CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER
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I quite agree! 
Do you really believe this? Do you believe that there are verses that are the opposite of other verses? By that, I mean, do you think there are verses that contradict other verses?
If you do, then I see no reason to continue discussing. I believe the Bible is totally harmonious. I even strongly disagree with the scholars who talk about "tension" in the Bible. That is nonsense.
I have already told you, the heart. Do you know what the "heart" refers to?
The soul, where the intellect, emotions, personality, etc all exist.
Our faith comes from our intellect. Would you like Scripture for this?
2 Tim 3:15 - and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Do you really believe this? Do you believe that there are verses that are the opposite of other verses? By that, I mean, do you think there are verses that contradict other verses?
If you do, then I see no reason to continue discussing. I believe the Bible is totally harmonious. I even strongly disagree with the scholars who talk about "tension" in the Bible. That is nonsense.
I have already told you, the heart. Do you know what the "heart" refers to?
The soul, where the intellect, emotions, personality, etc all exist.
Our faith comes from our intellect. Would you like Scripture for this?
2 Tim 3:15 - and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
#1 = Nowhere did i ever suggest your comment = "Do you believe that there are verses that are the opposite of other verses?"
#2 = In fact, i said the "Scripture is Harmonious."
#3 = Romans 10:10 Since with the heart man believes unto salvation = How does the heart generate faith unto Salvation.
#4 = Find the answer from the LORD Jesus Himself in the Gospel.
#5 = the answer is also found in Romans 10:5-13
#6 = the answer is also completely Harmonious in Scripture beginning in Genesis thru to Revelation.
Acts 9:6 is compellingly the exact verse where Paul believes in Jesus.
Here's the breakdown:
"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest," - Acts 9:1 KJV
In Acts 9:1, Saul doesn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
When Jesus speaks to Saul through the Holy Spirit, Saul doesn't recognize Him. "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." - Acts 9:5 KJV
Paul's response is interesting. Paul acknowledges Jesus as Lord after it was revealed to whom he was talking to, and he submits to His will.
"And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." - Acts 9:6 KJV
Paul brings a deeper context to calling Jesus Lord in his letter to the Corinthians, 1 Cor 12:3
"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." - 1 Cor 12:3 KJV
Going back to your question, yes, God does change the heart so that mankind can believe.
Paul is just one of the more prominent examples. He would not have even started on the path to belief had it not been for the intervention by Jesus through the Holy Spirit. We see Saul become touched by the Holy spirit in Acts 9:6 and then become filled by it in Acts 9:17.
Consider John 12:40
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 KJV
Saul was made literally blind, and in the transformative process of being healed, his heart was changed and his blindness was removed. In no way, shape, or form did Saul believe in Christ on his own power. The correct "push" was provided to activate his inherent nature to become a vessel for God's will.
If you look closer at the word "salvation", the root comes from "salve". Salvation is about healing.
I don't see how you could possibly say that Saul on his own accord chose to believe. Why do you think Paul calls himself a prisoner in Christ, or talks about the "curse of Christ"? He's clearly not talking about the kind of belief that he could consciously break. He's also clearly not talking about a belief that he came to on his own accord. Paul's inherent nature just needed the right push in the right direction. God knows our hearts and what is need to effect change.
Here's the breakdown:
"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest," - Acts 9:1 KJV
In Acts 9:1, Saul doesn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
When Jesus speaks to Saul through the Holy Spirit, Saul doesn't recognize Him. "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." - Acts 9:5 KJV
Paul's response is interesting. Paul acknowledges Jesus as Lord after it was revealed to whom he was talking to, and he submits to His will.
"And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." - Acts 9:6 KJV
Paul brings a deeper context to calling Jesus Lord in his letter to the Corinthians, 1 Cor 12:3
"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." - 1 Cor 12:3 KJV
Going back to your question, yes, God does change the heart so that mankind can believe.
Paul is just one of the more prominent examples. He would not have even started on the path to belief had it not been for the intervention by Jesus through the Holy Spirit. We see Saul become touched by the Holy spirit in Acts 9:6 and then become filled by it in Acts 9:17.
Consider John 12:40
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 KJV
Saul was made literally blind, and in the transformative process of being healed, his heart was changed and his blindness was removed. In no way, shape, or form did Saul believe in Christ on his own power. The correct "push" was provided to activate his inherent nature to become a vessel for God's will.
