Christians and military service

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Oct 7, 2013
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Christian Warfare



Let’s examine some direct scriptures from Jesus and the apostles relating to war and enemies in general. We have all heard of the golden rule, some may not know this is a teaching of Jesus found at Mat. 7:12 which states: 12All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean“. Jesus did not say, do unto others as they do to you, but as you would like them to do to you. Granted this truly can be hard in today’s society, but remember if you want to be a Christian then you must obey scripture.
Jesus said of enemies:
Matthew 5:43-48: 43 YOU heard that it was said, You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU;
Jesus, our model for you to follow his steps closely (1 Pet. 2:21) said this; so how can a true Christian justify behaving any other way concerning his enemies. Jesus did not say that a Christian would not have enemies, but he clearly told us how he wanted us to treat our enemies.

The apostle Paul wrote at:
Romans 12:17-21 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.
It might be noted here too that Jehovah hates war, and will bring it to an end:
Psalm 46:9 * He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. Read at Isaiah 34:2: 2 For Jehovah has indignation against all the nations, and rage against all their army. He must devote them to destruction; he must give them to the slaughter. By destroying the nations and their armies at Armageddon, is how Jehovah will end war.

To contrast Christians with others a couple of scriptures come to mind, first lets look at John 13:34,35:
34 I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.
Did you notice how Christians would be identified, by the love they have among themselves. How does this play in with those who claim to be Christian, but kill their brothers in other lands?
Jesus said: Matthew 7:15-16 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheeps covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. These that appear to be Godlike but prove false to its power (2 Tim. 3:5) can be identified by their fruits”, that is the things they do. What fruits would identify Christians?:The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Real Christians however display the fruitages of the spirit, theres no room here for a Christian to engage in war.
What are Christian weapons?
Ephesians 6:13-17* 13 the complete suit of armor from God: Stand firm, with YOUR loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and with YOUR feet shod with the equipment of the good news of peace. 16 Above all things, take up the large shield of faith, with which YOU will be able to quench all the wicked ones burning missiles. 17 Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, Gods word,
Here the Bible pointed out the weapons a Christian would have, not the incomplete, but the complete suit of armor from God, no room for aggression here. Another scripture showing Christians will not fight: 2 Tim. 2:23 24 But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth,

Consider; if you believe that we are living in the last days as many do, then true Christians would be “walking in God’s Paths” and “beating their swords into plowshares” Isa. 2:4. Also if it is the last days then satan and his hoards have “been going forth to the kings of the entire earth to gather them together” to battle God. (Rev. 16:14) Sure wouldn’t want to be in the military then; actually fighting against God, and His forces!

Some quotations from reference books:Those Known as Early Christians. Early Christians refused to serve in the Roman army, in both the legions and auxilia, considering such service as wholly incompatible with the teachings of Christianity. Says Justin Martyr, of the second century C.E., in his “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (CX): “We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, p. 254)

In his treatise “The Chaplet, or De Corona” (XI), when discussing “whether warfare is proper at all for Christians,” Tertullian (c. 200 C.E.) argued from Scripture the unlawfulness even of a military life itself, concluding, “I banish from us the military life.”—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. III, pp. 99, 100.

“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” (The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333) “It will be seen presently that the evidence for the existence of a single Christian soldier between 60 and about 165 A.D. is exceedingly slight; . . . up to the reign of Marcus Aurelius at least, no Christian would become a soldier after his baptism.” (The Early Church and the World, by C. J. Cadoux, 1955, pp. 275, 276) “In the second century, Christianity . . . had affirmed the incompatibility of military service with Christianity.” (A Short History of Rome, by G. Ferrero and C. Barbagallo, 1919, p. 382) “The behavior of the Christians was very different from that of the Romans. . . . Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers.” (Our World Through the Ages, by N. Platt and M. J. Drummond, 1961, p. 125) “The first Christians thought it was wrong to fight, and would not serve in the army even when the Empire needed soldiers.” (The New World’s Foundations in the Old, by R. and W. M. West, 1929, p. 131)


“The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service.” (“Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177,” by F. P. G. Guizot in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by R. Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246) “While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defense of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.

Look at a parallel prophecy of Mat. chap 24 found at Revelation Chap 6. Jesus gave the signs of his enthronement in Mat. 24; the horses of Rev. 6 shows the fulfillment of this and what to expect. Notice v2, the rider of this horse a white horse signifying purity (Strong‘s G#3022) was given a bow signifying a weapon of warfare, also he was given a crown which means he was made a king. The prophecy at Gen. 3:15 revealed that God’s seed (Jesus) would eventually crush satan and his seed, easily this king can be identified as Jesus at his crowning as king. Notice what he went on to do as king, he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. What was the result of this Rev. 12:7-9, 12 shows us.

Now with satan cast to the earth, the rider of the red horse begins his ride. Is this rider a good person? No! He takes peace away from the earth; how, by an implement of warfare, the sword. As we seen earlier Christians have beat their swords into plowshares, so if a person hasn’t then obviously he is a servant of this horse. Who is the rider of this horse? Rev. 12:12 identifies this one as satan, do we want to follow satan? Not me!

