Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

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Jason0047

Jason0047

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#701
Jul 22, 2014
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#701
Also, who were the tests for? Did God the Father need to test the Son of God to see if He would pass or fail? He is a part of the Godhead. Jesus is one with the Father. How could He fail?

The tests Jesus went thru was for our benefit and not for God's benefit.

Jesus came to save US.

Side Note:

Also, read John 13:19 and John 13:33, John 14:28-29. Jesus said things that were going to come to pass so that his disciples might believe in Him. In other words, folks may not know this or not, but one of the tests that a true prophet was of God or not was to see if their predictions would come true. If their predictions did not come true, then they were a false prophet who was not of God. So the idea that Jesus could have sinned or failed is to say that he is not a true prophet of God.
 
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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#702
#702
Jason0047 said:
No, Jesus was not controlled by sin because He was without sin and did not know sin.

Hebrews 4:15 says "We have... an high priest... WITHOUT sin."

2 Corinthians 5:21 says, "He... who KNEW NO SIN."

1 Peter 2:22 says, "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

Hebrews 7:26 says, "an high priest.... who is HOLY, harmless, UNDEFILED, and SEPARATE from sinners.

1 John 3:5 says, "And IN HiM IS NO SIN."
Click to expand...

Do you even read what people write before you post ?

I said Jesus was never controlled by sin, we were and have been controlled by sin.
Plus I would add that when you are trying to prove a point, please you the whole scripture instead of part like you did with 2 Corinthians 5:21.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#703
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#703
Jason0047 said:
Adam was created as a living soul.
Jesus was the Lord from Heaven.

Adam was good but Adam was not perfect and holy because He sinned and was just a man with the free will to do evil.
Jesus was good but Jesus was perfect and holy because Jesus is God and does not have the capacity to sin.

The Scriptures say God cannot be tempted by evil.

If you believe Jesus is God, then you must conclude that Jesus cannot be tempted by evil.

It's pretty simple.
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Adam was formed, made and created. These words do not carry the same meaning - he was formed from the dust of the ground - he was made a living soul and was created in the image of God, i.e. spirit. He was perfect and holy in the beginning. When he sinned - "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" - he died spiritually - he lost that vital connection with God - NOW he had a sin nature - and that sin nature is passed through the male - the male normally carries the "seed" but Jesus Christ was born of the "seed of the woman", impregnanted by the Spirit of God, i.e. Holy Spirit [from heaven] - that is how he came from a pure blood line and escaped being born with a sinful nature. So he was just like Adam - where Adam failed Jesus Christ didn't . . . .

I believe that while here on earth Jesus was a man. I believe that he was tempted in all things so that he knows and has a feeling of our weaknesses and that is how he is able to succor them that are tempted.

Or else these verses are lies.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted. Hebrews 2:17,18

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

We can't have scripture negating scripture . . . . scripture has to flow together and if we have contradictions or discrepancies, we need to go back and see what is lacking in our understanding.

 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#704
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#704
Jason0047 said:
If you believe that, then "Luck or Chance" is one's God versus Jesus being God (Who is Holy and perfect and incapable of sin because He is God). For the moment one says, "Jesus could have potentially done evil or failed" involves the roll of a dice. If there was no chance whatsoever Jesus could have sinned or failed, then there is no "Chance" involved.
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How is chance involved? He was tempted . . . . he did not sin . . . therefore why even discuss "IF" he had failed - HE DIDN'T.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#705
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#705
kennethcadwell said:
Do you even read what people write before you post ?

I said Jesus was never controlled by sin, we were and have been controlled by sin.
Plus I would add that when you are trying to prove a point, please you the whole scripture instead of part like you did with 2 Corinthians 5:21.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
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Jesus (Who is the spotless Lamb and who is sinless) took on our sins in the cup witin the Garden Gethsemane. He later was beaten and whipped. Isaiah says, he was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed. Christ was then crucified and the Father laid all Judgment of sin upon Him and He died for all of mankind's sins so as to offer man the free gift of salvation. Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights; And then Christ conquered sin and death with His resurrection. Jesus then ascended to the Father (After telling Mary not to touch Him), and entered the Holy Temple up in Heaven by his blood so as to be our mediator and or Heavenly High Priest between God the Father and man.