If you look closer at the word "salvation", the root comes from "salve". Salvation is about healing.
I don't see how you could possibly say that Saul on his own accord chose to believe. Why do you think Paul calls himself a prisoner in Christ, or talks about the "curse of Christ"? He's clearly not talking about the kind of belief that he could consciously break. He's also clearly not talking about a belief that he came to on his own accord. Paul's inherent nature just needed the right push in the right direction. God knows our hearts and what is need to effect change.
FreeGrace2 said:
If I am, as you "admit", smarter than you, then if you are "smart enough" how come we aren't on the same page here?
Can you point out any post where I exhibited pride? My posting focuses on what the Bible says. When that steps on toes, I am accused of all kinds of things, like what you just did, pride, and anger, etc.
Everyone thinks they are right. Obviously. But when verses that SAY opposite of what posters claim, they just don't like it, so they throw accusations, insults, and whatever.
The old adage, "the truth hurts" is quite true.
If I am, as you "admit", smarter than you, then if you are "smart enough" how come we aren't on the same page here?
Can you point out any post where I exhibited pride? My posting focuses on what the Bible says. When that steps on toes, I am accused of all kinds of things, like what you just did, pride, and anger, etc.
Everyone thinks they are right. Obviously. But when verses that SAY opposite of what posters claim, they just don't like it, so they throw accusations, insults, and whatever.
The old adage, "the truth hurts" is quite true.
He addressed Jesus as "Lord", after Jesus told him who He was.
There is nothing in Acts 9 that supports your claim. Nor anywhere else in the Bible.
You believe what the Bible DOESN'T SAY. I use the Berean study method and believe what the Bible says.
None of this proves your claim.
This isn't the best translation from Isa 6:9,10.
The best translation comes from Paul himself in Acts 28.
25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
I highlighted where we see clearly that 'the people' weren't listening, they closed their own eyes and their heart had become calloused.
iow, these are the reasons people won't believe the gospel. By their own actions.
v.27 is very clear; people who WILL listen and open their eyes will understand with THEIR OWN hearts and TURN (repent) the result is that God "would heal them".
Paul didn't have a Calvinist bone in his body. He knew that people have the ability to listen, see and understand AND turn. And he knew the result would be that God would heal them.
Totally NON-calvinistic.
Are you not aware of what Paul wrote about blindness in 2 Cor 3.
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
v.16 refutes all notions of calvinism. When people "turn to the Lord", the veil of blindness is removed. But you don't believe Paul if you believe the theology of calvinism. What Paul wrote is the opposite of calvinism, which claims that God removes the veil AND THEN they turn to Him.
This is a problem of all calvinists. You think believing takes "power". Why? Where do you get your notions?
Consider John 4:50 - “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.”The man took Jesus at his word and departed.
The highlighted words is another way to express belief. It's a trust issue, and EVERYONE understands what trust is.
Does it take power to trust? Prove it if you do.
Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that? If you aren't convinced, then you won't believe.
People can even SEE clear evidence and won't believe. Why? Because their false doctrines convince them more than truth.
Because he was in prison when he wrote that.
What do you think he was referring to?
There are no "kinds of belief", like calvinist like to describe.
Yeah, there's that phony "power" notion of yours.
Paul wrote this: Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
The problem here is that you simply do not believe what Paul wrote. Paul himself SAID man believes with his own heart, and your statement is in direct CONTRADICTION with what Paul said. Are your eyes open enough to see your problem?
There is nothing in Acts 9 that supports your claim. Nor anywhere else in the Bible.
You believe what the Bible DOESN'T SAY. I use the Berean study method and believe what the Bible says.
None of this proves your claim.
This isn't the best translation from Isa 6:9,10.
The best translation comes from Paul himself in Acts 28.
25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
I highlighted where we see clearly that 'the people' weren't listening, they closed their own eyes and their heart had become calloused.
iow, these are the reasons people won't believe the gospel. By their own actions.
v.27 is very clear; people who WILL listen and open their eyes will understand with THEIR OWN hearts and TURN (repent) the result is that God "would heal them".
Paul didn't have a Calvinist bone in his body. He knew that people have the ability to listen, see and understand AND turn. And he knew the result would be that God would heal them.
Totally NON-calvinistic.
Are you not aware of what Paul wrote about blindness in 2 Cor 3.
