. We get a little picture from Ezekiel and other sections of the Bible on how beautiful this new world will be:

Ezekiel 34:25-31

New King James Version

25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden[a] of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’

31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

Brother consider Hebrews chapter eleven and how Abraham’s promised land was of faith. He walked through the earth and within the land God promised his descendants but notice Abraham never settled in tbat land he was always looking for the heavenly promise God made him tbat he couldn’t see

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

…By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

( this part here )

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

( Abraham and his seeds promised land isn’t actually on earth we receive it after hoping for what he has promised us we’ll never see it u til we die in faith like they did believing his promises )

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1, 8-10, 13-14, 16‬ ‭

Abraham journeyed through the land of promise but he never settled down he always picked up and moved around even until Jacobs tribe ( isreal ) was led into Egypt during the great famine

anraham isaac and Jacob were always looking for the second promise made when abraham was called to gaze into the heavens which he could only imagine and hope for the promises of faith and not those his feet touched as he soujourned through Abraham walked with the lord and eas looking for the kingdom like we are

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they walked in this world by faith knowing they were strangers and pilgrims on this earth. Only passing through just a pilgrim passing through towards home and the promised land

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭

“Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭

“and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:56‬ ‭

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

( at the same time on earth )
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after Jesus went up into look what happens on the earth

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when you read what was happening in the epistles on earth you find the adversary Satan warring against the church on earth after Jesus ascended into the heavens

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you can see what was happening in earth after Jesus ascended up to the throne revelation gives us glimpses also onto what happened as he went up and received all power and glory and shed forth the Holy Ghost from his throne the promised throne at the right hand of God for the promised son of Abraham , promised son of David the man child to be born and rule

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ,

the son of David,

the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[JaumeJ]

Deu 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Deu 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.

“If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE Lord THY GOD; then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:58-59, 62-64‬ ‭KJV‬‬

conditions

“Stand in the gate of the LORD's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; if ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

( they were always given the same condition if they repented and obeyed they would prosper on the land , if they broke his covenant they would be destroyed from off the land )

Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

( sounds a lot like hypergrace whatever we do doesn’t matter we’re saved )


Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD. But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.

And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.

Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭7:2-17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this never changed it was the law of thier land it could be a blessing of a curse

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt

put the blessing upon mount Gerizim,

and the curse upon mount Ebal.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-29‬ ‭

He delivered them into the land but they cursed and defiled it. Israel’s land had a law attached to it the prophets never changed that it became “ if you will repent and do right retirn to th e lord and keep the law then I will make you to dwell safely in that land …but if you don’t I’m going to destroy you and choose another people

“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:2-3, 6-7, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and another land

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭


The ot wasn’t without condition it relied fully on tbier response to Gods call to repentance and obedience to thier covenant law of thier land

 

[SilverFox7]

Brother consider Hebrews chapter eleven and how Abraham’s promised land was of faith. He walked through the earth and within the land God promised his descendants but notice Abraham never settled in tbat land he was always looking for the heavenly promise God made him tbat he couldn’t see

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

…By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

( this part here )

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

( Abraham and his seeds promised land isn’t actually on earth we receive it after hoping for what he has promised us we’ll never see it u til we die in faith like they did believing his promises )

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1, 8-10, 13-14, 16‬ ‭

Abraham journeyed through the land of promise but he never settled down he always picked up and moved around even until Jacobs tribe ( isreal ) was led into Egypt during the great famine

anraham isaac and Jacob were always looking for the second promise made when abraham was called to gaze into the heavens which he could only imagine and hope for the promises of faith and not those his feet touched as he soujourned through Abraham walked with the lord and eas looking for the kingdom like we are

Amen brother. This life is transitory, and our ultimate hope is receiving the gift of eternal life and dwelling with Christ in His Kingdom forever. We are pilgrims on a great journey towards the Promised Land in heaven, and we are ambassadors of that Kingdom today spreading the good news that Jesus suffered and died for our sins, has reconciled us to God, and He will return again as our King.

I don't think He is going to stand up there in the clouds for a long period of time at His return, however:

Acts 1:6-12

New King James Version

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [a]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Look at their question: "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" They are wondering about the physical restoration to the nation of Israel as promised in multiple passages of unfulfilled prophecy in the Old Testament. Jesus told them that it is "not for you to know times or seasons" but instead they and we as the Church are empowered by the Holy Spirit to be witnesses of Christ to all the earth.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Jesus will return "...in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.