Side Note:

A parallel of Jesus taking on our sin in the Garden can be seen in the story of Joseph. Judah took on Benjamin's guilt of the cup within his bag and was willing to go to prison (i.e. take punishment) in Benjamin's place for a sin that Benjamin did not do (See Genesis 44).
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#706
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#706
peacefulbeliever said:
How is chance involved? He was tempted . . . . he did not sin . . . therefore why even discuss "IF" he had failed - HE DIDN'T.
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That is what I would like to know. There is no "IF" involved with God. He is not capable of doing evil and His will and purposes will come to pass.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#707
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#707
peacefulbeliever said:
Adam was formed, made and created. These words do not carry the same meaning - he was formed from the dust of the ground - he was made a living soul and was created in the image of God, i.e. spirit. He was perfect and holy in the beginning. When he sinned - "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" - he died spiritually - he lost that vital connection with God - NOW he had a sin nature - and that sin nature is passed through the male - the male normally carries the "seed" but Jesus Christ was born of the "seed of the woman", impregnanted by the Spirit of God, i.e. Holy Spirit [from heaven] - that is how he came from a pure blood line and escaped being born with a sinful nature. So he was just like Adam - where Adam failed Jesus Christ didn't . . . .

I believe that while here on earth Jesus was a man. I believe that he was tempted in all things so that he knows and has a feeling of our weaknesses and that is how he is able to succor them that are tempted.

Or else these verses are lies.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted. Hebrews 2:17,18

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

We can't have scripture negating scripture . . . . scripture has to flow together and if we have contradictions or discrepancies, we need to go back and see what is lacking in our understanding.
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I can comfort someone who struggles with swearing because I know what it is like to be grieved by the sin of those who swear around me all the time (Taking the Lord's name in vain) which I find to be vexing to my spirit. The person in whom I am comforting who struggles with swearing can relate to me because they find the sin of swearing vexing to their spirit, too. I can be touched by the feeling of this particular infirmity (they are having) because this type of sin also grieves me. So when they do commit the sin of swearing again, they have God's mercy and grace to confess that sin to in order to be cleansed of all unrighteousness. They are also comforted knowing that a fellow brother (like myself) can relate to them in finding this particular sin disgusting (So as to stop).
 
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Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Banned
#708
Sep 30, 2014
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#708
Jason0047 said:
That is a very dangerous statement to make to people without clarifying in more detail in what you mean. If I say I learned right from wrong, that means I went thru some kind of trial and error life process so as to learn good and evil. Meaning, I made the mistake of sinning and realized how wrong it was for me to learn in not doing that sin again for me to know the difference between good and evil (Thereby teaching me to refuse other kinds of evil that I have not experienced). Now, if Jesus learned this trial and error process by thinking about doing evil but not acting upon it, it would be no different then actuallly doing evil, as well. The Bible describes bad thoughts as just as evil as the action of sin. For 1 John 3:15 says whosever hates is brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life. Jesus said, "that whosever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). One of the reasons the world was destroyed was because of thiis statement in Scripture, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5). This is then followed up by God saying, "I will destroy man...". That is why everyone here is wrong for making such a statement about Isaiah 7:15 and not clarifying in detail in what they mean. For when I learned from good and evil, I did not fully realize it until I did wrong and was corrected for that bad (i.e. to get one's hand caught in the cookie jar). In other words, we humans learn more from a mistake, then we do from just reading it in a book. We understand the gravity of right and wrong by our own rights and wrongs. So no. Jesus did not go thru a trial and error process of right and wrong like we do. As I said, He merely just gained the knowledge of right and wrong by studying God's Law within the Holy Scriptures. For how else would He learn about right and wrong? By trial and error? If that were so, then He would have sinned and or had bad thoughts which would have been a stain on his Holy character in connection with the Father.