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
v.16 refutes all notions of calvinism. When people "turn to the Lord", the veil of blindness is removed. But you don't believe Paul if you believe the theology of calvinism. What Paul wrote is the opposite of calvinism, which claims that God removes the veil AND THEN they turn to Him.
This is a problem of all calvinists. You think believing takes "power". Why? Where do you get your notions?
Consider John 4:50 - “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.”The man took Jesus at his word and departed.
The highlighted words is another way to express belief. It's a trust issue, and EVERYONE understands what trust is.
Does it take power to trust? Prove it if you do.
Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that? If you aren't convinced, then you won't believe.
People can even SEE clear evidence and won't believe. Why? Because their false doctrines convince them more than truth.
Because he was in prison when he wrote that.
What do you think he was referring to?
There are no "kinds of belief", like calvinist like to describe.
Yeah, there's that phony "power" notion of yours.
Paul wrote this: Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
The problem here is that you simply do not believe what Paul wrote. Paul himself SAID man believes with his own heart, and your statement is in direct CONTRADICTION with what Paul said. Are your eyes open enough to see your problem?
FreeGrace2 said:
Your comments suggested otherwise. It's always helpful to be clear.
It was my interpretation of what you posted. Sorry.
We all certainly need to be careful to be as clear as we can. Myself included.
Your comments suggested otherwise. It's always helpful to be clear.
It was my interpretation of what you posted. Sorry.
We all certainly need to be careful to be as clear as we can. Myself included.
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I think your biggest issue here is that you believe that God is incapable of convincing people.
Your concept of God is inconsistent with Christian scripture. But, your concept is completely consistent with the god of the Talmud, which makes sense because your Dispensationalist religion heavily borrows from Talmudic Judaism. The god of the Talmud is not omnipotent, not omniscient, and does not know the hearts of men. The God of Christianity is all of those things, and more.
This is part of the reason you will never accept Christian premises, because your religion is entirely different and tainted by antiChrist concepts.
You apparently claim to be the Calvinism expert here. No one here has claimed to be a Calvinist. No one claimed that free will doesn't exist. But the will of mere mortals cannot override the will of God. If God wants to save you, you will be saved. The clear point is that it is possible that God may decide to save someone by changing their heart. If you don't believe that, you don't believe God is omnipotent. If you stick to that position, it just adds more to the list of Christian scriptural concepts that Dispensationalists reject. The real question we are exploring is the full scope of the mechanics for salvation. Even if Paul was made to believe by the Holy Spirit healing his nature in God, you could still argue that this wouldn't necessarily be how it works in all cases. And from your Dispensationalist perspective, I suggest you shift to that position because it will be the stronger argument for you. And it actually fits well into your Dispensationalist doctrine that different rules apply to different people at the same time.
Were you raised as a Calvinist before you joined Dispensationalism? You seem oddly obsessed with Calvinism and I'm not sure anyone else here has enough knowledge about it to meaningful comment on it.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.
You shouldn't be looking to see what Isaiah says to understand Paul, you should be looking at what Paul says so that you can understand Isaiah. The NT isn't just some 1st century fallible bookclub blog by scripture enthusiasts, it is God speaking through different authors to create a proper understanding of what was meant in the OT.
This is the craziest thing I've ever heard of.
The idea that all types of belief are subject to personal choice is ridiculous and has no basis in reality. If you can choose all of your beliefs, that's a strange talent that I've never heard of.
I would talk about metacognition, but I don't think you are ready for that yet. I would talk about metaphysics and the concept of nature and the expression of nature, but I don't think you're ready for that either.
Is it your opinion that God took a gamble when He revealed Himself to Saul? Is it your opinion that Paul was being facetious when he called himself a prisoner in Christ?
Your concept of God is inconsistent with Christian scripture. But, your concept is completely consistent with the god of the Talmud, which makes sense because your Dispensationalist religion heavily borrows from Talmudic Judaism. The god of the Talmud is not omnipotent, not omniscient, and does not know the hearts of men. The God of Christianity is all of those things, and more.
This is part of the reason you will never accept Christian premises, because your religion is entirely different and tainted by antiChrist concepts.