Interestingly, the ascension took place from the Mount of Olives. the same place Zechariah notes that "...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zech. 14: 4). This is the same mountain that Jesus gave the famous "Olivet" prophecy detailing end time events and what the Kingdom of Heaven is like (Matt. chpts. 24 & 25). I think Christ is going to literally set His feet on the Mount of Olives "in that day" of His return to earth. "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be--The Lord is one, and His name one" (Zech. 14:9). And check this out,

Zechariah 14:16-17

New King James Version

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

The Feast of Tabernacles? Why this feast?

 

[SilverFox7]

Amen brother. This life is transitory, and our ultimate hope is receiving the gift of eternal life and dwelling with Christ in His Kingdom forever. We are pilgrims on a great journey towards the Promised Land in heaven, and we are ambassadors of that Kingdom today spreading the good news that Jesus suffered and died for our sins, has reconciled us to God, and He will return again as our King.

I don't think He is going to stand up there in the clouds for a long period of time at His return, however:

Acts 1:6-12

New King James Version

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [a]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Look at their question: "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" They are wondering about the physical restoration to the nation of Israel as promised in multiple passages of unfulfilled prophecy in the Old Testament. Jesus told them that it is "not for you to know times or seasons" but instead they and we as the Church are empowered by the Holy Spirit to be witnesses of Christ to all the earth.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Jesus will return "...in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.

Interestingly, the ascension took place from the Mount of Olives. the same place Zechariah notes that "...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zech. 14: 4). This is the same mountain that Jesus gave the famous "Olivet" prophecy detailing end time events and what the Kingdom of Heaven is like (Matt. chpts. 24 & 25). I think Christ is going to literally set His feet on the Mount of Olives "in that day" of His return to earth. "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be--The Lord is one, and His name one" (Zech. 14:9). And check this out,

Zechariah 14:16-17

New King James Version

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

The Feast of Tabernacles? Why this feast?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen brother. This life is transitory, and our ultimate hope is receiving the gift of eternal life and dwelling with Christ in His Kingdom forever. We are pilgrims on a great journey towards the Promised Land in heaven, and we are ambassadors of that Kingdom today spreading the good news that Jesus suffered and died for our sins, has reconciled us to God, and He will return again as our King.

I don't think He is going to stand up there in the clouds for a long period of time at His return, however:

Acts 1:6-12

New King James Version

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [a]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Look at their question: "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" They are wondering about the physical restoration to the nation of Israel as promised in multiple passages of unfulfilled prophecy in the Old Testament. Jesus told them that it is "not for you to know times or seasons" but instead they and we as the Church are empowered by the Holy Spirit to be witnesses of Christ to all the earth.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Jesus will return "...in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.

Interestingly, the ascension took place from the Mount of Olives. the same place Zechariah notes that "...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zech. 14: 4). This is the same mountain that Jesus gave the famous "Olivet" prophecy detailing end time events and what the Kingdom of Heaven is like (Matt. chpts. 24 & 25). I think Christ is going to literally set His feet on the Mount of Olives "in that day" of His return to earth. "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be--The Lord is one, and His name one" (Zech. 14:9). And check this out,

Zechariah 14:16-17

New King James Version

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

The Feast of Tabernacles? Why this feast?

yeah brother this is what im saying though

" For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."




Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Nevertheless , we according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."


do you see how peters telling the church even then that were waiting for that day ? and not for israels sudden restoration on this earth ? but instead , this earths end in fire and destruction when jesus returns from heaven and how the promise is for a whole new creation?a new clean and pure jerusalem ? but also the utter destruction of this whole world which is to become the lake of fire designated to punish the ungodly

"rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day. "

Im saying there are to jerusalems one is cursed one is blessed forever

 

[TheLearner]

enjoyed this

 

[SilverFox7]

do you see how peters telling the church even then that were waiting for that day ? and not for israels sudden restoration on this earth ? but instead , this earths end in fire and destruction when jesus returns from heaven and how the promise is for a whole new creation?a new clean and pure jerusalem ? but also the utter destruction of this whole world which is to become the lake of fire designated to punish the ungodly

We're on the same page overall, my friend. It's the timing of the New Heaven and New Earth from Revelation chapters 20 & 21 that seem to imply a sequential timeline after Christ's return:

-Satan is bound for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 1-3)

-Saints will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 4)

-"Rest of the dead" resurrected and judged after the 1000 years (Rev. 20: 5, 11-13)

-Satan released for a short time to "deceive the nations" (he will never learn or change) and then tossed into the Lake of Fire forever (Rev. 20: 7-9)

-Unrepentant people along with death and the grave "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20: 14-15)

After these events and the 1000 year period covered by John in chapter 20, then John starts describing the "new heaven and a new earth" in chapter 21. So, from my point of view, the New Heavens, New Earth, and the New Jerusalem will take place after the "millennium."

