Christians and military service

[BELIEVE]

But isn't service to the military directly involved in murder and the fulfillment of corrupt worldly government agendas?

I've begun to question if it is right for Christians to serve in the military. Most people I know say that it is alright but most people I know don't really examine the issue in depth.

this is true dear brother ecclesiastik.

it is murder no matter how you look at it... god says so.

yet i know christians who have joined to further their education and took on jobs and served in the military as to be pastors, electronic specialists, and mechanics.

and each stated their beliefs and where they stood and refused any kind of weapon that could destroy a life and refused to be in the battlefields.

but i say this to that dear brother... doesn't god's holy word say not to be partakers of others sins for then you sin along with them as well.

1 timothy 5:22
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

ephesians 5:1-12
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
[SUP]9 [/SUP](For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

god bless

 

[Toska]

Would you call the police and let them kill someone breaking in or just pray and let them come in?

I am going a little off topic here but, what about the police? I ask because my husband is a police officer. He has never killed anyone but, what if he does in order to protect an innocent citizen? Would that keep him from heaven?

 

[danschance]

Where would Israel be today if they had no defense forces? Where would we be if we had none?

The bible never forbids military service. David was a warrior was highly praised of God. On the other hand if your own conscious is against joining, then do not do it because we are told to not violate it. There have been times when immoral orders were given to US military. In the New Testament Jesus speaks to soldiers and never speaks a single word against them or their duties. I can only conclude that Military service is honorable before God, but not all soldiers act with honor.

In Vietnam, as many as 500 unarmed civilians were executed by 26 American soldiers in what was called the My Lai Massacre. Among the dead were women, children and infants. They shot live stock and burned the village to the ground. Only two men from a helicopter crew tried to stop the killings. I have often wondered if there were no Christians among the US soldiers to protest the massacre? Christians soldiers should never obey an unjust order.

 

[directline2iam]

I have heard very differing opinions from various people.

My question is: Is it morally acceptable for Christians to join (or stay in) the armed forces?

Some people say yes because John the Baptist never told the soldiers to quit their job and there are some cases of early Christians who were employed by the Roman military.

Others say no because the early church as a whole tended to be against Christians joining the military.


What are your thoughts? For a little background, I am an Air Force avionics technician.

Matt 24:6"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things MUST take place, but that is not yet the end. 7"For nation will rise against ...

Romans 13:1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.…

 

[kote]

Is killing the same as murder?

If a bear is going to attack your child, are you going to kill it?

How about a man with a knife?

what about this commandment "thou shalt not kill"

 

[tripsin]

I have heard very differing opinions from various people.

My question is: Is it morally acceptable for Christians to join (or stay in) the armed forces?

Some people say yes because John the Baptist never told the soldiers to quit their job and there are some cases of early Christians who were employed by the Roman military.

Others say no because the early church as a whole tended to be against Christians joining the military.


What are your thoughts? For a little background, I am an Air Force avionics technician.

I would be interested is seeing the supportive verse(s). Thanks.

It is completely irrational to think that we could have a military to protect our Country and not have to 'kill' at some point in time. Should we not have a military at all? Then what?

I think it was a while back that San Francisco no longer allowed military recruitment on collage campuses. My first thought was, "What if S.F. was surprise attacked by a foreign military. I wonder who they would call to to help them?" Would they call the military to not kill anyone? Duh.

I think it is clear by the examples in Scripture that military mayhem is covered in a different way spiritually speaking.

Maybe Romans 13:1-7 helps to understand.

 

[posthuman]

what about this commandment "thou shalt not kill"

it's "thou shalt not murder"

רָצַח(H7523) properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder

1. to murder, slay, kill
   1. (Qal) to murder, slay
      1. premeditated
      2. accidental
      3. as avenger
      4. slayer (intentional) (participle)
   2. (Niphal) to be slain
   3. (Piel)
      1. to murder, assassinate
      2. murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
   4. (Pual) to be killed

not the same word as Ecclesiastes 3:3 "a time to kill"

הָרַג (H2026) to smite with deadly intent

1. to kill, slay, murder, destroy, murderer, slayer, out of hand
   1. (Qal)
      1. to kill, slay
      2. to destroy, ruin
   2. (Niphal) to be killed
   3. (Pual) to be killed, be slain

 

[Dwark]

what about this commandment "thou shalt not kill"

That is not the what it says, that is a heresy. Repent. And get a new bible, or several, and investigate the differences.

But even without that, you should be able to make the connection by seeing that God commanded many people to kill others.
Numbers 31:17-18, and the Canaanites, and the Amalekites, their men, women, children, infants, cattle, sheep, donkey. (This has gotten way to morbid to bring up the Shoite joke.)


Are you saying that God told people to sin?

Are you saying that God is the author of sin?

Are you calling God a sinner?