You apparently claim to be the Calvinism expert here. No one here has claimed to be a Calvinist. No one claimed that free will doesn't exist. But the will of mere mortals cannot override the will of God. If God wants to save you, you will be saved. The clear point is that it is possible that God may decide to save someone by changing their heart. If you don't believe that, you don't believe God is omnipotent. If you stick to that position, it just adds more to the list of Christian scriptural concepts that Dispensationalists reject. The real question we are exploring is the full scope of the mechanics for salvation. Even if Paul was made to believe by the Holy Spirit healing his nature in God, you could still argue that this wouldn't necessarily be how it works in all cases. And from your Dispensationalist perspective, I suggest you shift to that position because it will be the stronger argument for you. And it actually fits well into your Dispensationalist doctrine that different rules apply to different people at the same time.
Were you raised as a Calvinist before you joined Dispensationalism? You seem oddly obsessed with Calvinism and I'm not sure anyone else here has enough knowledge about it to meaningful comment on it.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.
You shouldn't be looking to see what Isaiah says to understand Paul, you should be looking at what Paul says so that you can understand Isaiah. The NT isn't just some 1st century fallible bookclub blog by scripture enthusiasts, it is God speaking through different authors to create a proper understanding of what was meant in the OT.
This is the craziest thing I've ever heard of.
The idea that all types of belief are subject to personal choice is ridiculous and has no basis in reality. If you can choose all of your beliefs, that's a strange talent that I've never heard of.
I would talk about metacognition, but I don't think you are ready for that yet. I would talk about metaphysics and the concept of nature and the expression of nature, but I don't think you're ready for that either.
Is it your opinion that God took a gamble when He revealed Himself to Saul? Is it your opinion that Paul was being facetious when he called himself a prisoner in Christ?
FreeGrace2 said:
If you aren't convinced, then you won't believe.
What you really mean is that no one can believe the gospel unless God forces them. By changing their hearts without their permission.
That is the real basis of calvinism. In fact, since we are saved by GRACE, which means "not by works", God gives man the choice of whether to believe or not. So, those who don't believe have no excuse because God has revealed Himself and His power and attributes to everyone. Cornelius (Acts 10) is an example of an unbeliever who did recognize God as Creator and WAS thankful to Him.
So, according to Heb 11:6, God gave Cornelius more information on which to believe.
No, it is very inconsistent with calvinism, which you think is Christianity.
You can quit the extremely ignorant words "dispensationalist religion". There is no such thing. Dispensationalists are saved the SAME WAY Calvinists are. So get off your ridiculous name calling. iow, grow up.
As to dispensationalism, the only part of it that I am familiar with is how to interpret history. Calvinists see history from the perspective of covenants, where dispensationalists from the perspective of historical dispensations. None of that comprises a religion.
Well, there you go. I believe that God IS omniscient, He knows everything (1 John 3:20) and fully knows the hearts of everyone.
So STOP throwing the stupid and FALSE claims and name calling.
Yes, He is. But, unlike calvinism, I reject that God is a puppet master who has to pull strings in order to get some wooden headed puppets to believe.
Please quit making these stupid and wrong headed claims. What I fully accept is the Bible and Christian doctrines. What I don't accept are the false doctrines of calvinism.
I can't even have a normal conversation with you because of all your false calvinist talking points.
Another false claim. Where have I ever made such a stupid claim? I KNOW that you don't have the evidence.
That isn't even necessary. All your talking points are from calvinism, even if you didn't know that. All your training from pastors and the books you've read have tainted your view.
Neither have I. So get off your high horse. What you can't prove is that God regenerates BEFORE He saves.
Absolutely!! And this verse tells us who He wants (is pleased) to save:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
I highlighted the words that prove that God's plan is to save believers. There are no verses that show that God's plan is to unconditionally save anyone. Throughout the Bible, the single condition for being saved is to believe on the Lord Jesus. So calvinism is wrong from the start.
No one is ever saved by their heart being changed. That is just another false claim by calvinism. But you are so stuck on that idea, there is no way we can have any kind of meaningful discussion. And it ISN'T POSSIBLE that God would do that. He has already shown us in His Word HOW a person will be saved; through faith in His Son.
It seems what you really mean by "omnipotent" is that God forces those He chooses to do what He wants them to do. I REJECT that.
Of course can force people. But what verse teaches that He forces anyone to believe? You don't have any. You're probably tired of hearing that over and over. But it's true.
I study the Bible by the Berean method, per Acts 17:11. When you (calvinism) SAYS something, I search the Scriptures daily and diligently to see if what you (calvinism) says is true. And it isn't true.