I think what Peter is referring to in II Peter 3: 10-12 is what's going to happen during the tribulation leading up to the great battle between Christ and our enemies. This planet and the universe on the whole will be shaken and brought to the brink of destruction. It looks like at least 1/3 of mankind will perish (Rev. 9: 15), and the landscape will be set on fire literally, leaving devastation throughout the entire planet. Based on my studies and listening to a lot of credible sources, the 1000 year period will be a physical restoration on this planet, including the redemption of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land.

If the new heavens and new earth are initiated at Christ's return, hallelujah! That's what we ultimately look forward to for sure as God's children. However, I'm afraid it's not going to be that easy, and I suspect that the 1000 year period is not going to be all fun and games. There will be a lot of work involved cleaning up the mess we have made during these 6000 years or so. And it will be a lessons-learned experience that life in rebellion towards our Creator yields nothing but destruction and death. Look at how Gaza has been leveled - that's just a microcosm of what this world will look like on the whole after the tribulation if mankind doesn't repent.

When Peter says, "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells (II Peter 3: 13), he is referring to what John describes to close out his vision in Revelation chapters 21 & 22. That will take place after the millennium from what I see right now. Am I wrong in some areas? Probably because there are a lot of pieces to this end time puzzle that we don't know how they all fit together right now. God will reveal all of that in due time.

I'm really enjoying this deep dive and theoretical discussion of prophecy, brother! I'm sorry if I'm taxing your brain too much

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We're on the same page overall, my friend. It's the timing of the New Heaven and New Earth from Revelation chapters 20 & 21 that seem to imply a sequential timeline after Christ's return:

-Satan is bound for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 1-3)

-Saints will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 4)

-"Rest of the dead" resurrected and judged after the 1000 years (Rev. 20: 5, 11-13)

-Satan released for a short time to "deceive the nations" (he will never learn or change) and then tossed into the Lake of Fire forever (Rev. 20: 7-9)

-Unrepentant people along with death and the grave "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20: 14-15)

After these events and the 1000 year period covered by John in chapter 20, then John starts describing the "new heaven and a new earth" in chapter 21. So, from my point of view, the New Heavens, New Earth, and the New Jerusalem will take place after the "millennium."

I think what Peter is referring to in II Peter 3: 10-12 is what's going to happen during the tribulation leading up to the great battle between Christ and our enemies. This planet and the universe on the whole will be shaken and brought to the brink of destruction. It looks like at least 1/3 of mankind will perish (Rev. 9: 15), and the landscape will be set on fire literally, leaving devastation throughout the entire planet. Based on my studies and listening to a lot of credible sources, the 1000 year period will be a physical restoration on this planet, including the redemption of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land.

If the new heavens and new earth are initiated at Christ's return, hallelujah! That's what we ultimately look forward to for sure as God's children. However, I'm afraid it's not going to be that easy, and I suspect that the 1000 year period is not going to be all fun and games. There will be a lot of work involved cleaning up the mess we have made during these 6000 years or so. And it will be a lessons-learned experience that life in rebellion towards our Creator yields nothing but destruction and death. Look at how Gaza has been leveled - that's just a microcosm of what this world will look like on the whole after the tribulation if mankind doesn't repent.

When Peter says, "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells (II Peter 3: 13), he is referring to what John describes to close out his vision in Revelation chapters 21 & 22. That will take place after the millennium from what I see right now. Am I wrong in some areas? Probably because there are a lot of pieces to this end time puzzle that we don't know how they all fit together right now. God will reveal all of that in due time.

I'm really enjoying this deep dive and theoretical discussion of prophecy, brother! I'm sorry if I'm taxing your brain too much

Yes brother I enjoy discussing scripture a lot in the right spirit like we do thanks for that and not at all taxing lol interesting but not taxing I always enjoy the conversation in the right spirit

“If the new heavens and new earth are initiated at Christ's return, hallelujah! That's what we ultimately look forward to for sure as God's children. However, I'm afraid it's not going to be that easy, and I suspect that the 1000 year period”


“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what is going to happen when Jesus returns brother total destruction by fire it’s just like when Noah was told the worlds going to end we’ve been told the same but with fire when Jesus returns

This will happen

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall ( be changed to our spiritual bodies of the resurrection ) be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Suddenly in an instant

“ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.”( and caught up together in the air with the lord )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:42, 44, 49-52‬ ‭

It will happen quickly because of this after the dead are all raised up

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: ( not in the book of life ) who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

The doctrine does t really fit anywhere in all of scripture for a restored earthly Jerusalem where martyrs rule with Jesus for a Thousand years ect

that verse is part of a vision he’s seeing repeatedly in the book it’s not about sequential events at his return

Did you notice how in revelation it describes a whole kingdom that is full of people in heaven celebrating salvstion and life ? while the earth is warring with Satan ? And saints are being destroyed by the beast ?
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭103:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

where would people be reigning with Christ for a thousand years if not where he is ?

