Christ is God

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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#41

[HR][/HR]~—•—○— CHALLENGE —○—•—~
[HR][/HR]
Show from scripture that Jesus the Messiah is God.

[HR][/HR]

i'll go first:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(John 1:1-5)

The Christ is that Word, who pitched His tent with us, came to His own, but wasn't known by them, who loved me, and gave Himself! He is the Light and the Resurrection and the Life!


[HR][/HR]

OK, your turn! Go!!

Excellent thread - exactly the tonic that is needed right now!
My contribution:

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your[a] joy may be full.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#42
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

If we have Christ's righteousness = God's righteousness = hence Jesus Christ is God in the flesh now as the Son of Man and is our representative before the Father.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
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#43
How do you explain this from Hebrews? God applies characteristics to Christ that only God can possess. He also calls him God.

Hebrews 1:

8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”


Jesus is being referred to as YHWH here, Psalm 102 being referenced. Notice also that these things are what God the Father is saying of God the Son. Same in the KJV.

Hebrews 1:8-12King James Version (KJV)

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.



Is it your belief that Jesus is not God?

My Belief is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. the only begotten of God sent from God to save the world :) was always , will ever be is seated at Gods right Hand, is the One mediator between God and Man.

i dont think its wrong for anyone to call Him God, i believe Gods testimony that He gave of His Son many times over. and that without the belief that God sent His only Son into the World to save the world, there is no salvation.

the question should never be " is Jesus God" it should always be, is Jesus the Christ and Son of the Living God? <<<Because that is the truth that saves mankind, that God gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting Life.

you will not find the equal to you must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, ots never " you must believe that Jesus is God.

the message of the Son of God is the gospel.

romans 1:1-4 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

thats my belief. again, its not wrong for some to say He is God, because He is the Eternal Son of God. He is my Lord, His Father is the One true and Only God.

1 timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

son of man- son of God
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#44
My Belief is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. the only begotten of God sent from God to save the world :) was always , will ever be is seated at Gods right Hand, is the One mediator between God and Man.

i dont think its wrong for anyone to call Him God, i believe Gods testimony that He gave of His Son many times over. and that without the belief that God sent His only Son into the World to save the world, there is no salvation.

the question should never be " is Jesus God" it should always be, is Jesus the Christ and Son of the Living God? <<<Because that is the truth that saves mankind, that God gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting Life.

you will not find the equal to you must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, ots never " you must believe that Jesus is God.

the message of the Son of God is the gospel.

romans 1:1-4 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

thats my belief. again, its not wrong for some to say He is God, because He is the Eternal Son of God. He is my Lord, His Father is the One true and Only God.

1 timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

son of man- son of God
Both are true though. He is the Son of God eternally existing as a co-equal with God, and is also God, but distinct from God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. You see Jesus commune with God the Father, proving they are distinctly different persons, but Jesus is also referred to as, and attributed characteristics of, God, making him God.

The bible teaches us that God shares his glory with no one. To say he shares his glory with one who is not God is to undermine that truth. God also says that no God was formed before him and there will be none formed after him, therefore, Jesus must be God and not a lessor deity, whether he pre-existed or otherwise.

John 1:1 shows from the Greek that Jesus eternally existed as God, and was with God (literally meaning in the Greek face to face and in communion with God), and through him all things were created (an attribute ascribed only to God).
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#45
This is proof as well:

But the *LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" - Genesis 3:9 (*Again, Jehovah, who is God, who is Preincarnate Christ)


I've often wondered when YHWH came into the garden and asked where Adam was, if that portended His humanity at the first advent. I say this because in His humanity there was not always Omniscience specifically concerning the timing of the Second Advent.

I know that sounds weird but that is where my thoughts were on that. IOW people would say that Christ wasn't omniscient in the Garden due to His asking where Adam was.

Also as a freebie, I see the Ram in the thicket (Genesis 22:13) as a picture of Christ and the crown of thorns, but that is just me. I could be wrong but I've often wondered these things.