 

[tripsin]

what about this commandment "thou shalt not kill"

What do you think about all those in the Old Testament who the Lord directed into war? Anyone who thinks that our military should be a military without 'killing' is trying to be more righteous than God Himself. It's silly.

The Lord also tells us not to be fools. One has to protect his family and/or country.

 

[Dwark]

what about this commandment "thou shalt not kill"

You know that Paul was responsible for the imprisonment, torture, and death of Christians? Right? Is Paul going to hell?

 

[LovePink]

You know that Paul was responsible for the imprisonment, torture, and death of Christians? Right? Is Paul going to hell?

That's right. Moses, David and many more saints.

 

[reject-tech]

12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

It means that if you work in a tax office or power company, phone company and so on, taking payments and turning off meters, just do that and don't provoke the payers, cheat the system for your own gain, and so on.
It means that if you are a policeman, marine, and so on, just make your arrests, bust into compounds and do your job, but don't frisk girls the wrong way, don't spit on arabs, tease them in jail or G-bay, and so on.

Just do what your superiors ask and don't add to the horror. This way, you pass the accountability on to them.
For me personally I suppose if my superior tells me to add to the despair in some way, I should earnestly consider refusing at cost of death, court martial, loss of job and so on. I wouldn't want to have these jobs. Probably the only one that could arguably not be avoided would be getting drafted, but I'd try and dodge that too. I would dismiss national patriotism over heavenly patriotism when it comes down to it.
I think those instructions are for those who don't consider it so much, or have already got themselves into it.
"*sigh* what do we do now though John? We're already captains on the police force."

 

[tripsin]

But isn't service to the military directly involved in murder and the fulfillment of corrupt worldly government agendas?

I've begun to question if it is right for Christians to serve in the military. Most people I know say that it is alright but most people I know don't really examine the issue in depth.

Our country is still made up of about 85% Judeo-Christian values/believers. Can we assume that that would be about the same as those who have signed up for the military? So, if none of them signed up, what types would be left to do the job? And would they step up?

The U.S. has always tried to rebuild where they have had to do to war. And always come to the rescue when other countries experience natural disasters, even 'enemy' countries like Iran when they had earthquakes.

The depth of the issue must be, what happens to our loved ones if we leave them unprotected?

 

[kote]

You know that Paul was responsible for the imprisonment, torture, and death of Christians? Right? Is Paul going to hell?

no. paul was forgiven, is is with god

 

[tripsin]

I am going a little off topic here but, what about the police? I ask because my husband is a police officer. He has never killed anyone but, what if he does in order to protect an innocent citizen? Would that keep him from heaven?

Those who serve in that way, to protect the weak have a different standing before their Maker. People here are confusing evil, malicious acts by individuals against other individuals with honorable servants.

 

[BELIEVE]

You know that Paul was responsible for the imprisonment, torture, and death of Christians? Right? Is Paul going to hell?

dear brother dwark...

paul was a born again believer thus the name change from saul to the godly name of paul showing that he was no longer or partaker of the things of the world and was now in the hands of god almighty.

so then are you implying that paul was not forgiven for his sins in the past; when he was living ungodly; by our lord jesus christ upon his death.

also... did paul; after being born again; ever KILL ANYONE AGAIN... or PICK UP THE SWORD AGAIN out of anger or to protect himself.

better yet... are we not made into the very image of our lord jesus christ... for we are no longer of this world and we that are now in spirit our lord jesus christ on earth once more as the sons and daughters of god.

THEN DID OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST EVER KILL ANYONE OR PICK UP A WEAPON TO DEFEND HIMSELF FROM MURDERS OR THOSE WHO WANTED TO CAUSE HIM HARM.

NO NOT ONCE... and what did he do to those who tried... he simply walked away for it was not yet his time.

thus it fits to god's holy word... no weapon made by man shall prosper... just as paul wrote through the holy ghost of death were is your sting and grave were is your victory.

we are not of this world and should live accordingly to god's holy word and not of our own beliefs or opinions... and definitely be not of this world unrighteousness and its beliefs.

god bless

 

[LovePink]

Christ paid taxes.

There is a service that we are to do, protect & serve to me means "give unto Caesar" we must serve our country & protect the innocent. God understands the necessity of rule, government structure & authority, law.

Onward Christian soldier.

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:

The Justice system of civil affairs, worldly affairs is meant for good.

 

[JaumeJ]

Ariel Sharon's demise will only be a sign of the end times if he returns to office. No, that is not intended to be a joke. May our Father bless those he has left behind with understanding, love and Salvation in Yeshua, amen.

 

[posthuman]

You know that Paul was responsible for the imprisonment, torture, and death of Christians? Right? Is Paul going to hell?

iirc that was Saul not Paul

 

[LovePink]

iirc that was Saul not Paul

lol............