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t know brother I’ve always looked into that theory because of that same verse but nothing in the doctrine ever allows for that to be the case literally

those time periods aren’t literal in my view like this one

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

I dont believe this means a literal time period of an hour . But signifies a short period of time . In the same way “ thousand years “ in my own view
Signifies a very extended period of time

Not being literally calculations but spiritually significant imagery repeating the things in revelations many visions of Christ and his kingdom in heaven

note how many times John sees different groups of people from every nation and language and people claiming salvation alive and we’ll celebrating free from all harm in heaven long before the end when the world is restored ? Jesus and his kingdom is in heaven he’ll remain there until the restoration of all things as the prophets all foretold

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18-21‬ ‭

There’s a heavenly kingdom that one day will come to earth Jerusalems in heaven
And it’s full of living souls even now

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s when everything will be restored and he’ll be among the people until then the city of God is in heaven

 

[SilverFox7]

Yes brother I enjoy discussing scripture a lot in the right spirit like we do thanks for that and not at all taxing lol interesting but not taxing I always enjoy the conversation in the right spirit

“If the new heavens and new earth are initiated at Christ's return, hallelujah! That's what we ultimately look forward to for sure as God's children. However, I'm afraid it's not going to be that easy, and I suspect that the 1000 year period”


“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what is going to happen when Jesus returns brother total destruction by fire it’s just like when Noah was told the worlds going to end we’ve been told the same but with fire when Jesus returns

This will happen

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall ( be changed to our spiritual bodies of the resurrection ) be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Suddenly in an instant

“ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.”( and caught up together in the air with the lord )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:42, 44, 49-52‬ ‭

It will happen quickly because of this after the dead are all raised up

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: ( not in the book of life ) who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

The doctrine does t really fit anywhere in all of scripture for a restored earthly Jerusalem where martyrs rule with Jesus for a Thousand years ect

that verse is part of a vision he’s seeing repeatedly in the book it’s not about sequential events at his return

Did you notice how in revelation it describes a whole kingdom that is full of people in heaven celebrating salvstion and life ? while the earth is warring with Satan ? And saints are being destroyed by the beast ?
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭103:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

where would people be reigning with Christ for a thousand years if not where he is ?

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t know brother I’ve always looked into that theory because of that same verse but nothing in the doctrine ever allows for that to be the case literally

those time periods aren’t literal in my view like this one

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

I dont believe this means a literal time period of an hour . But signifies a short period of time . In the same way “ thousand years “ in my own view
Signifies a very extended period of time

Not being literally calculations but spiritually significant imagery repeating the things in revelations many visions of Christ and his kingdom in heaven

note how many times John sees different groups of people from every nation and language and people claiming salvation alive and we’ll celebrating free from all harm in heaven long before the end when the world is restored ? Jesus and his kingdom is in heaven he’ll remain there until the restoration of all things as the prophets all foretold

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18-21‬ ‭

There’s a heavenly kingdom that one day will come to earth Jerusalems in heaven
And it’s full of living souls even now

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s when everything will be restored and he’ll be among the people until then the city of God is in heaven

I love all of the verses you shared here, brother, and I have no problem with your views of God's plans for us in the future. Again, I think we're more aligned than we realize on the crucial matters, and the rest are just a matter of our spiritual upbringings in the faith. One thing is for certain - all of us as Christians will be surprised to one degree or another at events happening at the time of Jesus' return. Just look at the diversity of opinions we have in the Church about end time events and the new heaven and new earth. It certainly shouldn't be a matter of division but instead a mystery to appreciate, wonder about, and generate hope.

Look at Jesus' first coming that caught most completely off guard. Who anticipated that our great God was going to enter our world as a baby instead of a mighty Messiah who would deliver the Jewish people from the grips of occupation by the Gentiles? Not many even though it was there buried in multiple scriptures for centuries. I was reading through Luke's account of the Triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem, and He rode in on a colt, not a powerful white horse. And what I didn't realize until this reading with the prophecy of Zechariah fresh in mind is He descended into Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives (Luke 19: 29, 37).