It is calvinism that can't prove their TULIP. What verse says that unregenerate man CANNOT believe the gospel? None.
What verse says that salvation is unconditional? None. What verse says that Christ died ONLY for some? None. What verse says that God's grace is irresistible? None. And, if you take the P as perseverance, what verse says that all believers will persevere? None.
T is refuted by Titus 2:11 which says that the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.
U is refuted by the many verses that plainly say that men are elected to service.
L is refuted by the many verses that plainly say that Christ died for everyone.
I is refuted by Acts 7:51 which says that men resist the Holy Spirit.
P is refuted by Luke 8:13 and the many verses that show believers who failed to persevere, like King Saul, as just one example.
If you believe that the P stands for eternal security, that is correct. John 10:28 couldn't be more clear; those given the gift of eternal life shall never perish. John 5:24 says those who believe possess eternal life, and there are many verses that also teach that eternal life is possessed on the basis of believing on the Son of God.
Second half to follow.
If you aren't convinced, then you won't believe.
What you really mean is that no one can believe the gospel unless God forces them. By changing their hearts without their permission.
That is the real basis of calvinism. In fact, since we are saved by GRACE, which means "not by works", God gives man the choice of whether to believe or not. So, those who don't believe have no excuse because God has revealed Himself and His power and attributes to everyone. Cornelius (Acts 10) is an example of an unbeliever who did recognize God as Creator and WAS thankful to Him.
So, according to Heb 11:6, God gave Cornelius more information on which to believe.
No, it is very inconsistent with calvinism, which you think is Christianity.
You can quit the extremely ignorant words "dispensationalist religion". There is no such thing. Dispensationalists are saved the SAME WAY Calvinists are. So get off your ridiculous name calling. iow, grow up.
As to dispensationalism, the only part of it that I am familiar with is how to interpret history. Calvinists see history from the perspective of covenants, where dispensationalists from the perspective of historical dispensations. None of that comprises a religion.
Well, there you go. I believe that God IS omniscient, He knows everything (1 John 3:20) and fully knows the hearts of everyone.
So STOP throwing the stupid and FALSE claims and name calling.
Yes, He is. But, unlike calvinism, I reject that God is a puppet master who has to pull strings in order to get some wooden headed puppets to believe.
Please quit making these stupid and wrong headed claims. What I fully accept is the Bible and Christian doctrines. What I don't accept are the false doctrines of calvinism.
I can't even have a normal conversation with you because of all your false calvinist talking points.
Another false claim. Where have I ever made such a stupid claim? I KNOW that you don't have the evidence.
That isn't even necessary. All your talking points are from calvinism, even if you didn't know that. All your training from pastors and the books you've read have tainted your view.
Neither have I. So get off your high horse. What you can't prove is that God regenerates BEFORE He saves.
Absolutely!! And this verse tells us who He wants (is pleased) to save:
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
I highlighted the words that prove that God's plan is to save believers. There are no verses that show that God's plan is to unconditionally save anyone. Throughout the Bible, the single condition for being saved is to believe on the Lord Jesus. So calvinism is wrong from the start.
No one is ever saved by their heart being changed. That is just another false claim by calvinism. But you are so stuck on that idea, there is no way we can have any kind of meaningful discussion. And it ISN'T POSSIBLE that God would do that. He has already shown us in His Word HOW a person will be saved; through faith in His Son.
It seems what you really mean by "omnipotent" is that God forces those He chooses to do what He wants them to do. I REJECT that.
Of course can force people. But what verse teaches that He forces anyone to believe? You don't have any. You're probably tired of hearing that over and over. But it's true.
I study the Bible by the Berean method, per Acts 17:11. When you (calvinism) SAYS something, I search the Scriptures daily and diligently to see if what you (calvinism) says is true. And it isn't true.
It is calvinism that can't prove their TULIP. What verse says that unregenerate man CANNOT believe the gospel? None.
What verse says that salvation is unconditional? None. What verse says that Christ died ONLY for some? None. What verse says that God's grace is irresistible? None. And, if you take the P as perseverance, what verse says that all believers will persevere? None.
T is refuted by Titus 2:11 which says that the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.
U is refuted by the many verses that plainly say that men are elected to service.
L is refuted by the many verses that plainly say that Christ died for everyone.
I is refuted by Acts 7:51 which says that men resist the Holy Spirit.