For what do you mean? Please clarify if Jesus was not studying God's Word, how did He learn about right and wrong? Did He observe other people's rights and wrong? I can see that. But Jesus did not experience his own rights and wrongs which is implied by the statement everyone here made. Hebrews 7:26 says Jesus is Holy, separate from sinners, and undefiled. Someone who is Holy does not have evil thoughts or even a potential to sin. For something that is Holy means it is perfect.
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does a two year old sin ? No, they don't know what sin is... Completely innocent ... When Jesus was made of age " to know ", He did not consciously or unconsciously sin... Simple... He still had to learn Jason
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#709
Jul 22, 2014
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#709
Brainfreeze said:
does a two year old sin ? No, they don't know what sin is... Completely innocent ... When Jesus was made of age " to know ", He did not consciously or unconsciously sin... Simple... He still had to learn Jason
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I believe Jesus grew in knowledge and gained the knowledge of good and evil from reading God's Word. Jesus' Omniscience (i.e. His divine attribute of having all knowledge) was suppresed in His incarnation. He learned about good and evil from reading God's Word and He did not learn about good and evil from life experiences in thinking the wrong thing and or in doing the wrong thing (Like we had learned). For we learned about right and wrong from realizing that there are punishments or consequences for certain sins that we committed. Jesus had no sin and is incapable of sin or evil thought to consider sin. It is against His nature because He is Holy; And I believe the Holy Spirit would have protected the Holy Son of God (While His Omniscience was suppressed more) as a child. Also, Jesus' very nature is Holy and not sinful.

For Jesus is our spotless Passover Lamb.

We are made clean by something that is clean and not by something that is tainted or defiled.

Jesus was Holy 100% of His life because He is God.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#710
Jul 22, 2014
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#710
God is Holy and incapable of sinning.

Jeus is God.

This means Jeus is Holy and incapable of sinning.

If you don't believe that, then you don't believe Jesus is truly God like God the Father is God.
 
Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Banned
#711
Sep 30, 2014
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#711
Jason0047 said:
I believe Jesus grew in knowledge and gained the knowledge of good and evil from reading God's Word. Jesus' Omniscience (i.e. His divine attribute of having all knowledge) was suppresed in His incarnation. He learned about good and evil from reading God's Word and He did not learn about good and evil from life experiences in thinking the wrong thing and or in doing the wrong thing (Like we had learned). For we learned about right and wrong from realizing that there are punishments or consequences for certain sins that we committed. Jesus had no sin and is incapable of sin or evil thought to consider sin. It is against His nature because He is Holy; And I believe the Holy Spirit would have protected the Holy Son of God (While His Omniscience was suppressed more) as a child.

For Jesus is our spotless Passover Lamb.

We are made clean by something that is clean and not by something that is tainted or defiled.

Jesus was Holy 100% of His life because He is God.
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So He never fell and got a bo bo playing with His brothers ? He learned what good and evil is from Gods word but not in life experiences walking the town with His mother ? He learned just like us, but made all the right choices. At least your saying Jesus did something humans do... HE LEARNED
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#712
Jul 22, 2014
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#712
Brainfreeze said:
So He never fell and got a bo bo playing with His brothers ?
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What does physical pain (that is a part of the body) have to do with one's internal being and behavior?

He learned what good and evil is from Gods word but not in life experiences walking the town with His mother ? He learned just like us, but made all the right choices. At least your saying Jesus did something humans do... HE LEARNED
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Like I said, I am not in disagreement that Jesus learned and or gained knowledge. In the Incarnation (i.e. When the Word was made flesh), Christ's Omniscience was suppressed. Granted, His Omniscience was not eliminated because that would change who God is. For if God did not have the power of Omniscience (i.e. to know all things), then He would not be God. So Jesus still had the ability or power of Omniscience, but that ability was merely suppressed (during the process of the Incarnation).

As for Christ learning right from wrong like us: Well, He did not learn "right from wrong" like we do. We learn right from wrong by experiencing the consequences of us doing bad and then realizing that we should have done good instead (i.e. the Law is a school master to bring us unto Christ). Jesus never experienced that. As you said He made all the right choices. Not because He got lucky, or because He had a good mother who was helpful, but because He is naturally Holy as God and He studied the Word with the Spirit of knowledge upon Him. He was taught and given knowledge of good and evil directly by God and yet He was God (Who was incapable of any kind of sin). For the Scriptures essentially say there is no sin in Him and that He knew no sin. The Scriptures say He is Holy, undefiled, and SEPARATE from sinners (Hebrews 7:26). The Scriptures essentially say that bad thoughts are wrong and evil. Jesus never had any bad thoughts in considering in doing evil. He could not even consider in doing evil because He is God. But if you don't believe Jesus is God then He could have potentially sinned. Why? Because in order to truly be God, you cannot potentially sin because you are Holy (Which means to be perfect). Jesus is perfect and incapable of evil. I shouldn't have to argue about this fact. Jesus is good. Not bad in any way. Ever. Not under any circumstances. Put Jesus under any test, and He is still God.
 