OK, go on the attack, call me a heretic. :D

That being said Genesis 3:9 proves Christ as God.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#46
correct me if im wrong here but

in hebrew

Elohim is God as father son and holy spirit together as one God

3 persons
1 God

the father singular sounds like Ya-who-uh
the son singular sounds like Ya-shu-uh
and the holy spirit singular sounds like KO-desh ROO-ah
or roo-ah-hah-kodesh


all three are equally God

but like all 3 persons of the God head serve a specific role
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#47
This is proof as well:

But the *LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" - Genesis 3:9 (*Again, Jehovah, who is God, who is Preincarnate Christ)


I've often wondered when YHWH came into the garden and asked where Adam was, if that portended His humanity at the first advent. I say this because in His humanity there was not always Omniscience specifically concerning the timing of the Second Advent.

I know that sounds weird but that is where my thoughts were on that. IOW people would say that Christ wasn't omniscient in the Garden due to His asking where Adam was.

Also as a freebie, I see the Ram in the thicket (Genesis 22:13) as a picture of Christ and the crown of thorns, but that is just me. I could be wrong but I've often wondered these things.

OK, go on the attack, call me a heretic. :D

That being said Genesis 3:9 proves Christ as God.
Brother you raise a good question!

I would submit that from Jehovah's perspective that question was a rhetorical one.
Try looking at that passage (the whole of Genesis Chapter 3) from the perspective that Jehovah already knew the answer to the questions posed and rather ask yourself what He was doing there in the first place.
Once I figured that one out I howled for hours, the emotion I felt was just that overwhelming!

Blessings

GraceNpeace
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#48
Brother you raise a good question!

I would submit that from Jehovah's perspective that question was a rhetorical one.
Try looking at that passage (the whole of Genesis Chapter 3) from the perspective that Jehovah already knew the answer to the questions posed and rather ask yourself what He was doing there in the first place.
Once I figured that one out I howled for hours, the emotion I felt was just that overwhelming!

Blessings

GraceNpeace
Good stuff. Yes, I believe YHWH to be Omniscient, and being incarnate at first advent subject to the Father and in that aspect only the Father knew the timing of the second.

Now, as to your "what was He doing there in the first place?" are you thinking of the NT Gethsemane?
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#49
correct me if im wrong here but

in hebrew

Elohim is God as father son and holy spirit together as one God

3 persons
1 God

the father singular sounds like Ya-who-uh
the son singular sounds like Ya-shu-uh
and the holy spirit singular sounds like KO-desh ROO-ah
or roo-ah-hah-kodesh


all three are equally God

but like all 3 persons of the God head serve a specific role
Elohim is a plural noun used as a singular making parts of the bible grammatically incorrect as far as my understanding goes. I couldn't explain this, though I've heard it from many people. It denotes plurality within the God-head but is referred to as a singular being. Something like that.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#50
Good stuff. Yes, I believe YHWH to be Omniscient, and being incarnate at first advent subject to the Father and in that aspect only the Father knew the timing of the second.

Now, as to your "what was He doing there in the first place?" are you thinking of the NT Gethsemane?
No.
Don't project yourself to NT times.
Look at what is going on in the passage - read it and understand it for itself.

Yes, once you have "got it" it explains much going forward.
This is all about the character and nature of God.
Remember, Genesis is the book of beginnings.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#51
No.
Don't project yourself to NT times.
Look at what is going on in the passage - read it and understand it for itself.

Yes, once you have "got it" it explains much going forward.
This is all about the character and nature of God.
Remember, Genesis is the book of beginnings.
I'll have to work on that brother, thanks.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,034
13,245
113
#52
thank you all so much for reading & taking part in this!

here is another proof from scripture, that hasn't been posted here yet:

Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,
. . .
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

(Zechariah 12:1, 10)

YHWH states that Israel will look on HIM, the One they have pierced, and mourn -- He identifies HIMSELF as "
the One they have pierced" and also indicates that they "will look upon" HIM.

Jesus is very clearly the One who they pierced -- and He also is the One who every eye will see when He returns.

this unequivocally makes Jesus Christ = YHWH


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,034
13,245
113
#53
Elohim is a plural noun used as a singular making parts of the bible grammatically incorrect as far as my understanding goes. I couldn't explain this, though I've heard it from many people. It denotes plurality within the God-head but is referred to as a singular being. Something like that.