P is refuted by Luke 8:13 and the many verses that show believers who failed to persevere, like King Saul, as just one example.
If you believe that the P stands for eternal security, that is correct. John 10:28 couldn't be more clear; those given the gift of eternal life shall never perish. John 5:24 says those who believe possess eternal life, and there are many verses that also teach that eternal life is possessed on the basis of believing on the Son of God.
Second half to follow.
Here is the second half response to Jocund's post.
Jocund said:
I wouldn't argue that for ANY case. The means of salvation are very clear: Paul's answer to the jailer: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
And from your Dispensationalist perspective, I suggest you shift to that position because it will be the stronger argument for you. [/QUOTE]
I don't have a dispensationalist perspective. I have told you that my study method for the Bible is what the Bereans did; see if what others SAYS is also SAID in the Bible.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.
Jocund said:
I wouldn't argue that for ANY case. The means of salvation are very clear: Paul's answer to the jailer: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
And from your Dispensationalist perspective, I suggest you shift to that position because it will be the stronger argument for you. [/QUOTE]
I don't have a dispensationalist perspective. I have told you that my study method for the Bible is what the Bereans did; see if what others SAYS is also SAID in the Bible.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.
I don't have a dispensationalist perspective. I have told you that my study method for the Bible is what the Bereans did; see if what others SAYS is also SAID in the Bible.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.[/QUOTE]
You ask me for an example of you being prideful. Go back over this post and consecrate on your comments to Jocund.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.[/QUOTE]
You ask me for an example of you being prideful. Go back over this post and consecrate on your comments to Jocund.
"this post"?? This post is from YOU. btw, most of your post showed up as though YOU posted them, when they were my post comments.
Do you know how to format posts? It seems you do not. It's hard to comment on posts when I have to wade through and figure out what I posted and then what you posted.
Please figure out how to format. Or get help.
So your "advice" is bogus. Just look at post 413 and see if you agree with what looks like YOUR comments.
Your posts are a mess. Please fix your mess.
And, then, take a break from cleaning up or learning how to fix your posts, and find comments from me that you interpret as "prideful".
I have no idea what pushes your buttons, but my style is simply straightforward.
I support my claims with Scripture that SAYS what I say. Unlike yourself.
The old adage, "truth hurts" realy does, as you are finding out.
When you are faced with truthful posts, you "see" them as "prideful". Common reaction.
Do you know how to format posts? It seems you do not. It's hard to comment on posts when I have to wade through and figure out what I posted and then what you posted.
Please figure out how to format. Or get help.
So your "advice" is bogus. Just look at post 413 and see if you agree with what looks like YOUR comments.
Your posts are a mess. Please fix your mess.
And, then, take a break from cleaning up or learning how to fix your posts, and find comments from me that you interpret as "prideful".
I have no idea what pushes your buttons, but my style is simply straightforward.
I support my claims with Scripture that SAYS what I say. Unlike yourself.
The old adage, "truth hurts" realy does, as you are finding out.
When you are faced with truthful posts, you "see" them as "prideful". Common reaction.
I don't have a dispensationalist perspective. I have told you that my study method for the Bible is what the Bereans did; see if what others SAYS is also SAID in the Bible.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.[/QUOTE]
I do not know anyone that does not have somewhat of a problem with pride, myself included. Anyone that responds to another's post in such a degrading manner as yourself, by running them down while building yourself up is displaying pride. You know how to dish it out, but you can't take it, when it comes back to you.
Your stupid comments about dispensationalism are tiring. It's not a group to join. Maybe you are just very ignorant about that
Second, this is what I believed as I grew up in a Christian home: Jesus Christ died for everyone, eternal life is a free gift for those who believe in Jesus Christ for it, and those who are saved have eternal security.
Actually, you don't even know that your talking points all come from calvinism.
Since I've been on various forums/chats for over 20 years, I've discussed the Bible with LOADS of calvinists and Arminians. So I have a real good idea of what calvinists believe. Plus, I have read books about Calvinism. What else do I need?
The key point, as I showed above, is that TULIP cannot be supported by the Bible.
The term itself can mean many things, but the notion of trying to interpret the NT through the OT is contrary to Christian scripture.[/QUOTE]
I don't do that. I use the Berean study method, which the Bible approves of.
Where do you think I did that? iow, what evidence do you have for your claim?