Reiterating again that the demons are gathering the kings of the earth for battle against the one sitting on the throne of God, Rev.16:14-16. And obviously then these armies will be wiped out Isa.34:2. Which side will you choose? As for me and my household we shall do what Jehovah asks! Josh. 24:15.

In conclusion then what have we learned? Initially God sanctioned some wars, when nations stood in the way of God
s people Israel doing the will of God. After God sent His son to the earth Jesus gave us a new commandment, namely you must love your neighbor as yourself found at Mat. 22:38. Jesus said to love your enemies, do to others the way you would have it done to you, especially to those in the faith. The apostles did not participate in the world’s wars, in fact they were no part of this world (John17:14) they put their faith in God and His kingdom as being the only solution to war, and all of man kinds problems, as do true Christians today. Paul summed it up best when he got right to the point of Christians and war when he wrote at 2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things.

Yes if a person wants to be a real Christian, not just a claimed one, he will truly follow scripture and not wage war according to the flesh”.

Which side do you want to be on? [email protected]
 
E

Ecclesiastik

Guest
How about if you turn a blind eye? Is that ok with God? Your stance is from reprobate thinking.

I already provided the verse for capital punishment and/or self governing "government", this is why we have laws and a Justice system, a country with military & police.

Genesis 9:6 kjv "And God said"
It seems that government has the ability to do things that Christians do not. For example, the government/legal system biblically has the right to avenge.

However, the Bible says that Christians do NOT have the right to avenge- that we are to turn the other cheek, feed our enemies, and pray for them.

It appears, from this, that Christians and the government don't have a whole lot of common ground to walk on.
 
Sep 3, 2012
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I see a lot of people say if you kill you burn and won't make it to heaven smh..... Moses killed, David killed, Samson killed plenty. I'm pretty sure these people made It into heaven.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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I see a lot of people say if you kill you burn and won't make it to heaven smh..... Moses killed, David killed, Samson killed plenty. I'm pretty sure these people made It into heaven.
People don't understand the difference in murder and self defense. I have said it on here many times before. If someone was to break in my home threatening the life of my child I would fight to defend him. Even if I had no choice but to kill to protect my child. Not just let them murder my son. How would that make me a good parent to allow someone to kill when I could prevent it?

I also have a sign on my door saying "protected by second amendment security" Youd have to be a complete moron to break in my home. Youre warned as you walk up to the door...
 
Sep 3, 2012
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Murder is murder. Jesus should have used self defense then...
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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Murder is murder. Jesus should have used self defense then...
So if you are out driving today, and lose control of your car and hit another vehicle and kill the driver are you a murderer?
 
Sep 3, 2012
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Yea they'll charge me with man slaughter lol
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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So if you are out driving today, and lose control of your car and hit another vehicle and kill the driver are you a murderer?
Manslaughter. The penalty for which is that one had to remain inside that city until the High Prist died...

Num 35:6 "Now among the cities which you will give to the Levites you shall appoint six cities of refuge, to which a manslayer may flee. And to these you shall add forty-two cities.

Num 35:11 then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you, that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there.
Num 35:12 They shall be cities of refuge for you from the avenger, that the manslayer may not die until he stands before the congregation in judgment.
Num 35:13 And of the cities which you give, you shall have six cities of refuge.
Num 35:14 You shall appoint three cities on this side of the Jordan, and three cities you shall appoint in the land of Canaan, which will be cities of refuge.
Num 35:15 These six cities shall be for refuge for the children of Israel, for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them, that anyone who kills a person accidentally may flee there.

Num 35:22 'However, if he pushes him suddenly without enmity, or throws anything at him without lying in wait,
Num 35:23 or uses a stone, by which a man could die, throwing it at him without seeing him, so that he dies, while he was not his enemy or seeking his harm,
Num 35:24 then the congregation shall judge between the manslayer and the avenger of blood according to these judgments.
Num 35:25 So the congregation shall deliver the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall return him to the city of refuge where he had fled, and he shall remain there until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil.

If you accidentally killed someone, you were not free to go, you must remain inside the city of refuge until the death of the High Priest.

Num 35:26 But if the manslayer at any time goes outside the limits of the city of refuge where he fled,
Num 35:27 and the avenger of blood finds him outside the limits of his city of refuge, and the avenger of blood kills the manslayer, he shall not be guilty of blood,
Num 35:28 because he should have remained in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest. But after the death of the high priest the manslayer may return to the land of his possession.

God takes life very seriously.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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Manslaughter. The penalty for which is that one had to remain inside that city until the High Prist died...

Num 35:6 "Now among the cities which you will give to the Levites you shall appoint six cities of refuge, to which a manslayer may flee. And to these you shall add forty-two cities.

Num 35:11 then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you, that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there.
Num 35:12 They shall be cities of refuge for you from the avenger, that the manslayer may not die until he stands before the congregation in judgment.
Num 35:13 And of the cities which you give, you shall have six cities of refuge.
Num 35:14 You shall appoint three cities on this side of the Jordan, and three cities you shall appoint in the land of Canaan, which will be cities of refuge.
Num 35:15 These six cities shall be for refuge for the children of Israel, for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them, that anyone who kills a person accidentally may flee there.