((i don't care to let the thread follow related topics within itself, tho i don't want to encourage it to be derailed.. ))

i have been told that grammatical plurality ((in noun form)) in Hebrew, and in some other languages, is sometimes used to signify importance and/or emphasis, not plurality in number.

in the Bible in particular, in Hebrew, the word "elohim" is a plural noun, which in every case that is referring to God, is used with a singular form of a verb -- so that the plurality of the noun is not signifying 'more than one elohim' but is grammatically indicating that THE ((only)) Elohim is the one being written about, the singularity of God being expressed by the singular case of the verbs used.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#54
thank you all so much for reading & taking part in this!

here is another proof from scripture, that hasn't been posted here yet:

Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,
. . .
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

(Zechariah 12:1, 10)

YHWH states that Israel will look on HIM, the One they have pierced, and mourn -- He identifies HIMSELF as "
the One they have pierced" and also indicates that they "will look upon" HIM.

Jesus is very clearly the One who they pierced -- and He also is the One who every eye will see when He returns.

this unequivocally makes Jesus Christ = YHWH


Actually, I think any thanks need to go to you!
This thread has been more refreshing than a long vacation...

Nothing like a spiritual recalibration!
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,855
1,222
113
#55
*bump* :)

Magenta already posted this one (thank you, Magenta!) but i wanted to say it again because it's beautiful. :)

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. (Col 2:9 Berean Study Bible)

the fullness... pléróma... the sum total, or super-abundance.
and yet the Spirit inspired the writer to add ALL. ALL the pléróma!
we could probably spend a week just taking apart this one verse. ♥

how kind of God to do these 'little things' for His people. :)
Christ is God, indeed.

 

DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
2,117
599
113
#56
Trinity…..1 john 5
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

So if the 3 are one then one is the three...that should clearly answer the thread.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#57

((i don't care to let the thread follow related topics within itself, tho i don't want to encourage it to be derailed.. ))

i have been told that grammatical plurality ((in noun form)) in Hebrew, and in some other languages, is sometimes used to signify importance and/or emphasis, not plurality in number.

in the Bible in particular, in Hebrew, the word "elohim" is a plural noun, which in every case that is referring to God, is used with a singular form of a verb -- so that the plurality of the noun is not signifying 'more than one elohim' but is grammatically indicating that THE ((only)) Elohim is the one being written about, the singularity of God being expressed by the singular case of the verbs used.
Thanks for the clarification. I dunno the language so I was just making a statement based on what others have said. Wiki (obviously not the greatest source) says it means something along the lines of "God of gods" hence the plurality of it. Seems to kind of be what you are saying.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#58
My Belief is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. the only begotten of God sent from God to save the world :) was always , will ever be is seated at Gods right Hand, is the One mediator between God and Man.

i dont think its wrong for anyone to call Him God, i believe Gods testimony that He gave of His Son many times over. and that without the belief that God sent His only Son into the World to save the world, there is no salvation.

the question should never be " is Jesus God" it should always be, is Jesus the Christ and Son of the Living God? <<<Because that is the truth that saves mankind, that God gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting Life.

you will not find the equal to you must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, ots never " you must believe that Jesus is God.

the message of the Son of God is the gospel.

romans 1:1-4 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

thats my belief. again, its not wrong for some to say He is God, because He is the Eternal Son of God. He is my Lord, His Father is the One true and Only God.

1 timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

son of man- son of God

Hi followjesus,

But think this through. What is one thing that makes Jesus as a man, set apart from all of mankind; without sin.

Is it not that He as God, emptied himself from the fullness of His
deity, taking on the from of a man. Immanuel even means, God with us.

Philippians 2:5-11
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It seems that you have difficulty calling Jesus God or one of the trinity. Why is that? Do you believe that Jesus isn't God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,034
13,245
113
#59
Actually, I think any thanks need to go to you!
This thread has been more refreshing than a long vacation...

Nothing like a spiritual recalibration!
thank my Lord, my God, who by His Spirit put this thread in my heart to start while on my way home yesterday!

:)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,034
13,245
113
#60

here's another; a connection maybe you had never made:

[HR][/HR]
. . . hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind), that they may fear you all the days that they live in the land that you gave to our fathers.
(1 Kings 8:39-40)

((from Solomon's dedicatory prayer over the temple))

only Yah knows the hearts of all people.

But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.(John 2:24-25)

Jesus knows the heart of all people.

Q.E.D.

!!