Exactly! Just what the Bereans did. Maybe you've never read Acts 17:11, so here it is: Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
This is the sole reason I ask every poster for verses that support what they SAY.
I said:
"Everyone chooses to believe what convinces them. Don't you know that?"
I'm not surprised. So you really don't have any idea what it means to "believe" then. Obviously.
OK, let's just test this theory of yours. Consider ANY of your personal beliefs, whether political, religious, etc.
Now, explain that NONE of your personal beliefs were chosen by you. I can't wait to see your answer.
Well, since you are still squinting through those rose tinted and calvinist glasses, of course you can't understand this.
Since you don't believe that people's beliefs are their choice, just who is choosing all their beliefs.
If this isn't an excellent example of calvlinism's puppetry theology, I don't know what is. Thank you for that.
Seems you think these things are related to belief systems then. Why?
That would be a very stupid idea. God is omniscient, per 1 John 3:20. He never takes gambles. He doesn't have any plan B either.
I explained that. Why don't you pay attention? Paul was IN prison when he wrote that.
Why wouldn't he have written that?
You are giving me a very strong sense that you really don't know your Bible at all.[/QUOTE]
I do not know anyone that does not have somewhat of a problem with pride, myself included. Anyone that responds to another's post in such a degrading manner as yourself, by running them down while building yourself up is displaying pride. You know how to dish it out, but you can't take it, when it comes back to you.
Do you ever look over your posts, once you post them? The majority of your post (415) looks like comments from YOU when they are MY comments. You need to figure out how to fix your formatting.
I have asked you for evidence for your claims, which I claim are FALSE. So do you have evidence or not?
Your failure to provide any examples says everything about your "claims".
I have asked you for evidence for your claims, which I claim are FALSE. So do you have evidence or not?
Your failure to provide any examples says everything about your "claims".
Why is it so hard to understand that there is a difference between world and earth in the bible. We have one world it is the 3rd planet from our sun.
Wisdom was the first thing God created she has been with God from the very beginning of time.
Proverbs 8:19-29 copied from BibleHub.com (you should read the whole chapter.)
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Before there was anything else there was wisdom and without the wisdom of God you will never understand the deeper things of God that will give you the strong foundation to stand until the end. Especially in these end times The time of the generation of the Fig Tree
Wisdom was the first thing God created she has been with God from the very beginning of time.
Proverbs 8:19-29 copied from BibleHub.com (you should read the whole chapter.)
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Before there was anything else there was wisdom and without the wisdom of God you will never understand the deeper things of God that will give you the strong foundation to stand until the end. Especially in these end times The time of the generation of the Fig Tree
Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
This would be the same whirlwind (vehicle) that God used to visit Ezekiel in chapter 1.
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
In verse 1 God answered Job. How did He answer him; With a question. Why? Job 36 verses 3&4 Elihu said 3.“I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker. 4.For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.” He was making himself out to be a spokesmen for God saying I have the real truth of God so listen up to me. He was nothing but a bag full of hot air; He was like a lot of pastors today as God was giving a warning to Job that same warning is for us today. Be on the lookout for the blowhards that say I have the word of God. Make sure they are not an Elihu or like the other two “friends” but really do come with the truth. WHICH GOD IS GOING TO GIVE US.
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job stand up put your big boy pants on and we are going to have a talk.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
I am making an assumption that at least Elihu is there with Job, the other two may or may not. God is ask them and us; Where where you when I laid the the foundations of this earth age. God is letting Elihu that everything he said came from his own mind and heart not Gods. It is also a warning to Job and us to beware we get our teaching
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Who has laid out the universes who has placed the planets in there orbits, who has placed the stars and the constellations
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
How is it that the planets stay in orbit but there is nothing holding them there; Who laid the corner stone of the universe? God is letting them and us know that our knowledge, our ability to figure things is nothing compared to Him.
This next verse is very important.
Verse 7. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Remember God is asking the question here. When was it that the morning stars and the sons of God (including Satan.) shouted for Joy. That would have to be before this world age. Satan is not singing with God at this time. He was not singing with God after the flood that destroyed the heavens and the earth of verse 1 of the book of Genesis. There must have been a lot going on during the time between verse 1&2 of Genesis chapter 1. For some reason Christians today just turn a blind eye and ear to this part of God's word and say the earth is only 6,000 years old. This earth age is only about 6,000 years old.