Num 35:22 'However, if he pushes him suddenly without enmity, or throws anything at him without lying in wait,
Num 35:23 or uses a stone, by which a man could die, throwing it at him without seeing him, so that he dies, while he was not his enemy or seeking his harm,
Num 35:24 then the congregation shall judge between the manslayer and the avenger of blood according to these judgments.
Num 35:25 So the congregation shall deliver the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall return him to the city of refuge where he had fled, and he shall remain there until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil.

If you accidentally killed someone, you were not free to go, you must remain inside the city of refuge until the death of the High Priest.

Num 35:26 But if the manslayer at any time goes outside the limits of the city of refuge where he fled,
Num 35:27 and the avenger of blood finds him outside the limits of his city of refuge, and the avenger of blood kills the manslayer, he shall not be guilty of blood,
Num 35:28 because he should have remained in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest. But after the death of the high priest the manslayer may return to the land of his possession.

God takes life very seriously.
Yes, he does take life seriously, but for someone to die in an accident as I have posted is far different than me walking into your house and shooting you in the head. THAT is murder.

A few years ago my cousin was driving in Memphis. A car pulled out in front of her. She struck the car and it went up in flames. The driver of the other car was killed, and my cousin survived. Would you call her a murderer?
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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"If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed.
Ex 22:2-3
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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Can anyone show me where in the bible where it says we are to surrender the lives of our friends, family, and loved ones in a deadly attack?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Yes, he does take life seriously, but for someone to die in an accident as I have posted is far different than me walking into your house and shooting you in the head. THAT is murder.

A few years ago my cousin was driving in Memphis. A car pulled out in front of her. She struck the car and it went up in flames. The driver of the other car was killed, and my cousin survived. Would you call her a murderer?
Never said that she was, God calls it manslaying and it still carries a penalty. The penalty is not death, but one had to live in a city of refuge until the death of the High Priest.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Can anyone show me where in the bible where it says we are to surrender the lives of our friends, family, and loved ones in a deadly attack?
Uh, not sure what you mean there.
 
L

LClark

Guest
Christian Warfare


...Jesus gave us a new commandment, namely you must love your neighbor as yourself found at Mat. 22:38.
An excellent post, I just want to point out one (common) confusion. Jesus' "new commandment" was to "Love one another (our fellow Christians) just as I have loved you...by this will all men know that you are me disciples" John 13:34f. This commandment is repeated twice again in ch. 15.

The commandment to "love your neighbor as yourself" (the second Great Commandment) is, of course, found in the Old Testament and is broader.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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They most certainly can. Vehicular Manslaughter. Possibly murder if the purp was drunk.

Can anyone show me where in the bible where it says we are to surrender the lives of our friends, family, and loved ones in a deadly attack?
We aren't really talking about that though. We haven't defended the lives of our friends, family, or loved ones since WWII. Every war after that has been politically charged, lucrative, or geographically tactical. There is a reason why we leave military bases wherever we have been to war.

If a COUNTRY wants us dead, by all means, it is my personal opinion that you are ok to fight for you and yours.

If the equivalent of a street gang wants us dead half-way around the world, and are able to bring more and more members in because of our military presence in their country....yeah not so much. That's murder.

If China invaded us I would join a militia in a heartbeat to fight them off.

If the US invades Muhamid's country, of course he's going to join a militia (Al-Qaeda) in a heartbeat to fight us off.

It would be the equivalent of the KKK bombing something in China and in return China invades the US and puts us under lock and key. Of course we wouldn't tolerate it.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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They most certainly can. Vehicular Manslaughter. Possibly murder if the purp was drunk.
I was speaking clearly of an accident. Not foolishly drinking and driving which everyone knows could easily result in death.


We aren't really talking about that though. We haven't defended the lives of our friends, family, or loved ones since WWII. Every war after that has been politically charged, lucrative, or geographically tactical. There is a reason why we leave military bases wherever we have been to war.

If a COUNTRY wants us dead, by all means, it is my personal opinion that you are ok to fight for you and yours.

If the equivalent of a street gang wants us dead half-way around the world, and are able to bring more and more members in because of our military presence in their country....yeah not so much. That's murder.

If China invaded us I would join a militia in a heartbeat to fight them off.

If the US invades Muhamid's country, of course he's going to join a militia (Al-Qaeda) in a heartbeat to fight us off.

It would be the equivalent of the KKK bombing something in China and in return China invades the US and puts us under lock and key. Of course we wouldn't tolerate it.
According to some WW2 was wrong as well, and as far as "we aren't really talking about that". Well, I am. I see what you are saying, and I totally agree that many(if not all) recent wars are driven for the wrong reasons, but seems that many here think any type of killing isn't justifiable. So that is why I asked the question I did. Especially since the bible tells us that if we don't take care of our family then we are worse than an unbeliever. I am sure that include protecting them as well.