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Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Banned
#713
Sep 30, 2014
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#713
Jason0047 said:
What does physical pain (that is a part of the body) have to do with one's internal being and behavior?
it shows he suppressed His " Omniscience " to be like us... Human


Like I said, I am not in disagreement that Jesus learned and or gained knowledge. In the Incarnation (i.e. When the Word was made flesh), Christ's Omniscience was suppressed. Granted, His Omniscience was not eliminated because that would change who God is. For if God did not have the power of Omniscience (i.e. to know all things), then He would not be God. So Jesus still had the ability or power of Omniscience, but that ability was merely suppressed (during the process of the Incarnation).

ok, so you agree Jesus had to learn because He came through the flesh...


As for Christ learning right from wrong like us: Well, He did not learn "right from wrong" like we do. We learn right from wrong by experiencing the consequences of us doing bad and then realizing that we should have done good instead (i.e. the Law is a school master to bring us unto Christ). Jesus never experienced that. As you said He made all the right choices. Not because He got lucky, or because He had a good mother who was helpful, but because He is naturally Holy as God and He studied the Word with the Spirit of knowledge upon Him. He was taught and given knowledge of good and evil directly by God and yet He was God (Who was incapable of any kind of sin). For the Scriptures essentially say there is no sin in Him and that He knew no sin. The Scriptures say He is Holy, undefiled, and SEPARATE from sinners (Hebrews 7:26). The Scriptures essentially say that bad thoughts are wrong and evil. Jesus never had any bad thoughts in considering in doing evil. He could not even consider in doing evil because He is God. But if you don't believe Jesus is God then He could have potentially sinned. Why? Because in order to truly be God, you cannot potentially sin because you are Holy (Which means to be perfect. Jesus is perfect and incapable of evil. I shouldn't have to argue about this fact. Jesus is good. Not bad in any way. Ever. Not under any circumstances. Put Jesus under any test, and He is still God




I never said He considered it.. Why put words in my mouth ? I said He had to learn what sin was, because Jesus came through the flesh as a child. He had all the power and wanted for nothing, He knew His purpose. External and internal is your perception. The questions were asked, it was not in His will to do so. He knows what evil is, He wanted no part of it... Ever




.
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Answers are in bold..
 
Reborn

Reborn

Senior Member
#714
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
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63
#714
Sooooo are you saying Jesus was or wasn't tempted Jason, you really haven't responded/given us your thoughts much on this thread?? ;)
Just a little joke, giving you a chance to breathe my man. ( I said I would in PM)
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#715
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#715
Reborn said:
Sooooo are you saying Jesus was or wasn't tempted Jason, you really haven't responded/given us your thoughts much on this thread?? ;)
Just a little joke, giving you a chance to breathe my man. ( I said I would in PM)
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Thanks my friend.

;)
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#716
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#716
Brainfreeze said:
it shows he suppressed His " Omniscience " to be like us... Human
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I believe in the Incarnation that Christ's Omniscience was suppressed (So as to be like us), too. But this involved the knowledge of the eternal Spirit being suppressed with no human spirit involved; His eternal divine Spirit was suppressed of Omniscience so as to resemble a human mind, will, and emotions (so as to be like a man). For the Spirit in the body was Christ's divine eternal soul with no other soul attached. The body was just a shell or a temple. Which leads me to my next point. For I also believe Jesus took on flesh (whereby he could feel pain), too. But this was another aspect of the Incarnation (i.e. the Physical aspect of the Incarnation). You may not agree exactly, but this is what I believe Scripture teaches.

Side Note: Well, I am still searching for Scripture that specifically states that Christ's Omniscience was suppressed during the Incarnation, but in the meantime, the two pieces of Scripture that allude to that event is with Adam and Samson. In Romans 5:14 NLT says Adam is a symbol or representation of Christ and then check out #7 on the 1st list below.

So what ways are Adam and Jesus alike?