Ephesians 1:3-5 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What caused this to happen?
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
This would be the same whirlwind (vehicle) that God used to visit Ezekiel in chapter 1.
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
In verse 1 God answered Job. How did He answer him; With a question. Why? Job 36 verses 3&4 Elihu said 3.“I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker. 4.For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.” He was making himself out to be a spokesmen for God saying I have the real truth of God so listen up to me. He was nothing but a bag full of hot air; He was like a lot of pastors today as God was giving a warning to Job that same warning is for us today. Be on the lookout for the blowhards that say I have the word of God. Make sure they are not an Elihu or like the other two “friends” but really do come with the truth. WHICH GOD IS GOING TO GIVE US.
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job stand up put your big boy pants on and we are going to have a talk.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
I am making an assumption that at least Elihu is there with Job, the other two may or may not. God is ask them and us; Where where you when I laid the the foundations of this earth age. God is letting Elihu that everything he said came from his own mind and heart not Gods. It is also a warning to Job and us to beware we get our teaching
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Who has laid out the universes who has placed the planets in there orbits, who has placed the stars and the constellations
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
How is it that the planets stay in orbit but there is nothing holding them there; Who laid the corner stone of the universe? God is letting them and us know that our knowledge, our ability to figure things is nothing compared to Him.
This next verse is very important.
Verse 7. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Remember God is asking the question here. When was it that the morning stars and the sons of God (including Satan.) shouted for Joy. That would have to be before this world age. Satan is not singing with God at this time. He was not singing with God after the flood that destroyed the heavens and the earth of verse 1 of the book of Genesis. There must have been a lot going on during the time between verse 1&2 of Genesis chapter 1. For some reason Christians today just turn a blind eye and ear to this part of God's word and say the earth is only 6,000 years old. This earth age is only about 6,000 years old.
Ephesians 1:3-5 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What caused this to happen?
Job
Chapter 40
"God's second address."
Job 40:1"Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said,"
Job 40:2"Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him?" he that reproveth God, let him answer it."
There were many there by Job, contending with God and blaming God for everything that went wrong. They blamed God for everything that happened, good or bad. However we did not hear the name of Satan fall from their lips.
Job 40:3Then Job answered the Lord, and said,"
Job 40:4"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer Thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth."
Job is finally realizing that he has opened his mouth to much already, He is saying here, I am going to keep my mouth shut.
Job 40:5"Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice: but I will proceed no further."
Job as one of God's elect is starting to see the sons of God all the way back on the day that the foundations were laid for this earth age. He is starting to understand that God had a plan that goes back far before this earth was formed, for it was laid out in the heavens back in the first earth age. Job is beginning to wake up to the fact that Satan was around all the time, and messing up his life. How would you feel if you had gone through all that Job went through, then come to realize the you had overlooked the works of Satan all the time? Job is finally starting to realize who his enemy is, and that he was here all the time. It is always easier to blame God rather than Satan for your faultsLets Jump down to verse 15
Job 40:15"Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox."
God is saying that he made the"behemoth"at that same time that he made Job's soul. There is a great argument among scholars as just what these"behemoth"are. They argue between the hippopotamus or an elephant.
Job 40:16"Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly."
God is saying that when you want to feel strong, you look over here at the behemoth, and take a close look at it's strength.
Job 40:17 "He moveth his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his stones are wrapped together."
Are we talking about an elephant or a hippopotamus? Of course not, for neither of these animals have tails the size of cedars. We are talking about Dinosaurs, for the first earth age. For that is when the soul of Job was created. These animals did not back away from even a cedar tree, for they have the strength to move them.
Job 40:20 "Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play,"
God is saying that, I provide for those beasts also Job, just like I provide for you.
Job 40:21"He lieth under the shady tree, in the covert of the reed, and fens,"
God provides those shady trees that they can eat from and give them shade from the hot sun.
Job 40:22 "The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about."
Job 40:23 "Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."
Does this sound like anything we have on earth today? No but we find them in history back before the the end of the first earth age which ended about 6,000 years ago
“kataluó: to destroy, overthrow
Original Word: καταλύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataluó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-al-oo'-o)
Definition: to destroy, overthrow
Usage: (lit: I loosen thoroughly), (a) trans: I break up, overthrow, destroy, both lit. and met., (b) I unyoke, unharness a carriage horse or pack animal; hence: I put up, lodge, find a lodging.