"The mountain called Olivet..." was a special place to Jesus, and he returned there at night after teaching in the temple during the day (Luke 21: 37). This certainly was not what the Jewish population was expecting from their Lord and Redeemer:

Zechariah 14:1-4

New King James Version

14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your [a]spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses [b]rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We're on the same page overall, my friend. It's the timing of the New Heaven and New Earth from Revelation chapters 20 & 21 that seem to imply a sequential timeline after Christ's return:

-Satan is bound for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 1-3)

-Saints will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years (Rev. 20: 4)

-"Rest of the dead" resurrected and judged after the 1000 years (Rev. 20: 5, 11-13)

-Satan released for a short time to "deceive the nations" (he will never learn or change) and then tossed into the Lake of Fire forever (Rev. 20: 7-9)

-Unrepentant people along with death and the grave "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20: 14-15)

After these events and the 1000 year period covered by John in chapter 20, then John starts describing the "new heaven and a new earth" in chapter 21. So, from my point of view, the New Heavens, New Earth, and the New Jerusalem will take place after the "millennium."

I think what Peter is referring to in II Peter 3: 10-12 is what's going to happen during the tribulation leading up to the great battle between Christ and our enemies. This planet and the universe on the whole will be shaken and brought to the brink of destruction. It looks like at least 1/3 of mankind will perish (Rev. 9: 15), and the landscape will be set on fire literally, leaving devastation throughout the entire planet. Based on my studies and listening to a lot of credible sources, the 1000 year period will be a physical restoration on this planet, including the redemption of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land.

If the new heavens and new earth are initiated at Christ's return, hallelujah! That's what we ultimately look forward to for sure as God's children. However, I'm afraid it's not going to be that easy, and I suspect that the 1000 year period is not going to be all fun and games. There will be a lot of work involved cleaning up the mess we have made during these 6000 years or so. And it will be a lessons-learned experience that life in rebellion towards our Creator yields nothing but destruction and death. Look at how Gaza has been leveled - that's just a microcosm of what this world will look like on the whole after the tribulation if mankind doesn't repent.

When Peter says, "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells (II Peter 3: 13), he is referring to what John describes to close out his vision in Revelation chapters 21 & 22. That will take place after the millennium from what I see right now. Am I wrong in some areas? Probably because there are a lot of pieces to this end time puzzle that we don't know how they all fit together right now. God will reveal all of that in due time.

I'm really enjoying this deep dive and theoretical discussion of prophecy, brother! I'm sorry if I'm taxing your brain too much

brother consider this just some quotes from a long chapter I’m sure your familiar with and will look at if necassary but to highlight what I’m saying

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

it is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

( this next part here )
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ( flesh and blood is of this world to live and exist in this world , the kingdom of God is not of this world )

neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,( from flesh to spirit bodies of the resurrection ) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, ( remember he’s been talking about the resurrection bodies all along how the spiritual person is raised not the flesh and blood of earth ) and we shall be changed. ( also glorified spiritual bodies )

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

( flesh and blood perishes the spirit of God of which Christian’s are born , does not )

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 44, 47-53, 57-58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

had to leave tbat last part lol we need to hear it more often but the point is about when we are resurrected it’s for a better place and not to live again here in this broken corrupt world but God has better plans .

its resurrexted spiritual people riegnk g in heaven with chrirt is what I’m saying the “ spirits of just men made perfect by his blood in company of angels “

there’s a kingdom and better place we can’t see u less we hear about it and believe

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they ( ot israel ) escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, ( Moses) much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:” ( Jesus in the gospel of his kingdom )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point in all this brother is the thousand year reign is after those martyrs and saints were resurrected spiritual bodies meant for the heavenly places with jesus in his kingdom where he is ruling now and since he received the power and authority and kingdom we see him receiving in revelation chapter 5 and heard about king before in Daniel chapter 7 and all the prophets really spoke of the messiah and his kingdom even on figures of the law Moses clearly spake of him also .

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My view is that This is in heaven here

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


but this part is happening on earth

“And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:7-9‬ ‭

just like this is in heaven

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. “

( while at the same time this is on earth )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
‭‭

….And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe the thousand years is a the period of time between Jesus two comings just a figure to be understood as an very extended period of time that those spirits of those men who preached the gospel and did all those miracles and established all of it and suffered and were martyred after by rome the seventh head of the beast who overcomes the saints on earth when Satan goes to war with them

I believe those men are already in heaven the preists of God reigning with him and just tbat the thousand years is a figure of a really really long time