#1 Adam and Jesus are both Sons of God (Who directly created physically in some way by God).
#2. Adam and Jesus both are representatiives of a certain people group.
#3. Adam and Jesus both are supposed to have dominion over the Earth.
#4. Adam and Jesus both have brides (Jesus' bride is the Church).
#5. Both Adam and Jesus' destiny for man involved a tree (The cross is referred to as a Tree in the NT).
#6. Adam and Jesus both take on sin in a garden
(Jesus took on our sins within the cup at Gethsemane).
#7. Both Adam and Jesus are limited in knowledge for a certain amount of time.

And what ways are Adam and Jesus a contrast to one another?

#1. Adam is of the Earth. ~ (but) ~ Jesus is the Lord from Heaven.
#2. Adam is natural. ~ (but) ~ Jesus is spiritual.
#3. Adam was created as a living soul. ~ (but) ~ Jesus was created to be a life giving Spirit.
#4. Adam brought death ~ (but) ~ Jesus brought life.
(For by one many shall die and by one many shall live).
#.5. Adam is of the old world of death. ~ (but) ~ Jesus is of the new world of life (with no death).

As for Samson: Well, I believe there are similarities between Samson and Jesus that answer my point above. Please see #2.

#1. Samson and Jesus both were humiliated in front of others as a public display.
#2. Samson and Jesus both were blind in some way. (Jesus was blinded to to having all knowledge).
#3. Samson and Jesus both outstretched their arms so as to save their people & defeat evil.

ok, so you agree Jesus had to learn because He came through the flesh...
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Yes.

I never said He considered it.. Why put words in my mouth ? I said He had to learn what sin was, because Jesus came through the flesh as a child. He had all the power and wanted for nothing, He knew His purpose. External and internal is your perception. The questions were asked, it was not in His will to do so. He knows what evil is, He wanted no part of it... Ever
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I said this because you appeared to be siding with others here who did not agree with me. But perhaps this was more of the external and internal temptation issue (That you do not agree with that we should just lay to rest for now). If you believe Jesus was not capable of sin or thinking evil whatsoever (under any circumstance) you are on my side. I also believe there was no potential for Jesus to fail in His mission, too. He already predicted His death and resurrection and said these things to his disciples so that might believe in Him. I hope you agree, my friend.

In any event, may God bless you.
And please be well.
 
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Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Banned
#717
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
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#717
Funny you mention, Samson been on my mind heavy this week. I do agree with you mostly, He couldn't sin, He is the exact opposite of sin " pure righteousness ". You said you do agree that questions were asked though, and He answered them.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#718
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#718
Brainfreeze said:
Funny you mention, Samson been on my mind heavy this week. I do agree with you mostly, He couldn't sin, He is the exact opposite of sin " pure righteousness ". You said you do agree that questions were asked though, and He answered them.
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I love the story of Samson. In 2 Corinthians 4:6-12 it mentions how the light of Christ lives in earthen vessels (us). What you may or may not know is that this a parallel of Gideon and his army of 300 who took clay jars with torches (i.e. light) inside them to surprise the enemy in winning the battle, but there is also another Old Testament parallel that the Lord showed me personally involving this New Testament passage, too.

Just like there was 300 men in Gideon's army.
Samson had 300 foxes.

Samson took 300 foxes and tied their tails together and it caught the enemy's fields on fire. Scripture tells us we are to be as wise as serpents and and as innocent as doves (Matthew 10:16). Foxes are sly, crafty, or wise in the way they do things. This is a parallel. We are the foxes who are all tied to one another in Christ (i.e. one body) who are to deliver our bodies to be burned (1 Corinthians 13:3).

So between the story of Gideon and Samson, we see a picture of how we are to broken as a clay vessel or burned like a wise fox for the sake of Christ. We are to shine forth his light and let it shine out the darkness which destoys the enemy.

Also, would recommend checking out the song titled "Samson" by Lower Lights Burning, too.



Samson | lower lights burning
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#719
#719
I think someone needs to study the Bible WITH some elders. These thoughts and opinions about Christ are very heretical. Seeing how far you have convinced yourself of your own understanding, there is no one here you can possibly respect enough to learn from. Go seek some help from the elders of your church body. When you say that Jesus had no free will, you disrespect His SUBMISSION to the Will of the Father. It takes a will in order to submit. Please go and speak to someone faithful that you personally know and respect, and ask them about your doctrine.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#720
#720
I cannot even express in words how disrespectful the idea of this thread is to the work of our Lord Jesus Christ. You act like it was not WORK at all.
 
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